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Early Aviation
Discuss World War I and the early years of aviation thru 1934.
Werner Voss's Triplane
AikinutNY
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Pennsylvania, United States
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Posted: Monday, May 05, 2008 - 03:37 AM UTC
What was the paint scheme for his Fokker triplane? Was it painted or was the paint just faded in spots? The under side was a light sky blue with the white bands and black iron crosses, but the upper surface confuses me.
MerlinV
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Victoria, Australia
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Posted: Monday, May 05, 2008 - 04:09 PM UTC
Hi Jim,

Streaked Paint over "Bleached" Fabric. Which is why it will look lighter in tone to later Dr.I types.
Controversy reigns as to the colour of the Cowl, but the majority seem to agree that it was a Dark or Olive Green.

Cheers,

Hugh
JackFlash
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Posted: Monday, May 05, 2008 - 04:28 PM UTC

Quoted Text

". . . The under side was a light sky blue with the white bands and black iron crosses, but the upper surface confuses me.



No, the cross fields for the undersurface wings of F.I 103/17 were clear doped bleached linen not painted white though nearly so. Try white with a touch of grey. But only a touch.
AikinutNY
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Pennsylvania, United States
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Posted: Monday, May 05, 2008 - 11:06 PM UTC
Would that color apply to the rest of the "White" bands?

bertielissie
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Australia
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Posted: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 01:48 PM UTC
Hi there.
Now I've done a bit of research into this as I'm an admirer of Voss. The whole issue of the colour of his Fokker is controversial.There is NO conclusive proof as to the colour of his cowling but according to"September Evening..the life and final combat of the German World War 1 ace Werner Voss" written by Barry Diggens, Grubb Street Press,2003, his cowling was YELLOW. Voss was in command of Jasta 10 and the unit colour was indeed yellow.His colours would have had to conform to the unit markings.The wheel colours may have been yellow as well. If you go to GOOGLE IMAGES and type in Voss Fokker Triplane you may get an image of the book cover that shows his machine. If you send me your email address I'll scan the pages and send them to you.
Cheers, Bertie
thegirl
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Alberta, Canada
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Posted: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 02:22 PM UTC
Have just pick up Eduard's Dual Combo 1/72 . This will fit right in nicely . PM sent with e-mail. Cheers all
JackFlash
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Posted: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 07:15 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Would that color apply to the rest of the "White" bands?



The rest of the cross fields were painted white.
JackFlash
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Posted: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 - 07:23 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi there.+Now I've done a bit of research into this as I'm an admirer of Voss. The whole issue of the colour of his Fokker is controversial.There is NO conclusive proof as to the colour of his cowling but according to"September Evening..the life and final combat of the German World War 1 ace Werner Voss" written by Barry Diggens, Grubb Street Press,2003, his cowling was YELLOW. . ."



The main problem with the yellow cowling is that the white face detail would not be prominent. Also Voss was a tremendous individualist. It got him into some trouble when he and another pilot banded together to complain out his commanderof Jasta 2 in the spring of 1917. He was shipped out to do temporary command of several Jastas in a very short period of time. If had not owned the Orden Pour le Merite he would have summarily been shipped out to the infantry. As it was MvR saved his backsides by requesting Voss to command Jasta 10, Where he also flew the Alb. D.V and Pfalz D.III before the Fok. F.I types were assigned to JG.I. By the way Mr. A. Imrie say Voss' cowling on 103/17 was painted to represent an oriental dragon kite..
grandadjohn
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Arizona, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 08:38 AM UTC
In general, what color was streaked over the linen? I can't find the color listed anywhere
JackFlash
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Posted: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 10:26 AM UTC

Quoted Text

In general, what color was streaked over the linen? I can't find the color listed anywhere



The streaking has been described variously as olive or dark earth. While the wreck was recovered by the British it was several weeks after the fatal combat. This can literally mean any colour between Testors dark green to drab earth. In my opinion.
JackFlash
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Posted: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 10:48 AM UTC
The reason for the rough look on F.I 103/17 was that the heaviest areas where the burned castor oil exhaust accumulated was on the forward fuselage and lower wings. This had to be sanded off between flights as part of the general maintenance. Voss had been flying this machine for almost a month solid before its destruction.

Brand New.


A month later.


RAGIII
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North Carolina, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 11:53 AM UTC
Just afew random thoughts here!
1. Overall color; For years it has been accepted(relatively ),that the base coat on 102&103/17 was blue. Why, first hand accounts by pilots who met the aircraft in combat andmore importantly PRO accounts in the files of the Royal Airforce.(IWM) In the last few years at least 2 researchers I know of have been adamant that there was "NO DIFFERENCE" in the finish of these two aircraft as compared to production DR1s. In the last several months, suddenly they have decided there was a difference, this being that the fabric was bleached as opposed to unbleached linen. There is NO PROOF of any color ,but in an unusual stance auther Greg Van Wyngarden has opted to support an overall undersurface blue coat with streaking on the uppersurfaces. Why? Because the overall first hand accounts and evidence lends credence to the blue theory. No 90 odd year later analysis of photos and concocting what we wish, just plain interpretation of what was recorded.Anyone stating that ANY theory is correct is wrong! Greg has stated he believes blue as an overall color is correct, his opinion and good enough for me, but not FACT!
2. I have read comments that the white face on a yellow cowling would not stand out. There are plenty of models on the web that show this is not true. Chrome yellow is quite a bit darker than white, not just on ortho film either.

I am sure this will light some people up but I felt the other side should be represented.!
RAGIII

PS. Just to make things clear I am NOT saying that CDL, Bleached linen or whatever is wrong, just that I won't dismiss out of hand PRO acounts and first hand pilot reports. As a matter of fact I feel strongly both ways!

PPS. What does this mean to modelers? Well it means you have at least three or four choices that can be considered historically correct for one aircraft! Pretty cool if you have a fancy to build a bunch of Voss F.I kits.
JackFlash
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Posted: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 12:34 PM UTC

Quoted Text

". . .2. I have read comments that the white face on a yellow cowling would not stand out. There are plenty of models on the web that show this is not true. Chrome yellow is quite a bit darker than white, not just on ortho film either. . ."



With respects to you and your opinion, the staining of the cowling by the castor oil exhaust would tend to mitigate this. For anyone in the US that has seen a school bus this is very close to chrome yellow. Note the recent applied white patches on the forward left fuselage and the stained white rudder.
grandadjohn
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Arizona, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, May 21, 2008 - 12:56 PM UTC
Thanks
RAGIII
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North Carolina, United States
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Posted: Thursday, May 22, 2008 - 12:28 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

". . .2. I have read comments that the white face on a yellow cowling would not stand out. There are plenty of models on the web that show this is not true. Chrome yellow is quite a bit darker than white, not just on ortho film either. . ."



With respects to you and your opinion, the staining of the cowling by the castor oil exhaust would tend to mitigate this. For anyone in the US that has seen a school bus this is very close to chrome yellow. Note the recent applied white patches on the forward left fuselage and the stained white rudder.



Stephen, can't say I agree or disagree. The truth is I think the cowling was green but there is no positive proof/records to tell us which is accurate. Speculation on this bird is now, and probably will be , a model builders dream, do it how you think it was and no one can prove you wrong! The exact reason I posted my conflicting opinion!
RAGIII
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