_GOTOBOTTOM
World War II: France
French aircraft of WWII
Hosted by Rowan Baylis
French WW2 colors - Acrylics?
Emeritus
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Uusimaa, Finland
Joined: March 30, 2004
KitMaker: 2,845 posts
AeroScale: 1,564 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 04:35 AM UTC
Hello,
Calling French aircraft experts!

Some time ago, I made a bargain in the last IPMS open happening, Tamiya's Dewoitine D.520 for 10€.
Now I'd really appreciate some paint tips. Preferably in acrylic form.
Is there any other specifically made French colors other than the new WEM enamel, or mixing guides?

As I did a bit of searching, Vallejo's model air seems to such colors, as only dark earth from the seven listed colors is mixed from two other colors. Does anyone have an idea of how accurate these are?

http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/colorcharts/stuff_eng_colorcharts_france.htm
This paint chart from IPMS Stockholm lists mixing ratios from Humbrol's and direct matches from Polly S.
How are those Polly S paints (Acrylics? Accurate?). If yes, what would be the best places to order?

Also, are there any usable comprehensive walkarounds in the web, or do I have to start bookhunting?
Like this: http://pyperpote.tonsite.biz/pages/d520pag.html
Cockpit shots would be very useful too. And btw, do those paints on the plane like good reference?

Thanks in advance.


Edit:
Oh, I forgot the first time writing this.
About decals. The ones in my kit aren't the normal tamiya affair, but according to the sheet "invisa-clear", scale-master by Vitachrome. While they otherwise appear to be very nice, the red in the roundels is much too dark.
Where should I start looking replacements? What manufacturers make French decals, and which would you recommend? Also, should I get a sheet of roundels (I remember one being overviewed in some magazine a couple of years ago, but I can't remember the manufacturer), or a complete replacement sheet?
Antoni
_VISITCOMMUNITY
England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: June 03, 2006
KitMaker: 574 posts
AeroScale: 573 posts
Posted: Thursday, January 03, 2008 - 06:31 AM UTC
Czech company Agama have French colours in their range.
Emeritus
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Uusimaa, Finland
Joined: March 30, 2004
KitMaker: 2,845 posts
AeroScale: 1,564 posts
Posted: Saturday, January 05, 2008 - 12:54 AM UTC
Thanks. Looks like at least one Finnish online store is selling Agama.
Those acrylic paint and thinner bottles look quite like xtracrylics', any chance they're made by the same company?
I did a few searches for a paint chart and found this: http://www.ares.cz/katalog/agama/odst_fran.htm
It's not perfectly clear for me, are these French colors acrylics or enamels?
Also could somebody help me out with the Chez (did I spell it right?) language, and which colors would I need?
Antoni
_VISITCOMMUNITY
England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: June 03, 2006
KitMaker: 574 posts
AeroScale: 573 posts
Posted: Saturday, January 05, 2008 - 03:02 AM UTC
Those acrylic paint and thinner bottles look quite like xtracrylics', any chance they're made by the same company?

It is suspected that they make them. I only know the acrylics but according to their website they make enamels as well.

There are two types of thinner, spirit (alcohol) and water-based. I get the best results with the water-based. I suspect you can also thin with water but have not tried it. Tamiya thinner also works well but not as good as the Agama water-based. I tried the spirit thinner once and it clogged the airbrush. Seems to dry too quickly. As far as I can work out it is for special types of paint such as clear lacquers and/or cleaning the airbrush.


I did a few searches for a paint chart and found this: http://www.ares.cz/katalog/agama/odst_fran.htm
It's not perfectly clear for me, are these French colors acrylics or enamels?
Also could somebody help me out with the Chez (did I spell it right?) language, and which colors would I need.

Agama websites are: www.agama-model.cz and www.agamacolor.cz and are in English as well as Czech. (In Slavic languages cz = English ch, sz = English sh and ch = English h)

French colours: http://www.agama-model.cz/pracujese/zfrancie.htm

There is an explanation of where they are used. I should think you need F1,F3 & F5 for the upper surfaces and F4 underneath.

Mushroom published a book on the D.520 a few years ago that can still be found in some bookshops. There should be a walk-around in that.

Emeritus
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Uusimaa, Finland
Joined: March 30, 2004
KitMaker: 2,845 posts
AeroScale: 1,564 posts
Posted: Saturday, January 05, 2008 - 05:54 AM UTC
Now this is more like it. Thanks!
My searches didn't come out with the manufacturers site, weird. Not popular enough I guess.
Looks like I'll be needing paints F1-F5.
Two types of thinner? I noticed there's two types of acrylics, "blue line" and alcohol-based "red line", they're probably geared for them different types. When I get around to ordering them, I'll probably go with the water-based ones, I suspect the alcohol-based range dries quicker and clogs up airbrushes with equal ease.
Antoni
_VISITCOMMUNITY
England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: June 03, 2006
KitMaker: 574 posts
AeroScale: 573 posts
Posted: Saturday, January 05, 2008 - 07:19 AM UTC
I only found out about Agama because the Jadar shop in Warsaw have authentic Polish Air Force colours made by them. These are exclusive to the Jadar shop and not found in their published charts. I had not given much attention to their own website so I didn't know about the different kinds of paint they have as they are not available from Jadar. They have some other interesting products although their choice of English might be misleading at times. Airbrush putty - seems to be a filler/primer. I just discovered that if you click on the orange band at the top you will find the explanations of their products. Mostly it confirms what I had found by experience. Unfortunately I don't have a clue where you can get any of these extra products as their site does not sell them.

Alcohol based

Produced since we started the company, we call these colours alcohol as this is their key ingredient. Alcohol based colours are distinct from our two classical types of colours in several ways: they dry in 15-20 minutes, they will never clog in the airbrush nozzle, they can be cleaned from brushes, airbrushes or even models themselves with pure alcohol and have an unlimited shelf-life. Dried alcohol based colours can be dissolved with thinner. We currently offer approximately 120 shades in 10ml plastic bottles in the Alcohol Based range but are slowly expanding the variety of shades produced

Water based

Can be painted or sprayed onto a wide variety of materials including plastic, paper, wood, glass, metal and expanded polystyrene. The colours give an even consistency and have a glossy or silk matt surface, drying in 10-15 minutes. For easier application we recommend using our water based acrylic thinner. The colours do not affect the surface that they are used on, even if this surface has been painted with other brands. Water based acrylics can be cleaned from paintbrushes and airbrushes easily with Agama alcohol thinner. At present over 200 shades are offered in the Acrylic range but in due course we will add all of the shades from the large colour chart that are currently available as enamels.

Enamel

We produce 336 shades of classic enamels (65 basic series and 271 authentic series). The authentic series contains shades used as camouflage colours on airplanes, afv´s, uniforms and rolling stock from the First World War to present. The 300 plus colours represent all the shades in our easy reference colour chart. It is generally well known amongst modelers that the quality of enamel colours is unequalled and due to this they will always have a place in any good modeler’s inventory.

Water based thinner

Acrylic colours can be thinned using water but for optimum performance it is recommended that Agama acrylic thinner is employed, particularly for airbrush application. Agama acrylic colours can be diluted up to 50%. Agama Thinner ensures an even flow and adhesion, slows down the drying process, and prevents clogging of the airbrush.

Alcohol based thinner

This thinner should only be used for thinning Agama alcohol based colours.



If you are hapy using acrylics then I don't think you will have a problem with these. They seem very high quality with a lot of pigment and give good results. I've had not adverse results using Future/Klear or Humbol Matt Cote on them. They dry quickly but I find that after 24 hours they shrink right down to a thin layer.

Agama Polish Khaki amd Light Blue with Future/Klear gloss coat.





magnusf
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: May 02, 2006
KitMaker: 1,953 posts
AeroScale: 1,902 posts
Posted: Saturday, January 05, 2008 - 09:11 PM UTC
Hi all!

I too find the Agama paints a bit confusing and I don't really know which one of the varieties I have gotten hold of. The blue screw-on bottle cap indicates that it probably is the water based acrylic though!

I have tried them for a few months since I bought them at Jadar in October and they spray very well thinned with Tamiya thinner, or water for that matter. The ones I have used are RAF colours and I think they are spot-on colour-wise, to alter the contrast between the colours I have sometimes added a bit of Xtracrylix white. Unlike Xtracrylix they aren't gloss but they dry to a very even coating with a satin sheen.

Since they are intermixable with Xtracrylix, the paint jars are the same kind (but Agama's are smaller!) and smell the same (ain't I scientific ) I suspect they are made by the same manufacturer. A word on paint jar size: Agama comes in 10 ml jars while Xtracrylix jars contains 16 ml.

So, if you can get them from somewhere (Jadar?) I can thoroughly recommend them!

Regards

Magnus
Emeritus
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Uusimaa, Finland
Joined: March 30, 2004
KitMaker: 2,845 posts
AeroScale: 1,564 posts
Posted: Saturday, January 05, 2008 - 11:42 PM UTC
They're the same as xtracrylics? Great, I've been using xtracrylics for some time and really like them.
It appears that I don't even have to order from abroad, one toystore in claims in Finland to stock Agama products, I'll drop 'em an email and ask if they have what I need.
magnusf
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: May 02, 2006
KitMaker: 1,953 posts
AeroScale: 1,902 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 12:03 AM UTC
Do you have a link to that store? It might be an attractive option for me as well even if I am located across the Baltic Sea!

Regards

Magnus
Emeritus
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Uusimaa, Finland
Joined: March 30, 2004
KitMaker: 2,845 posts
AeroScale: 1,564 posts
Posted: Sunday, January 06, 2008 - 12:14 AM UTC
Sure, here it is.
http://www.kwesterlund.fi/
That's the main online store page. I've tried the search with "agama" without finding them, but this blog entry from November 2007 saying that they have Agama acrylics in stock with "more to follow".
http://kwesterlund.fi/blog/?postid=44
Perhaps they haven't updated the store yet.
 _GOTOTOP