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Early Aviation
Discuss World War I and the early years of aviation thru 1934.
Hosted by Jim Starkweather
Eduard Fok. Dr.I Combo - notes.
JackFlash
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Posted: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 - 07:01 AM UTC

Greetings fellow wing nuts!

While I have the review inprogress.here is a short list of fixes for the various colour profiles. You will not find this anywhere else.

A. Fok. Dr.I serial unknow but probably 21X/17. Dr.I 212, 213, 214, 216, & 219/17 are accounted for. Eduard implies on the box art that it is 218/17. But that is not known for sure. While they did get the box art wrong the profile at the bottom of the page and 10 are correct. the white areas should be on the pilot's right for this aircraft. Ltn. Frommherz usually employed a unique ring & bead gunsight seen on this and one other Dr.I he flew.


The air service record of Ltn.d.R. Hermann Frommherz.
Coming from Kampf Geschwader 1 (Bombing unit one) he arrived at Jasta 2 (Boelcke) on 22 March 1917. On 1 May 1917 he was received minor injuries in a crash but stayed with the Jasta.

He was transferred on 24 October 1917 to the DFW operated Flieger Schule at Leübeck - Travemunde and served as a flight instructor. (FEA 3)

He was transferred from Lübeck - Travemünde on 18 May 1918 back to Jasta 2 (Boelcke.) Then on 29 July 1918 he was transferred to temporary command Jasta 27 in the same fighter group as Jasta 2 (Boelcke.)

On August 7 1918 the position was made permanent and he served as the Jasta 27 commander until the end of hostilities.
JackFlash
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Posted: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 - 07:26 AM UTC

Next is Fokker Dr.I 564/17 (Eduard may have gotten this wrong ?) was rec'd at Jasta 11 on 6 April 1918. The motor was the Rhemag copy of the Oberursel Ur.II (Rh). AS has beem mentioned Ltn. Werner Steinhäuser flew this and one other similarly marked Fok. Dr.I where the colour placements of red & yellow were reversed.

The second and later aircraft (that was probably the Dr.I 564/17 )had the colours reversed on the fuselage band and tail markings. Most images of this machine show it with "Balken" (straight armed) crosses ordered in March 1918. Those were added probably in late April 1918.

From Dan San Abbott - In the IdFlieg directive of 20 March 1918 to all manufacturers state in the first sentence, translated to English:

"To improve the recognition of our aircraft, the following is ordered:" . . .
in paragraph 2, second sentence: "This alteration is to be carried out by 15 April 1918."
The closing sentence reads: "Order 41390 is to be speedily executed."
Very clear, the cause and the action. This directive supplements the directive of 17 March 1918. . .Balken means beam, it was called the beam cross.

Originally Ltn. Steinhäuser had come from the Feld Artty Rgt. Nr.61 (2 Grossenherzog von Hessen.) These colours were from his former regiment.

Ltn. Werner Steinhäuser came from AFP 4 on 17 Nov. 1917 and on 17 March 1918 he was WIA.
He came back from the hospital on 2 April 1918 and on 26 June 1918 he was KIA.
Lucky13
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Posted: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 - 07:32 AM UTC
Need to get a few of this one....always liked the Dr.1! Looking forward to the review young man..!
JackFlash
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Posted: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 - 07:44 AM UTC


This Fokker Dr.I 545/17 in the markings of Ltn. des Res. Hans Weiss. A flight or "Kette" commander and served at Jasta 11 a month and a day before falling in combat. On April 8 he was named acting commander of Jasta 11.

Ltn.d.R. Hans Weiss - stellvertreter Kommanduer (acting comannder) of Jasta 11 on 8 April 1918 and on 2 May 1918 was KIA. It is safe to say that the extensive overpainting of his machine was done because he was a kette (flight) leader and the Jasta 11 acting commander before his death.

The problem areas I see are The forward fuselage (from a vertical line at the leading edge of the middle wing) and cowling were red. The landing gear legs were the under surface light blue when photographed not red.
JackFlash
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Posted: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 - 08:20 AM UTC

Next is Fokker Dr.I 213/17 as flown by Ltn. des Res. Friedrich Paul Kempf. The machine was rec'd on 12 Jan. 1918.

Ltn.d.R. Friedrich Paul Kempf came from AFP 1 on 8 April 1917 and on 17 Oct. 1917 he was transferred to JsSch I as an instructor. He returned on 28 Jan. 1918 and stayed until 18 Aug 1918 we was returned to JsSch I as an instructor, where he stayed until the EOW.

Ltn. des Res.Kempf flew this machine and another one similarly marked during his service in Jasta 2 (Boelke). The problem areas are the fuselage below the tail was painted with the white on the pilot's left and black on the right side. Jasta 2 as well as other aircraft in the nearby JG III (Jasta 26, 27 & 36) had many of their Dr.I machines augmented with stay bars / rods behine the rear landing gear struts. Dr.I 213/17 had these. These were standard items in the DML / Dragon kit.

Dr.I 213/17 also carried Kette (flight) leader's streamers on the lower interplane struts.
JackFlash
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Posted: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 - 08:38 AM UTC

Fokker Dr.I 577/17 was flown by Ltn Rudolf Klimke.

Ltn. Rudolf Klimke came from JsSch I on 12 Sept. 1917. He served inJasta 27 until 21 Sept. 1918 when he was severely WIA. He managed to land his machine (Fokker D.VII) but was almost killed when the hospital he was receiving medical attention at was accidentally bombed. After this he could not return to service.

The problems here are that the wing crosses in the profiles all have borders that need to be thicker. Also the pilot's left middle wing tip has some noteable repair work.



JackFlash
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Posted: Wednesday, August 20, 2008 - 08:40 AM UTC

Next will be Hauptmann Ritter (knight) Adolf von Tutschek.
This machine was received on 10 Jan. 1918. Originally it was tested with a Goebel Goe. III. An experimental rotary motor that ranged from 145 - 160hp. By the time it got to Jasta 12 is was equipped with the standard 120hp Oberursel Ur.II. The black band behind the cowl went from narrow to a wider version as the service life lengthened.




After graduating from the Royal Bavarian Cadet School, von Tutschek's joined the 3rd Bayerischen Infantry Regiment in 1910. During the war, he distinguished himself in combat while serving in France and on the Eastern Front. Severely wounded during a gas attack at Verdun (his second wound of the war), von Tutschek was ill for months. When he recovered, he transferred to the German Air Service.

After pilot training, served as a two-seater pilot with FA 6. On 25 January 1917, he was assigned to Jasta Boelcke as a scout pilot. Having scored three victories with this unit, he was given command of Jasta 12 on 28 April 1917.

On 11 August 1917, von Tutschek was badly wounded in the right shoulder when his black-tailed Albatros D.V was shot down by Charles Booker of 8 Naval Squadron. Out of action for six months, he wrote his memoirs while recovering: Sturme and Luftsiege (storm and Air Combats).

On 1 February 1918, von Tutschek was given command of Jagdgeschwader II. Mid-morning on 15 March 1918, the triplanes of JG II tangled with the Royal Flying Corps near Brancourt. Tutscheck was killed when his Fokker Dr.I (404/17) was shot down by an S.E.5a flown by South African ace Lt. Harold Redler of RFC 24 Squadron.

When his body was recovered the linen hankerchef that was knotted through a button hole in his flight suit was still tucked in place. This was used to wipe his goggles off during combat. (from the rotary castor oil exhaust). Hauptmann von Tutschek was hit before he knew he was being engaged.

The problems with this profile are there is a black band behind the white cowl that stops at the leading edge of the middle wing. Also there should be a Morrell Anemometer on the pilot's left upper interplane strut. This is an air speed incicator that is attached to the strut. The Eduard Fokker D.VII kit has these.
Dwaynewilly
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Posted: Thursday, August 21, 2008 - 11:54 AM UTC
Stephen,

I just picked up my kit and was surprised to see that the printing on the box included Dr I 503/17 flown by Ltn Hans Korner of Jasta 19 in April of 1918. I was very happy to see this profile but it was not to be, it is not on the sheet. Does anyone know what happened?

Dwayne
JackFlash
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Posted: Thursday, August 21, 2008 - 02:34 PM UTC
I noticed that myself. It was something I was going to bring up but I have not had a response back from my Eduardian. . .er , uh sources




This is the profile Dwayne is discussing. At far right on the box side panels. The Jasta 19 machine with the white lightening bolt is Dr.I 503/17. Possibly there was not enough room for the 3 needed lightening bolts? So they went with a scheme that employed similar crosses. Ltn. Hans Weiss' Dr.I 545/17 was the replacement.
JackFlash
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Posted: Thursday, August 21, 2008 - 02:41 PM UTC
Here is my version done back in 1993 using decal film and some spare serial numbers.

thegirl
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Posted: Thursday, August 21, 2008 - 05:11 PM UTC
I order my about two weeks ago now at the hooby shop , but it hasn't arrived yet . this is good know thanks for the heads up on this .
Removed by original poster on 08/22/08 - 11:59:37 (GMT).
Roxter
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Posted: Friday, August 22, 2008 - 01:15 AM UTC
Jack, thanx for your extensive notes!

Purchased my kit several days ago and got notification from Modelimex that the parcel sent yesterday.

What I wanted to know - if it's possible to build Manfred "Rouge Petit" from the dual combo kit?

Thanx in advance!
JackFlash
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Posted: Friday, August 22, 2008 - 04:52 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Jack, thanx for your extensive notes! Purchased my kit several days ago and got notification from Modelimex that the parcel sent yesterday. What I wanted to know - if it's possible to build Manfred "Rouge Petit" from the dual combo kit? Thanx in advance!


Greetings Roxter;

Of course. The Cross decals for 577/17 or the Fromherz Dr.I profile would be contemporary with 425/17 or 152/17 . I recommend the wing crosses have their white borders thickened slightly.
Roxter
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Posted: Friday, August 22, 2008 - 10:21 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Greetings Roxter;

Of course. The Cross decals for 577/17 or the Fromherz Dr.I profile would be contemporary with 425/17 or 152/17 . I recommend the wing crosses have their white borders thickened slightly.


And of course all over red finish. What about the stencil data and Werke nummer?

Thanx in advance!!
JackFlash
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Posted: Friday, August 22, 2008 - 07:50 PM UTC

Quoted Text

". . .And of course all over red finish. What about the stencil data and Werke nummer? Thanx in advance!!


Here is a bit of fun on the subject. Scroll to the first post for 23 Aug. 2008.
Click Here.
Roxter
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Posted: Saturday, August 23, 2008 - 06:07 AM UTC
Jack, thanx again for extensive and expertise answer!

Do you have information about Paul Baumer Fokker Dr.I? I know he was a friend of Erich Maria Remarque and it would be very interesting to have his plane on the shelf.

PS. By the way, how do you bend coloured Eduard's PE belts so the paint don't chip off? I used those on my P-47 and remember having to repaint the belts as the paint chipped off
JackFlash
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Posted: Saturday, August 23, 2008 - 08:30 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Jack, thanx again for extensive and expertise answer!

Do you have information about Paul Baumer Fokker Dr.I? I know he was a friend of Erich Maria Remarque and it would be very interesting to have his plane on the shelf.

PS. By the way, how do you bend coloured Eduard's PE belts so the paint don't chip off? I used those on my P-47 and remember having to repaint the belts as the paint chipped off


Ltn. P. Baümer's Dr.I aircraft sure at least two. Also on the prepainted harness straps. Shoot them with a hot laquer clear coat like Dullcote (Testors). Let it set til dry to the touch. This softens the paint slightly. then bend in one direction. Use the seat as the mold to bend it against.
thegirl
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Posted: Tuesday, September 02, 2008 - 04:51 PM UTC
"Ring rinnnnnnng ring " Hello ! This is Cosmic Hobby your Dual Combo kit of the Fokker DR.1 in 1/48 is in ................."Really , cool . I'll be in soon to pick it up .
Now it seems that Friday will not come fast enough !
CaptainA
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Posted: Wednesday, September 03, 2008 - 02:40 PM UTC
I got mine about a week ago. I am not disappointed at all. I might need to get another one.

Might there be a dreidecker campaign in the future?
RAGIII
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Posted: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - 11:03 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Next is Fokker Dr.I 564/17 (Eduard may have gotten this wrong ?) was rec'd at Jasta 11 on 6 April 1918. The motor was the Rhemag copy of the Oberursel Ur.II (Rh). AS has beem mentioned Ltn. Werner Steinhäuser flew this and one other similarly marked Fok. Dr.I where the colour placements of red & yellow were reversed.

The second and later aircraft (that was probably the Dr.I 564/17 )had the colours reversed on the fuselage band and tail markings. Most images of this machine show it with "Balken" (straight armed) crosses ordered in March 1918. Those were added probably in late April 1918.

From Dan San Abbott - In the IdFlieg directive of 20 March 1918 to all manufacturers state in the first sentence, translated to English:

"To improve the recognition of our aircraft, the following is ordered:" . . .
in paragraph 2, second sentence: "This alteration is to be carried out by 15 April 1918."
The closing sentence reads: "Order 41390 is to be speedily executed."
Very clear, the cause and the action. This directive supplements the directive of 17 March 1918. . .Balken means beam, it was called the beam cross.

Originally Ltn. Steinhäuser had come from the Feld Artty Rgt. Nr.61 (2 Grossenherzog von Hessen.) These colours were from his former regiment.

Ltn. Werner Steinhäuser came from AFP 4 on 17 Nov. 1917 and on 17 March 1918 he was WIA.
He came back from the hospital on 2 April 1918 and on 26 June 1918 he was KIA.



Stephen, It seems to me that the serial number quoted is for the later, yellow band/red X and yellow tail with red stripes. As you stated this aircraft was photographed with Balken crosses. The earlier triplane with the Red band that Eduard gives as a decal option is correct as depicted but without? the tail markings. The tail could have been striped but to the best of my knowledge no pictures are around showing the rear of this aircraft. One has to wonder that as the earlier tripe had the colors reversed as compared to the later triplane and DVII, would the tail have been red with yellow stripes???
RAGIII
JackFlash
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Posted: Wednesday, September 10, 2008 - 08:48 PM UTC
Rick has broached a very good question. I was hoping someone who would step into this arena. Now first we have to ask which came first the red field with the red "X" or the yellow field with the red "X"? In discussions that I have had previously with historian and all round good fellow Greg vanWyngarden, he believes that Steinhaüser had at least two of these birds marked similarly where the colours were reversed. In a photo image Steinhaüser himself is swinging the propeller for a fellow Jasta 11 pilot evidently borrowing this machine for a patrol. This is the red band yellow "X" machine.

But then there was.






Here is the quote from Greg VanWyngarden another thread on Steinhaüser.

". . .This is defintely the first Dr.I of Ltn. Werner Steinhäuser, which had a yellow X on the red fuselage band, and red cowling, wheels and struts. The red cowling had faint "eyes" and eyebrows painted around the cooling holes, probably in yellow. The rudder was white.

I now think the tailplane was probably painted in yellow and red stripes (on the red band yellow "X" machine) like on his later triplane 564/17. These stripes may have been applied horizontally to the fuselage beneath the tailplane, but this is impossible to confirm from the photo. . ."

So from this we can see that Eduard got the serial number wrong?

See also,




RAGIII
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Posted: Friday, September 12, 2008 - 12:19 PM UTC
So, in the end, what we have are the following options.
1. Use the kit supplied decals for the fuselage band,X, and tail stripes. ( the serial number is wrong so don't use it for the right fuselage side where the number may be visible before the/17.
2. Use the kit markings supplemented with stripes on the fuselage running horizontally.
3. Use the kit markings with no stripes on the tail.
4. PROVE me wrong! Use the kit markings for the fuselage band, and reverse the tail colors, red with the stripes in yellow.
5 Prove me wrong again, use the kit markings for the fuselage band, reverse the tail colors as above, and also add stripes horizontally in the reverse pattern.

RAGIII
JackFlash
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Posted: Friday, September 12, 2008 - 05:44 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Rick has broached a very good question. I was hoping someone who would step into this arena. Now first we have to ask which came first the red field with the red "X" or the yellow field with the red "X"? . . .


The reason that Greg believes that this ia an early Dr.I is because it has early type ailerons on it. (With the inset scallops more shallow) Like the F.I types but with smaller balances.
RAGIII
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Posted: Saturday, September 13, 2008 - 11:52 AM UTC
Stephen,
Yes the Red banded Yellow X bird has the early ailerons, and the Yellow Banded Red X bird has the late. This in my mind confirms that the scheme offered by Eduard is an EARLIER aircraft than the serial number quoted.
RAGIII
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