So Stephen have we found any color or markings on this one lol.

Greetings Steve;

He is refering to a thread I started on the Aerodrome. I believe (note that) it was an early production Fok. Dr.I (115/17) and was crashed on 29 Oct. 1917. Ltn. Gontermnn died the next day of wounds received in that crash. In photos of the aircraft both before and after the crash we see that the cowling, wheel covers and the spine of the aircraft were overpaints a solid colour. Possible colours were brown or orange.

Greetings all;

I would like to open a discussion about Ltn. H. Gontermann's Fokker Dr.I 115/17. We can get into the specifics of its arrival to the front and how many days it was on hand at Jasta 15 before that fateful flight. Most of us are familar with the wing failure but we can touch base here as well. I also would like to brings up the topic of its modifications and this includes its Unit paint scheme. So if your game lets begin.

First a popular view.


Next moments before the start.

Then after the wreck.

Since we have gotten off to a reasonable start lets look at two possible colours. If we eliminate one or both at least we can consider other possibilities. This Triplane has been called the first operational Dr.I at the front. While I don't agree with this I am open to good information. First lets look at the wheel cover, cowl and spine colours. Consider brown or orange.

The reasons;

Brown has been recorded by Alex Imrie as a Jasta 15 colour used to narrow the cross fields and rudder cross field on at least one Dr.I

Dr.I 115/17 arrived before the inclusion of Jasta 15 into JG.II. At that time the Dr.I aircraft probably began emplying a white cowling like Jastas 12, 13 & 19. As Gontermann was ubable to fly this machine for several days there was plenty of time to apply some colour and any adjustments that Gontermann as commander wanted.

Going by a Methuen view Dan San Abbott and I discussed this about three years ago and a dull orange might also be possible.

Now the wheels covers and cowling are an obvious call for unit and maybe even personal markings. The spine is an area that MvR had noted would be a good place for a commander's marking / colour as well. Gontermann had easy access to communicate with him.

With these general statements we can get down to specifics and a day by day account of this machine's brief life.

First lets start with the cowling of Dr.I 115/17 why would we think it has been over painted? The Reich plate is the same colour as the rest of the cowling.

Now Mr. Imrie says that Fokker Dr.I 115/17 (werke 1783) was dispatched on 4 Oct. 1917. Dispatched here having the meaning of - being added to the cargo to be shipped directly to the front (VII Army area) . - He further says that the Jasta 15 "war diary" says this machine arrived on 11 Oct. It was noted as assembled and ready for flight by the report of the next day. Ltn. Gontermann was ill and did not fly the triplane untill 26 Oct. He wanted to evaluate this machine and take his time getting use to it.

Ltn. Jacobs commander of Jasta 7 was to echo the same sentiments in March 1918 when he picked up his first (and possibly the longest surviving Dr.I machine at the front) and found that when triggering both Spandaus that the line of flight was interrupted. Gontermann's letters have evidently survived and are noted as containing his high expectations of the type in his career.

The remaining completed machines that had been accepted were assigned to the IV Army area depot to be held until 21 total could be sent at one time to Jasta 11. The first 17 machines were dispatched on 10 & 13 Oct. (the last five were shipped on 29 Oct.) Three serials are absent from the list of machines we note here, Dr.I 105/17, 108/17 and 120/17. To be clear there never was a Fokker Dr.I 120/17 . As a guess 105/17 and 108/17 "MIGHT" have been held back as experiment platforms for the Fokker works. Therefore 108/17 would receive the Goebel Goe.100hp rotary as the first installation for training service.

For photographs on Jasta 15 machines we have a pretty good assortment but as I stated earlier, Gontermann's was not given any of their markings. Mr. Imrie says that the unit colour of Jasta 15 was probably brown.

Now as Gontermann begins testing his new machine the Jasta 15 Technical Officer, Ltn. Arnzten was on hand to record the events with notations and even the photo images we have seen presented here. These are in the hands of Mr. Imrie and we should acknowlege his great effort to present them not only to fellow historians but in his book on the subject of the Fokker Triplane published in 1992 (Out of print at this time).

The other significant works on this subject are by Aerodrome member Dan San Abbott and his research on the Dr.I in service. Over the Front Vopl 5/ #4/ Pp.326 -339.

Peter Grosz and A.E. Ferko's collaboration on reappraising the Fok. Dr.I in Air Enthusiast Eight. (Out of Print)

Paul S. Leaman's book on the subject can still be purchased.

Rick Duiven has recorded the service of Ltn.d.R. Heinrich Arntzen saying that 2 of his 11 victories were claimed while he served in Jasta 15. He arrived in July 1917 and left on 23 Dec.1917 for Jasta 50.

Gontermann's own illustrious career is easliy researched. Ltn.d.R. Heinrich Gontermann claimed 22 of his total 39 victories with Jasta 15. He came from Jasta 5 on 30April 1917. On 18 May17 he went on leave and returned on 19June 1917. (THis was in connection with his award of the Blue Max.) On 30 Oct 1917 he was in the crash of Fok. Dr.I 115/17.

The method of his death is noted as it nearly matches the other well known images of crashed Triplanes that suffered top wing failure.

The blood trail on the fuselage side as Tom has noted tells us something too. He was still alive after the crash. This type of trauma can be understood as well. The proximity of the gun butts would be terrible as Lothar von Richthofen discovered. But he survived.

The visual absence of the seat may indicate that the support frame collapsed and as a result Gontermann may have suffered a basal skull fracture. Where the spine is pushed up into the lower opening of the skull. This is just speculation on my part. Yet the same issues took place at Adlershof in testing one of the early SSW D fighters.

Another thread on Gontermann

Most references seem to show the fatal flight took place on 30 Oct. 1917. But re-reading some documents I am reminded that it actually took place on 29 Oct. 1917. Gontermann died the next day and the Grufl photographers showed up the next day to take their images of the crash. (Hence the reason they were marked 30 Oct. 1917.)

Having done a little more checking on the medical side of the issue. It seems that brain hemoraging caused from the crash may have had more to to do with his death. I have some interesting German docs from Fokker Team Schorndorf and I'll be getting translate them in the next few days. These deal specifically with the crash investigation. While it seems to deal with the the cause of the crash and has been published in English before I am looking to see if they remarked about Gontermann or the witnesses

The interesting thing is the dataplate is painted over. This means the cowling is painted over. I will also include the wheel covers and spine area in this.

Now that we can see there are some areas of Dr.I 115/17 were possibly overpainted. We can postulate - why? There had been confusion with British Sopwith Triplanes. So if he were to simply test this machine behind his own lines, he obviously didn't want his own people to shoot at him. One historian has said this was a concern with the early Dr.I type so the cowlings were painted a blue similar to the undersurface colours. (Jasta 11) Were later painted red of course. See Imrie's book.

Maybe Gonterman took a nod from these efforts. And decided to have certain areas painted over so he could carry on his testing / familarizations. It would take a communications from him to local area commanders through Grufl. Flak - Flieger Abwer Kanone units especially.

Through his own admission Ltn. Gontermann was going to continue his balloon hunting, specifically with this machine in mind. Diving, turning, banking and strafing to get use to the Dr.I type's peculiarities. Not wanting to get too carried away here I ask you to evaluate this and weigh in with your further comments.