I'm very new to building models and I was wondering if there is a good article to read about painting cockpits. I just got the Revell Spitfire Mk II 1-48. I figure it will be a good one to start with.
Also, I am brush painting all of my models until I determine if I'm dedicated to the hobby enough to get an airbrush. So do y'all have any recommendations as to what paints to use (acylic or enamels)? Should I thin the paint? Are there any brands that people get good results with? My first attempts at brush painting have not turned out too well and am trying not to get discouraged.
Any advice is greatly appreciated.
World War II
Discuss WWII and the era directly before and after the war from 1935-1949.
Discuss WWII and the era directly before and after the war from 1935-1949.
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Spitfire Mk II 1-48 Cockpit & Brush Painting
tsoenen
Joined: February 26, 2008
KitMaker: 10 posts
AeroScale: 4 posts
Posted: Monday, March 03, 2008 - 03:05 AM UTC
vanize
Joined: January 30, 2006
KitMaker: 1,954 posts
AeroScale: 1,163 posts
Posted: Monday, March 03, 2008 - 04:44 AM UTC
as far as painting the completed model, I would actually think about using the Tamiya spray paints (much better than the model master spray paints by and large though th Model Master dull coat is quite good). It will go faster and you'll get a better finish that way. you will have to carefully mask the camo pattern on your spitfire though.
And after 30 years of modeling, I still brush paint my cockpits, wheel wells, and other interior detail.
RE: painting cockpits... hmm. I'll look around a bit for you. seems to me I saw one some time ago, but I can't remember if it was online or in a magazine.
Where in Texas are you? I'm living in Austin (grew up in Houston).
And after 30 years of modeling, I still brush paint my cockpits, wheel wells, and other interior detail.
RE: painting cockpits... hmm. I'll look around a bit for you. seems to me I saw one some time ago, but I can't remember if it was online or in a magazine.
Where in Texas are you? I'm living in Austin (grew up in Houston).
tsoenen
Joined: February 26, 2008
KitMaker: 10 posts
AeroScale: 4 posts
Posted: Monday, March 03, 2008 - 05:04 AM UTC
Thanks for the reply. I will try the spray cans for the exterior. I ran a search for cockpit articles on kitmaker and nothing precise came up. I appreciate your help.
I'm actually from the northwest Austin area. I am temporarily in Houston for an internship.
I'm actually from the northwest Austin area. I am temporarily in Houston for an internship.
vanize
Joined: January 30, 2006
KitMaker: 1,954 posts
AeroScale: 1,163 posts
Posted: Monday, March 03, 2008 - 09:42 AM UTC
http://www.hyperscale.com/features/2001/f14cockpitdwa_2.htm
that more or less sums up the way I do it.
you don't have to start with the airbrushed base coat of course - brush painting is fine for that task as well. Just keep it opaque but thin (a couple light coats are better than one thick one).
Of course the most important first step is to find out what it is supposed to look like:
keep in mind that is not a Mk. II cockpit, but it is more or less the same for your purposes (until you get into adding extra detail to your cockpits). It gives you the proper basic color scheme to be sure.
Ignore the seat pad, it is a later addition. The true color of the seat can be seen in the bottom right, just in front of the edge of the canopy - unpainted Bakelite.
that more or less sums up the way I do it.
you don't have to start with the airbrushed base coat of course - brush painting is fine for that task as well. Just keep it opaque but thin (a couple light coats are better than one thick one).
Of course the most important first step is to find out what it is supposed to look like:
keep in mind that is not a Mk. II cockpit, but it is more or less the same for your purposes (until you get into adding extra detail to your cockpits). It gives you the proper basic color scheme to be sure.
Ignore the seat pad, it is a later addition. The true color of the seat can be seen in the bottom right, just in front of the edge of the canopy - unpainted Bakelite.
Yeti123
Joined: February 11, 2008
KitMaker: 311 posts
AeroScale: 278 posts
Posted: Monday, March 03, 2008 - 10:20 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Also, I am brush painting all of my models until I determine if I'm dedicated to the hobby enough to get an airbrush. So do y'all have any recommendations as to what paints to use (acylic or enamels)? Should I thin the paint? Are there any brands that people get good results with? My first attempts at brush painting have not turned out too well and am trying not to get discouraged.
Any advice is greatly appreciated.
I have found that paint choice is really more of a personal issue depending on experience. I known several people that have sworn by the old Humbrol enamels and they have achieved great results. I have always liked acrylics because or the short drying time between coats and minimal fumes. I have had the best luck with Polly S or Aircraft Colors brand. Make sure when you load the brush with paint that you do not dip in more than half way up the the bristles and avoid the temptation to load it down with paint. This will help maintain the flexibility in the brush and minimize brush marks in the dried paint.
Good luck and have fun
vanize
Joined: January 30, 2006
KitMaker: 1,954 posts
AeroScale: 1,163 posts
Posted: Monday, March 03, 2008 - 10:59 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
Also, I am brush painting all of my models until I determine if I'm dedicated to the hobby enough to get an airbrush. So do y'all have any recommendations as to what paints to use (acylic or enamels)? Should I thin the paint? Are there any brands that people get good results with? My first attempts at brush painting have not turned out too well and am trying not to get discouraged.
Any advice is greatly appreciated.
I have found that paint choice is really more of a personal issue depending on experience. I known several people that have sworn by the old Humbrol enamels and they have achieved great results. I have always liked acrylics because or the short drying time between coats and minimal fumes. I have had the best luck with Polly S or Aircraft Colors brand. Make sure when you load the brush with paint that you do not dip in more than half way up the the bristles and avoid the temptation to load it down with paint. This will help maintain the flexibility in the brush and minimize brush marks in the dried paint.
Good luck and have fun
oh yeah, I forgot to address that part of your post, sorry Tony.
I personally agree with Taylor here. Polly S brush paints quite well for acyrlic. Tamiya paints do not brush paint well in my experience. the Model Master acyrlics do ok. Gunze Sangyo also don't brush paint all that well.
For enamel "oil" based paints:
Model Master enamels are about as good as their acyrlic range in general quality, but oils to tend to bush better as a basic trait anyway (the nature of enamels vs. acyrlics when it comes to toxicity, smell, and cleanup pretty much dictates that I use arlics most of the time though)
stay away from the small, cheap bottles of Testors enamel paints. (Testors makes the Model Master range as well, or at least used to, but I am not talking about those, I mean the very small ones you find in Hobby Lobby or whatever with white labels and often come in sets)
All the ones I have mentioned are basically fine for painting without thinning except for the Revell and Humbrol ones, which do need thinning, at least the way I paint (another mark against them in my opinion).
there are other paints availble - Humbrol (not that great in my opinon, but many people here will disagree with me - and not available in Texas anyway), Floquil (marketed for model railroad types) and Valleho (which are too thin for brush painting, but high quality from what I hear, and I intend to try them soon) are a couple examples, but there are others that around as well (figure painters can tell you about several other lines I am sure).
I use mostly the Polly S acyrlic and Model Master (both types) for my brush painting, and Gunze Sangyo paints (thinned with the same brand of thinner) for airbrushing.
glamdring
Joined: May 21, 2007
KitMaker: 77 posts
AeroScale: 76 posts
KitMaker: 77 posts
AeroScale: 76 posts
Posted: Monday, March 03, 2008 - 03:54 PM UTC
Tony,
The thing that I would definitely second is many light coats instead of a heavy one. Personally, when I am brush painting I use Tamiya acrylics, but always add a percentage (25-50%??) of acrylic retarder found at art stores. This does tend to make it pretty thin, but slows the drying time way down to help prevent brush strokes.
Good luck, and I would definitely encourage you to practice on extra pieces or sprue before trying to get it right in the actual cockpit.
Allen
The thing that I would definitely second is many light coats instead of a heavy one. Personally, when I am brush painting I use Tamiya acrylics, but always add a percentage (25-50%??) of acrylic retarder found at art stores. This does tend to make it pretty thin, but slows the drying time way down to help prevent brush strokes.
Good luck, and I would definitely encourage you to practice on extra pieces or sprue before trying to get it right in the actual cockpit.
Allen
tsoenen
Joined: February 26, 2008
KitMaker: 10 posts
AeroScale: 4 posts
Posted: Monday, March 03, 2008 - 05:18 PM UTC
Thank you to all for the great advice. I'm glad that people are willing to help out the noobs.
I have a ton of that crappy testors enamel that i got a couple years ago when i had absolutely no idea what i was doing. I'm going to stock up on acrlyics since I live in an apartment and I don't want to get too high.
Thanks for the advice and I'm sure I will have more questions in the future
I have a ton of that crappy testors enamel that i got a couple years ago when i had absolutely no idea what i was doing. I'm going to stock up on acrlyics since I live in an apartment and I don't want to get too high.
Thanks for the advice and I'm sure I will have more questions in the future
Emeritus
Joined: March 30, 2004
KitMaker: 2,845 posts
AeroScale: 1,564 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 - 06:19 AM UTC
Regarding the photo, ignore the gunsight as well, looks like one of those late-war gyro-sights.
Indeed, the several thin coats guideline applies to all painting. Thick coats tend to fill in details, show brush marks and dry slower than thinner ones.
Spray paints wouldn't that bad for base coats if you have the right color, and know how to lay down thin coats to avoid filling details. You could spray all the interior components with the right color at the same in a matter of minutes, then do the rest of the painting by hand brushing (washes, drybrushing, picking out details etc)
I have to slightly disagree here. It depends on the paint type. Vallejo air series is meant for airbrushing (although to achieve good results, they do require further thinning), and can be too thin for brush painting, model color series on the other hand is thicker and more meant for hand-brushing. (although there's nothing to stop you from airbrushing these either, just thin them properly)
Sometimes model colors come a bit too thick out of the bottle, but nothing a bit of thinning won't cure.
I know they don't recommend thinning paints in-bottle, but I usually add a few drops of distilled water to each new model color paint I buy if they're thick, so I can brush them straight from the bottle. I've had no adverse effects yet, but don't come saying I said "do it!"
Indeed, the several thin coats guideline applies to all painting. Thick coats tend to fill in details, show brush marks and dry slower than thinner ones.
Spray paints wouldn't that bad for base coats if you have the right color, and know how to lay down thin coats to avoid filling details. You could spray all the interior components with the right color at the same in a matter of minutes, then do the rest of the painting by hand brushing (washes, drybrushing, picking out details etc)
Quoted Text
Valleho (which are too thin for brush painting, but high quality from what I hear, and I intend to try them soon)
I have to slightly disagree here. It depends on the paint type. Vallejo air series is meant for airbrushing (although to achieve good results, they do require further thinning), and can be too thin for brush painting, model color series on the other hand is thicker and more meant for hand-brushing. (although there's nothing to stop you from airbrushing these either, just thin them properly)
Sometimes model colors come a bit too thick out of the bottle, but nothing a bit of thinning won't cure.
I know they don't recommend thinning paints in-bottle, but I usually add a few drops of distilled water to each new model color paint I buy if they're thick, so I can brush them straight from the bottle. I've had no adverse effects yet, but don't come saying I said "do it!"
vanize
Joined: January 30, 2006
KitMaker: 1,954 posts
AeroScale: 1,163 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 - 06:57 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Regarding the photo, ignore the gunsight as well, looks like one of those late-war gyro-sights.
Quoted TextValleho (which are too thin for brush painting, but high quality from what I hear, and I intend to try them soon)
I have to slightly disagree here. It depends on the paint type. Vallejo air series is meant for airbrushing (although to achieve good results, they do require further thinning), and can be too thin for brush painting, model color series on the other hand is thicker and more meant for hand-brushing. (although there's nothing to stop you from airbrushing these either, just thin them properly)
aha. i didn't even know they had two lines - the LHS only carries the air series I guess (or I haven't looked closely enough).
RE: the cockpit shot - yes, that was only intended as a color guide since it sounds like he isn't going to be doing any detailing this time around.
jowady
Joined: June 12, 2006
KitMaker: 1,027 posts
AeroScale: 131 posts
KitMaker: 1,027 posts
AeroScale: 131 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 - 05:10 PM UTC
[quote
there are other paints availble - Humbrol (not that great in my opinon, but many people here will disagree with me - and not available in Texas anyway),.[/quote]
I live in Texas, buying in El Paso and Austin and Humbrol paints are certainly available here.
John
there are other paints availble - Humbrol (not that great in my opinon, but many people here will disagree with me - and not available in Texas anyway),.[/quote]
I live in Texas, buying in El Paso and Austin and Humbrol paints are certainly available here.
John
B-17-guy
Joined: March 14, 2008
KitMaker: 27 posts
AeroScale: 20 posts
Posted: Friday, March 14, 2008 - 08:43 AM UTC
[quote]I'm very new to building models and I was wondering if there is a good article to read about painting cockpits. I just got the Revell Spitfire Mk II 1-48. I figure it will be a good one to start with.
Also, I am brush painting all of my models until I determine if I'm dedicated to the hobby enough to get an airbrush. So do y'all have any recommendations as to what paints to use (acylic or enamels)? Should I thin the paint? Are there any brands that people get good results with? My first attempts at brush painting have not turned out too well and am trying not to get discouraged.[quote]
Dont be discouraged, I've been building off and on for 20 years, and I'm nowhere as good as most most of the people on this board. I build for the fun of it, and because I like the planes I build. An added benefit of doing combat airplanes is that you can get away alot more imperfections in painting, because of combat wear and battle damage. I have never used an airbrush, I brush paint, always from from to back on planes, going with the slipstream. I use my kids water colors for weathering.
As for your question of using enamel or acrylic....I say use both!
I use Tamiya acrylic chrome silver X-11, as an undercoat. On a fighter, I'll cover most of the plane, on a bomber, only certain places to save paint. Then I use Model master enamels over top of the silver. I used to use my x-acto knife to scratch the camo top coats to make paint chips, but I'm gonna be trying my hand at the salt chipping method soon. And like I said, I use watercolors and acrylic paint to do washes for weathering. I do it that way so I can wash off my mistakes. I just wannna say again, I am not the best at modeling, but I have fun at what I do
Have fun and good luck!
Also, I am brush painting all of my models until I determine if I'm dedicated to the hobby enough to get an airbrush. So do y'all have any recommendations as to what paints to use (acylic or enamels)? Should I thin the paint? Are there any brands that people get good results with? My first attempts at brush painting have not turned out too well and am trying not to get discouraged.[quote]
Dont be discouraged, I've been building off and on for 20 years, and I'm nowhere as good as most most of the people on this board. I build for the fun of it, and because I like the planes I build. An added benefit of doing combat airplanes is that you can get away alot more imperfections in painting, because of combat wear and battle damage. I have never used an airbrush, I brush paint, always from from to back on planes, going with the slipstream. I use my kids water colors for weathering.
As for your question of using enamel or acrylic....I say use both!
I use Tamiya acrylic chrome silver X-11, as an undercoat. On a fighter, I'll cover most of the plane, on a bomber, only certain places to save paint. Then I use Model master enamels over top of the silver. I used to use my x-acto knife to scratch the camo top coats to make paint chips, but I'm gonna be trying my hand at the salt chipping method soon. And like I said, I use watercolors and acrylic paint to do washes for weathering. I do it that way so I can wash off my mistakes. I just wannna say again, I am not the best at modeling, but I have fun at what I do
Have fun and good luck!
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