Now the endless subject as to why kit manufacturers don't supply complete decals (i.e. including swastikas) has been hammered out on forum after forum. Not much (probably) remains to be said on the subject although, this is something that may surprise many people...

I've just spent the last 10 days on vacation in Berlin, and as a welcome change from the (ahem) cultural stuff as insisted on by SWMBO, I spent a morning wandering about the excellent German Technical Museum where they have a rather nice section on aviation.

Now, I must admit to be surprised at the exhibits - which DO include swastikas:

Here are a couple of examples - an Me109 and the tail section of a JU88:





Now, the question is simple. If a (German) museum has the maturity to put it's aircraft on display with swastikas, would it REALLY cause unimaginable hassle to the kit manufacturers?

Just today's thought

For a moment I thought someone had slipped up, check the profiles posted on the Eduard site for the new Bf 110, particularly the one on the upper right. Perhaps things are changing as you have said to exhibit more maturity

http://www.eduard.cz/projects/Bf110E/pics/camos.jpg

Heretofore, I believe manufacturers were blacking or blanking out all Swastikas in their ad materials ?

Hi Guys

As most serious modellers (what ever that is) I also find it most annoying to hide the Hakenkreuz on my German Aircraft models on show displays here in Germany --- even on our exhibition in the Luftwaffenmuseum Berlin (which is from 15-17 September this year ... shameless ad, I know) we are not allowed to show it although the originals wear the sign just behind us.

BUT plastic scale models are supposed to be toys and thus a special care for the youth has to be considered by the judges. That is why it was prohibited in the 1970ies.

Recently there was a case where a modeller was sued because his R/C model wears the swastika. In several instances he was finally spoken free, because the model involves a lot of work, knowledge and money and thus was more a work of craftsmenship or even art and not a toy. ...

I do not think there is a chance that the iurisdiction will change in a forseable future.

I hope I did not make too much mistakes, as this is not the vocabulary I use often

best wishes

Steffen

You can hide the swastika, but that will not change history, or prevent future relapses. Covering up the swastika and repairing the political environment, is just like treating the symptoms, not the cause of a sickness.

Here in the US, there is much debate about burning the flag. If those proponets of flag burning know it will piss people off, they will continue to do it.

So what is my point on this subject-Those who do not learn from the past are doomed to repeat it.

I have always considered any ban on any symbol or symbolic act, be it banning swastika's or flag burning, to be a violation of freedom of speech. I find it interesting that Germany, a country which made such a sharp break from its totalitarian past, would continue to violate freedom of speech in this respect.

Not only is it morally wrong, it is just plain idiotic. Just because someone puts a swastika on his model airplane doesn't mean he is a Nazi. It is the context that matters more than anything, and aircraft modelers want to create the most accurate replica's they can, not advertise Nazism.

Phew, here we go again on this subject

The freedom of speech is one of the most basic fundations of democracy and a well functioning democracy is the best guarantee that nazis, communists, or something similar does not get a revival again.

Of course swastikas should be allowed on models or anywhere else. Banning something just makes it more interesting for certain types of young people.

In Denmark the Nazi party is legal and there is a nazi party. I believe they have 10-20 members and as the swastika is not illegal they can go around with their flags if they want. The party has existed for many years. However, nobody is joining the party.

It should be legal to put swastikas on aircraft. Otherwise what about the Russian slogans? "For Stalin", "Crush the facists invaders", "For the revolution", "For Soviet Estonia" etc. Should they also be banned? I think a lot of people in the Baltic countries would have more problems with "For Stalin" or just "USSR" than a swastika on the tail plane. Who should decide what is acceptable or not?

Never forget history, or we will just repeat it.

First of all, I wasn't trying to make any kind of point about freedom of speech whatsoever, rather a VERY positive observation about the mature attitude demonstrated by the directors of the DTM in Berlin.

@Steffan - regarding the Luftwaffenmuseum Berlin , I was only told about two days before leaving, Otherwise I would have DEFINITELY visited it. For some curious reason, it ISN'T listed in ANY of the guidebooks - a rather annoying ommision

If anyone plans a visit to Berlin, I really suggest they get directions to visit it - from what I was told it's really excellent.

Hi Jim and all others

ther are some reasons when showing the Swastika is allowed. i won't bore your with a translation of §§ 86 and 86a of our Strafgesetzbuch (criminal code) those who are interested will find the text on the web.

Among the allowed cases is "Aufklärung oder Berichterstattung über die Vorgänge des Zeitgeschehens oder der militärhistorischen und wissenschaftlichen Forschung" roughly: "education or reporting about events of the day or military-historical and scientific research" .. so museums are allowed to do it. Showing pictures in historical articles is also ok ... critical are e.g. profiles. As I mentioned above, scale models are banned because they are considered as toys.

As for the LW museum. Maybe it was left out from the guide because it is a little outside of Berlin (Gatow is near Berlin-Spandau). For those interested in a visit, it has a website: http://www.luftwaffenmuseum.de/ ...
details about the IPMS Deutschland show can be found here: Gatow 2007

best wishes

Steffen