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World War II: Germany
Aircraft of Germany in WWII.
Hosted by Rowan Baylis
FW 190D9 Dora Red 1 of the JV44, Munchen-Riem
uproar
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Nebraska, United States
Joined: April 09, 2005
KitMaker: 99 posts
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Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 04:58 PM UTC
Greetings! Here is my FW-190D9 Dora Red 1 of the JV44, on its finished base, about as it appeared prior to capture at Munchen-Riem in May, 1945, following its abandonment--it's the Tamiya kit, 1/48 with EagleCal decals, Aires cockpit with photoetched seatbelts, Eagle Editions resin prop, gun cover, cowling, wheels, Eduard PE landing flaps, Cutting Edge control surfaces, brass tubing for the wing and fuselage gun barrels, Model Design Construction resin wheelbay/engine set (with solder wire for hoses and plumbing), Moskit exhausts, painted with Color of Eagles RLM acrylic colors, weathered with Tamiya Smoke acrylic, Van Gogh oil paints, and Tamiya weathering powders....antenna wire is fishing line, threaded through tiny .0078" drilled holes and CA glued. I also used brass wire for brake lines, wrapped with thin strips of styrene. The original Red 1 shows some substantial fire damage of the windscreen (essentially blackened), as well as the starboard fuselage, just forward of the cockpit, in all known photographs of this portion of the aircraft following capture--this I have attempted to recreate, as well as the splinter damage to the propeller blade and the overpainted white spiral on black on the propeller hub. Apparently, the fire may have been deliberately set in an attempt to destroy the craft to keep it out of Allied hands. The chipped paint was done with Tamiya and Prismacolor silver fine paint markers. The starter cart is Verlinden, painted with Color of Eagles RLM02 and weathered with Tamiya and Bragdon weathering pastels to give the appearance of extended neglect, and the oil drums and jerry cans are Tamiya. The base is the Just Plane Stuff Luftwaffe Hardstand, painted with Model Master Wood color acrylic and then washed with various shades of Umber oils, weathered with pastels, and liberally stained with Gunze "oil" and streaked with pastels to represent tire marks. Various shades of Poly-Scale acrylic dirt and mud color, as well as Woodland Scenics foliage, were used on the earthen portions of the base. I wanted to include some figures--American GI's, hanging around and posing for photos, but was unable to find any appropriate figures that were well detailed.

Anyway, I thought the base turned out pretty well--I believe it does look like old, weathered wood.



What do you think? Any critique is welcome...Thank you!





























































alpha_tango
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Germany
Joined: September 07, 2005
KitMaker: 5,609 posts
AeroScale: 5,231 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 07:54 PM UTC
Hi Rory

Filthy model .... I think you did a good job reproducing the plane ... although there is something that I do not like about the dirt .. but as I cannot nail it down, it must be something on my side ...

some remarks:

1. the canopy looks strange. it just sits wrong ...
2. the antenna wire should lay on the fuselage. The blown hood with had no retraction mechanism for the wire when in aft position
3. The wheels also look wrong .. did you change them (Tamiyas are way too small and thats how they look on your model) and the angle is also a little off, but that could be a misinterpretation on my side

... as I said all in all a good job!

best wishes

Steffen
Roxter
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Rigas, Latvia
Joined: July 04, 2007
KitMaker: 268 posts
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Posted: Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 11:04 PM UTC
I think you little overdone that weathering (the kind of problem that oftenly can be noticed with my models) - I would only recommend using tamiya weathering powders on a/c wheels only.

I've also noticed that exhaust pipes are placed and lean out from the board too far (I guess that can because of Moskit pipes that need little modifications before placing them on the model).

I'm not sure about the angle of flaps - they seems to be opened too wide..

What I love about the subject is that diorama it's placed on! Wonderful and looks quite realistic!
alpha_tango
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Germany
Joined: September 07, 2005
KitMaker: 5,609 posts
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Posted: Friday, November 16, 2007 - 12:09 AM UTC
Hi Arseny

I think you are right about the exhausts but I think the Flaps are ok, when assuming the cables were destroyed...

best wishes

Steffen
Roxter
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Rigas, Latvia
Joined: July 04, 2007
KitMaker: 268 posts
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Posted: Friday, November 16, 2007 - 12:53 AM UTC
Steffen, it really might be so. I found this pic through google pics, that shows that at them moment Allies took over Munchen-Riem the "Red 1" flaps had different condition. Although I understand that some of the soldiers or engineers might have tried repositioning the flaps.

Roxter
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Rigas, Latvia
Joined: July 04, 2007
KitMaker: 268 posts
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Posted: Friday, November 16, 2007 - 01:10 AM UTC
As for the exhaust pipes, found this pics using Google Image Search:


(I'm aware it's restoration project although Eagle Editions is the "experten" in the field of late war Doras or Kurfursts, so I tend to trust restoration projects they're involved)
uproar
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Nebraska, United States
Joined: April 09, 2005
KitMaker: 99 posts
AeroScale: 25 posts
Posted: Friday, November 16, 2007 - 09:10 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Rory

Filthy model .... I think you did a good job reproducing the plane ... although there is something that I do not like about the dirt .. but as I cannot nail it down, it must be something on my side ...

some remarks:

1. the canopy looks strange. it just sits wrong ...
2. the antenna wire should lay on the fuselage. The blown hood with had no retraction mechanism for the wire when in aft position
3. The wheels also look wrong .. did you change them (Tamiyas are way too small and thats how they look on your model) and the angle is also a little off, but that could be a misinterpretation on my side

... as I said all in all a good job!

best wishes

Steffen



Thanks for the input...the wheels are actually Eagle Editions, which are more correctly to scale and a bit larger than the Tamiya wheels. The antenna wire is the proper length, unretracted, but I just couldn't get it to lie against the fuselage--I used fishing line, which is probably too stiff--should have used thread. One thing about the wheels I only just now noticed, is that the tires on the "Red 1" in the old photographs appear to be smooth, and mine have a defined tread--small detail, but I never noticed before.

Regarding the weathering--my impression from the photographs in the Jerry Crandall book is that the "Red 1" and other aircraft on the field did have a heavily weathered, neglected look about them. It is known that the aircraft at Munchen-Riem had been abandoned for some time, at least a month or two, before the Allies arrived to capture the field. I tried to convey that particularly in the heavily weathered starter cart. It had actually (unseasonably) snowed in the area just a few days before the field was captured in May, 1945, and was known to be a rather wet Spring. The pilots and crew of the JV 44 had actually tossed grenades into the engines of the Me262's before abandoning the field, to render them useless....I have heard that several of Galland's men cried when this happened.

One thing I would have loved to have reproduced is the dolly device that appears under the tail of the "Red 1" in the photographs. The wheels of the dolly are rather large, larger than the aircraft's wheels, and have an unusual 5-spoked configuration. I was unable to find any good enough close up photos to scratch-build from.

alpha_tango
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Germany
Joined: September 07, 2005
KitMaker: 5,609 posts
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Posted: Friday, November 16, 2007 - 08:40 PM UTC
Hi Rory

O.k. .. so my impression about the wheels must be wrong .. still it looks strange to my eye

Compared to Arseny's picture the canopy is also in the right place it just has the problem that it does not follow the fuselage like the real thing.

Regarding wheathering .... this depends very much on personal taste so take my comment as you wish, but I also think it is a little heavy. I suggest haveing a look in various military sites and forums. For my taste the effect is not overdone, but you used the "wrong" colours ... in particular the area around the pit looks unnatural to me... as I said no critique but my impression

best regards

Steffen
uproar
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Nebraska, United States
Joined: April 09, 2005
KitMaker: 99 posts
AeroScale: 25 posts
Posted: Saturday, November 17, 2007 - 02:16 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Rory

O.k. .. so my impression about the wheels must be wrong .. still it looks strange to my eye

Compared to Arseny's picture the canopy is also in the right place it just has the problem that it does not follow the fuselage like the real thing.

Regarding wheathering .... this depends very much on personal taste so take my comment as you wish, but I also think it is a little heavy. I suggest haveing a look in various military sites and forums. For my taste the effect is not overdone, but you used the "wrong" colours ... in particular the area around the pit looks unnatural to me... as I said no critique but my impression

best regards

Steffen



I did seem to have some slight fit problems with the canopy--I do concur that it does not fit quite right. What I was going for on the fuselage, on the starboard side just forward of the cockpit, was a representation of the burned-out area that resulted from the apparent cockpit fire that was probably deliberately set just before the Germans abandoned the area. I tried to use some restraint, but probably used too much, as the smoke damage visible in the actual photograph (from the Crandall book) was actually quite a bit heavier than I represented, with big, dark black streaks. I think most builds I have seen of this plane don't really try to reproduce how it looked when it was captured, after it had been burned, incapacitated and sat around in the rain and elements, unmaintained, for a month or two. The fire damage has been assumed to be a "cockpit fire", but I've seen photographs of GI's sitting in the cockpit posing for photos...perhaps it's just me, but I really wouldn't think that a nasty, burned-out, charred cockpit would be very inviting for a photo-op....unless perhaps you were wearing mechanic's overalls. Also, it looks like there were quite a bit more chipped paint areas, scratches, and wear, on the port side especially, ahead of the cockpit, which I did not really represent.

Actually, after I had converted the engine compartment to the open compartment that the FW 190D-9 was known for, and installed the engine, I did encountered some substantial fit problems at the wing roots--quite a gap that needed filling. I think the aftermarket Jumo engine was the cause.

Thank you--I do appreciate the input. I built this aircraft last year, and it was the first plane I built since high school, about 27 years.
alpha_tango
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Germany
Joined: September 07, 2005
KitMaker: 5,609 posts
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Posted: Saturday, November 17, 2007 - 04:18 AM UTC
Rory

I appreciate your inputs very much! I think you are right that most people try to build their models how it would have lookred in operation and not sitting abandoned on a field ...

One last comment to this model: YOU should be happy with it .. that is all that matters! If you think you have achieve the effect you were aiming for it is perfectly alright ... if not, try something new or change old techniques. Of course everyone gets some comments (negative and positive) if he places his models in public .. be it the I-net or a model show - but in the end it is your model ...

best wishes

Steffen
uproar
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Nebraska, United States
Joined: April 09, 2005
KitMaker: 99 posts
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Posted: Saturday, November 17, 2007 - 04:57 AM UTC
Thank you! I am always open to learn more from others.

Actually, some time after I finished the model, I happened across a German publication, "Luftwaffe im Focus", No. 7, which had some great, recently discovered, never-before-published color photos of the "Red 1" at Munchen-Riem, which showed that the underside was definitely red and white (there had been some controversy about this earlier, that the underside could have been black and white, or even dark blue and white, which I think would have defeated the purpose), and that the red had extended up the forward, cowling area all the way up to the level of the exhausts--contrary to the pictures in the Crandall book on the subject. One of the photos is slightly blurry, showing a GI lighting a cigarette while standing in front of the aircraft (a rather odd posing), and the other was taken from a distance, behind the aircraft. I keep thinking there has to be more color photos taken at that time--one would think that the American soldiers would have thought such an unusual color scheme would have been quite an attraction for photographs. It is truly a pity that nobody seemed to be thinking about historical significance and posterity at the time--really a shame that the JV-44 planes were so quickly scrapped. They would have been so perfect in an Air Museum somewhere. It's interesting, in one of the photos, it appears that the fuel tank of the Red 1 had actually been pulled out, and is sitting on the ground in front of the plane--the GI lighting the cigarette is resting his foot on it (I suspect the inherent hazard of smoking near a large fuel tank probably didn't occur to him). It isn't clear if the tank was removed before or after the field was captured, but I doubt the Americans would have bothered to do so. I do wish I had seen that photo before I had built the model. I'm considering doing a 1/32 version of the same plane, with the Hasegawa kit--perhaps I will make the appropriate changes. The Hasegawa version is probably alot more accurate. The original Tamiya kit had some problems with the shape of the cowling and the size of the prop spinner, and the wheels were too small and the landing gear wasn't quite right....and of course the incorrectly enclosed engine compartment area, which was found in the FW190A aircraft, but not the D9, which had the open, cut out area in the wheel bays which made the engine visible from the outside. The Tamiya kit needed alot of work from a compulsive, accuracy freak like me.
FalkeEins
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England - South East, United Kingdom
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Posted: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 03:20 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I think most builds I have seen of this plane don't really try to reproduce how it looked when it was captured, after it had been burned, incapacitated and sat around in the rain and elements, unmaintained, for a month or two. .



.. I agree ...excellent work !
SGTJKJ
#041
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Kobenhavn, Denmark
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Posted: Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 08:00 PM UTC
Great work, Rory. The weathering might be a little too heavy, but if the plane is depicted some time after the war ended it could be fine.

Anyway, the airfield accessories look very old and rusty, so the Dore fits well in the diorama.

Thanks for sharing
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