Early Aviation
Discuss World War I and the early years of aviation thru 1934.
Discuss World War I and the early years of aviation thru 1934.
Hosted by Jim Starkweather
Eduard 1:48 Fokker E.III # 8156
JackFlash
Colorado, United States
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Posted: Monday, December 08, 2008 - 06:25 PM UTC
Box contents
96 plastic parts
Color photo-etched details
5 camouflage variants
Express mask
Instruction sheet
Colour profiles
Fokker E.II 68/15, flown by Lt.Brückman, late 1915
Fokker E.II 69/15, flown by Lt.Kurt von Crailsheim, late 1915
Fokker E.II, flown by Vfw.Ernst Udet, early 1916
Fokker E.III, flown by Leopold Anslinger, summer, 1916 .
Cost 34.95 USD - 12% discount = 30.76 USD.
And now for something completely different! A new mold of the famous Fokker scourge! Excellent colour markings for the Fokker E.II (short wing)& III (long wing) variants. Please remember to mention that you heard about these products in review, here at Aeroscale's Early Aviation forum. Mine should arrive before the 25th so I'll have a couple of early war variants to tinker with this next year.
JackFlash
Colorado, United States
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Posted: Friday, December 12, 2008 - 06:04 PM UTC
Good news! The kit arrived this evening with the mail.
JackFlash
Colorado, United States
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Posted: Saturday, December 13, 2008 - 03:27 PM UTC
Here are some references to consider.
‘Althaus !’by S. Lawson, Cross & Cockade Int. Vol. 20, #1, 1989.
Eisernes Kreuz und Balken Kreuz by H. Nowarra, Hoffmann Pub. 1968.
Fokker E.III by R. Rimell, Windsock Datafile 15, Albatros Pub. Ltd.
Fokker Eindecker E.III by D. Jones, Cross & Cockade GB, Vol 5, #1, !974, insert Mechanical Drawings and General arrangements.
Fokker Fighters of WWI by A. Imrie, Vintage Warbirds #6, Arms & Armour Press, 1986.
Fokker Monoplanes by J.M.Bruce, Profile Pub.#38, 1965.
‘Fokker Train Atterrissage’ from French Air Service 1916, via Dan San Abbott. General wing arrangements and measurements.
German Army Air Service in WWI by R. Rimell, Vintage Warbirds #2, Arms & Armour Press, 1987.
German Fighter Units 1914- May 1917 by A. Imrie, Osprey Pub. 1978.
‘Kobes in FFA 11' by J. Jacobs, edited by S. Lawson Cross & Cockade Int. Vol. 27, #2, 1996.
‘Kobes in Fosta West’ by J. Jacobs, edited by S. Lawson, Over the Front Vol.9, #4, 1994.
‘Sketches and Descriptions’ by J. Jacobs, edited by S. Lawson, Cross & Cockade Int. Vol.29, #2, 1998.
‘The Flight Log of Ltn. von Hippel’ by J. von Hippel unpublished, 1914-1951.
‘Althaus !’by S. Lawson, Cross & Cockade Int. Vol. 20, #1, 1989.
Eisernes Kreuz und Balken Kreuz by H. Nowarra, Hoffmann Pub. 1968.
Fokker E.III by R. Rimell, Windsock Datafile 15, Albatros Pub. Ltd.
Fokker Eindecker E.III by D. Jones, Cross & Cockade GB, Vol 5, #1, !974, insert Mechanical Drawings and General arrangements.
Fokker Fighters of WWI by A. Imrie, Vintage Warbirds #6, Arms & Armour Press, 1986.
Fokker Monoplanes by J.M.Bruce, Profile Pub.#38, 1965.
‘Fokker Train Atterrissage’ from French Air Service 1916, via Dan San Abbott. General wing arrangements and measurements.
German Army Air Service in WWI by R. Rimell, Vintage Warbirds #2, Arms & Armour Press, 1987.
German Fighter Units 1914- May 1917 by A. Imrie, Osprey Pub. 1978.
‘Kobes in FFA 11' by J. Jacobs, edited by S. Lawson Cross & Cockade Int. Vol. 27, #2, 1996.
‘Kobes in Fosta West’ by J. Jacobs, edited by S. Lawson, Over the Front Vol.9, #4, 1994.
‘Sketches and Descriptions’ by J. Jacobs, edited by S. Lawson, Cross & Cockade Int. Vol.29, #2, 1998.
‘The Flight Log of Ltn. von Hippel’ by J. von Hippel unpublished, 1914-1951.
JackFlash
Colorado, United States
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Posted: Sunday, December 14, 2008 - 11:06 AM UTC
I have done several builds already in the simulated unbleached linen fabric. (By the way the 1/48 Jacobs Fok. E.III recently was given to a fellow who donated 450.00 USD to the Lafayette Foundation). If I find something that catches my eye we may go for something a bit different. The early Eduard kit was the subject for two of my builds.[/COLOR]
This is Jacob's 608/15.
Here is Imelmann's 246/16.
This is Jacob's 608/15.
Here is Imelmann's 246/16.
JackFlash
Colorado, United States
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Posted: Sunday, December 14, 2008 - 07:09 PM UTC
I may have found a problem even before I start.
The production E.I had an 80hp Oberursel (U.0) rotary and wings of 8.95 m in length. The production E.II had the 100hp Oberursel (U.I) and wings of 9.75 m (9520mm.) The E.III had the 100hp Oberursel (U.I) with wings of 9.99 m (10030mm.)
All four of the Eduard kit wings are the same length with only the cowling cut outs different to denote the E.II & E.III types. I will call on our resident engineer Hugh (MerlinV) to help me with the re-scaling in math to cut down one set of wings.
Also the 7 cylinder rotary (representing the U.0 ) in the kit is a dead giveaway that Eduard plans on an earlier version release.
The production E.I had an 80hp Oberursel (U.0) rotary and wings of 8.95 m in length. The production E.II had the 100hp Oberursel (U.I) and wings of 9.75 m (9520mm.) The E.III had the 100hp Oberursel (U.I) with wings of 9.99 m (10030mm.)
All four of the Eduard kit wings are the same length with only the cowling cut outs different to denote the E.II & E.III types. I will call on our resident engineer Hugh (MerlinV) to help me with the re-scaling in math to cut down one set of wings.
Also the 7 cylinder rotary (representing the U.0 ) in the kit is a dead giveaway that Eduard plans on an earlier version release.
Posted: Sunday, December 14, 2008 - 08:15 PM UTC
Hi Stephen
Maybe this is what Eduard were referring to in their latest Newsletter:
"The only possible drawback with this kit is its long development time of three years. During that span, there was a lot of research development, but we weren’t able to apply all the new knowledge to our kit. So, if you will find some discrepancies comparing our kit with the newest drawings, be discreet with your criticisms. Historical research is so fast these days that it is difficult to incorporate all of them into a kit with a longer development period. Our effort to include the newest research delayed our Fw 190D project; remember the troubles with the landing gear wells. It is always a tough decision. to stop a project and restart again, and I simply decided not to change the Eindecker design despite new research revelations."
Looking forward to seeing your Review and notes on building the kit accurately.
All the best
Rowan
Maybe this is what Eduard were referring to in their latest Newsletter:
"The only possible drawback with this kit is its long development time of three years. During that span, there was a lot of research development, but we weren’t able to apply all the new knowledge to our kit. So, if you will find some discrepancies comparing our kit with the newest drawings, be discreet with your criticisms. Historical research is so fast these days that it is difficult to incorporate all of them into a kit with a longer development period. Our effort to include the newest research delayed our Fw 190D project; remember the troubles with the landing gear wells. It is always a tough decision. to stop a project and restart again, and I simply decided not to change the Eindecker design despite new research revelations."
Looking forward to seeing your Review and notes on building the kit accurately.
All the best
Rowan
JackFlash
Colorado, United States
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Posted: Monday, December 15, 2008 - 07:27 AM UTC
I had another response as well.
Greetings Josef;
You are right in your assumption. When the E.II was inservice many were refitted with the longer wings. This simply gave it a higher ceiling. But the official designation was still the smaller wing area.
Quoted Text
Stephen,
Eduard appears to have based their wing spans on Peter Grosz's assertion in the E.I/E.II Datafile that the E.IIs and E.IIIs in operational use carried wings of the same span. Close scrutiny of their geometry (location of the rigging points and their relationship to the national markings) in the available photos bears this out.
I have noticed from the sprue-shots that the "squared" cowling cheek that Eduard have included resemble that used on the E.I rather than the E.II. The E.I's lower edge is roughly level with the bottom of the cowling. The E.II closely follows the contour of the chin, going down to the lower longeron.
I hope Eduard is not intending to use this fuselage for the E.I, as the M5 is considerably different from the M14.
Greetings Josef;
You are right in your assumption. When the E.II was inservice many were refitted with the longer wings. This simply gave it a higher ceiling. But the official designation was still the smaller wing area.
Kalt
Mendoza, Argentina
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Posted: Monday, December 15, 2008 - 07:38 AM UTC
Quoted Text
When the E.II was inservice many were refitted with the longer wings. This simply gave it a higher ceiling. But the official designation was still the smaller wing area.
The same kind of problem that I am having trying to identify Morane-Saulniers Type G from the Type H.....
JackFlash
Colorado, United States
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Posted: Monday, December 15, 2008 - 08:03 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi Stephen
Maybe this is what Eduard were referring to in their latest Newsletter:
"The only possible drawback with this kit is its long development time of three years. During that span, there was a lot of research development, but we weren’t able to apply all the new knowledge to our kit. So, if you will find some discrepancies comparing our kit with the newest drawings, be discreet with your criticisms. Historical research is so fast these days that it is difficult to incorporate all of them into a kit with a longer development period. Our effort to include the newest research delayed our Fw 190D project; remember the troubles with the landing gear wells. It is always a tough decision. to stop a project and restart again, and I simply decided not to change the Eindecker design despite new research revelations."
Looking forward to seeing your Review and notes on building the kit accurately.
All the best
Rowan
Greetings Rowan
Eduard is known for its thorough research practices. Their Sopwith Camel being the prime example. They tossed out an entire set of drawings to go back and get it right. The Fok. Dr.I took just as long to develop. For their second run at the Fok. E. III type this has minor concerns.
SEDimmick
New Jersey, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 - 02:58 AM UTC
Fedex should be dropping this kit off this afternoon to me...going to be my first WWI build, but not my last...I already have a Eduard DH2, Eduard Fokker D.VII dual combo, Roden Fokker D.VII, Eduard Albaltros D.II and D.III in my closet ready to be built, all in 1/48 scale.
thegirl
Alberta, Canada
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Posted: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 - 03:13 AM UTC
I did order my at the HS , but I have some time to wait , still waiting for the Spad !
You have a good collection so far Scott . And welcome to the string baggers
You have a good collection so far Scott . And welcome to the string baggers
SEDimmick
New Jersey, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, December 16, 2008 - 11:38 AM UTC
I was just going though the kit this afternoon when I got home from work...and noticed a problem with the decals...I'm planning on building Ernst Udet's Bird and the #19 decal that goes on the upper fuselage has the number 19 printed on it, instead of next to it!
JackFlash
Colorado, United States
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Posted: Thursday, March 05, 2009 - 08:14 AM UTC
Here is a bit of fun from a fellow modeler. He goes by "Luba".
Posted: Thursday, March 05, 2009 - 08:39 AM UTC
Hi Stephen
I have just browsed through this thread and I wondered if there are any AM decals for the E.II /E.III. I would love to build Immelmanns bird, as I served with AG 51 "Immelmann" and I am from Schwerin ... two good reasons i guess
Mulzer, Parschau or other early knights of the PM would be nice too
TIA
all the best
Steffen
I have just browsed through this thread and I wondered if there are any AM decals for the E.II /E.III. I would love to build Immelmanns bird, as I served with AG 51 "Immelmann" and I am from Schwerin ... two good reasons i guess
Mulzer, Parschau or other early knights of the PM would be nice too
TIA
all the best
Steffen
CaptainA
Indiana, United States
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Posted: Thursday, March 05, 2009 - 02:47 PM UTC
AM decals for von Althaus would really be nice also.
Dwaynewilly
New York, United States
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Posted: Thursday, March 05, 2009 - 03:27 PM UTC
Carl,
Here, here ... I second the motion.
Dwayne
Here, here ... I second the motion.
Dwayne
JackFlash
Colorado, United States
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Posted: Thursday, March 05, 2009 - 05:19 PM UTC
I used Microscale's railroad letters & numbers decals for Jacobs (608/15) & Immemann's (246/16.)
CaptainA
Indiana, United States
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Posted: Saturday, March 07, 2009 - 10:45 AM UTC
I am looking forward to building it up. Mine is on the way.
JackFlash
Colorado, United States
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Posted: Thursday, June 25, 2009 - 06:14 PM UTC
I have acquired some of the upto date research that Eduard mentioned in its newsletter. To be honest here There is nothing that can not keep me from this kit is more than adequate. So in the coming days we will get on with this little kite.
JackFlash
Colorado, United States
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Posted: Friday, July 10, 2009 - 05:28 PM UTC
Here are most of the references I have gathered on the subject.
‘Althaus !’by S. Lawson, Cross & Cockade Int. Vol. 20, #1, 1989.
Eisernes Kreuz und Balken Kreuz by H. Nowarra, Hoffmann Pub. 1968.
Fokker E.III by R. Rimell, Windsock Datafile 15, Albatros Pub. Ltd.
Fokker Eindecker E.III by D. Jones, Cross & Cockade GB, Vol 5, #1, !974, insert Mechanical Drawings and General arrangements.
Fokker Fighters of WWI by A. Imrie, Vintage Warbirds #6, Arms & Armour Press, 1986.
Fokker Monoplanes by J.M.Bruce, Profile Pub.#38, 1965.
‘Fokker Train Atterrissage’ from French Air Service 1916, via Dan San Abbott. General wing arrangements and measurements.
German Army Air Service in WWI by R. Rimell, Vintage Warbirds #2, Arms & Armour Press, 1987.
German Fighter Units 1914- May 1917 by A. Imrie, Osprey Pub. 1978.
‘Kobes in FFA 11' by J. Jacobs, edited by S. Lawson Cross & Cockade Int. Vol. 27, #2, 1996.
‘Kobes in Fosta West’ by J. Jacobs, edited by S. Lawson, Over the Front Vol.9, #4, 1994.
Lafayette Foundation, Denver Co.
‘Sketches and Descriptions’ by J ,Jacobs, edited by S. Lawson, Cross & Cockade Int. Vol.29, #2, 1998.
‘The Flight Log of Ltn. von Hippel’ by J. von Hippel unpublished, 1914-1951. Unpublished.
‘Althaus !’by S. Lawson, Cross & Cockade Int. Vol. 20, #1, 1989.
Eisernes Kreuz und Balken Kreuz by H. Nowarra, Hoffmann Pub. 1968.
Fokker E.III by R. Rimell, Windsock Datafile 15, Albatros Pub. Ltd.
Fokker Eindecker E.III by D. Jones, Cross & Cockade GB, Vol 5, #1, !974, insert Mechanical Drawings and General arrangements.
Fokker Fighters of WWI by A. Imrie, Vintage Warbirds #6, Arms & Armour Press, 1986.
Fokker Monoplanes by J.M.Bruce, Profile Pub.#38, 1965.
‘Fokker Train Atterrissage’ from French Air Service 1916, via Dan San Abbott. General wing arrangements and measurements.
German Army Air Service in WWI by R. Rimell, Vintage Warbirds #2, Arms & Armour Press, 1987.
German Fighter Units 1914- May 1917 by A. Imrie, Osprey Pub. 1978.
‘Kobes in FFA 11' by J. Jacobs, edited by S. Lawson Cross & Cockade Int. Vol. 27, #2, 1996.
‘Kobes in Fosta West’ by J. Jacobs, edited by S. Lawson, Over the Front Vol.9, #4, 1994.
Lafayette Foundation, Denver Co.
‘Sketches and Descriptions’ by J ,Jacobs, edited by S. Lawson, Cross & Cockade Int. Vol.29, #2, 1998.
‘The Flight Log of Ltn. von Hippel’ by J. von Hippel unpublished, 1914-1951. Unpublished.
thegirl
Alberta, Canada
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Posted: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - 02:13 AM UTC
Has any progress been made with this build yet ?
JackFlash
Colorado, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, August 12, 2009 - 04:25 AM UTC
A friend of mine Josef Scott of Vancover sent me this.
Quoted Text
"OK, here goes. The following are "quick-fix" suggestions that will improve the kit considerably as built as a standard E.III. An E.II or early E.III such as 105/15 would require scratching a few parts particular to the ammunition storage & feed (which are incorrect as provided). An E.I of any stripe (geddit?) would require major surgery.
Eduard Fokker E.III corrections: The "easy" list
- Sand off all internal structure contours on the outside of the fuselage fabric-covering. This is never visible in any photos, other than fabric staining.
- There are no rib tapes or battens on the rudder or elevators, although, in this case, the fabric would conform to the ribs.
- The map case should be removed (good luck) and placed on the port side, next to the seat.
- The cockpit floor should actually extend all the way to the bulkhead behind the seat and is made of plywood, not aluminum. The bulkhead itself is also plywood, if you're inclined to get rid of the lacing.
- The shoulder harness does not have the connecting chest piece and the individual straps are clipped to lugs in the upper back corners of the cockpit. (the lap belts should attach to the lower rear corners)
- An easy detail to add would be the absent fuel lines, going from the rear fuel tank to the fuel controls along the starboard side of the cockpit.
- The rear fuel filler should be off-center to starboard, so use piece C4 and drill a new hole for it.
- The cockpit coaming should extend all the way forward, under the metal side panels.
- The fabric lacing on the underside does not extend all the way back to the aft edge down the center of the fuselage. It only goes back to the forward portion of the tail-skid pylon, where it diverts to the lower longerons and continues beneath these to the fuse knife-edge. There is no lacing under the knife-edge. There is also no lacing under the longerons in front of the stirrups. There may be above the stirrups themselves (it would make sense), but I've yet to see conclusive evidence.
- The fairings attached to the undercarriage struts only go behind the struts, not in front, and all 6 moving pieces should have them. (the "V" shaped pylons were already made of aerodynamic cross-section tubing, although this is not reflected in the kit pieces. The upper pylon is correct)
- skip PE5 for the compass mount - nonesuch
- One sticky issue to deal with is how to depict the various doors & openings in the nose panels. The side-view "doors" were not hinged as molded, but were sliding panels mounted on the inside of the cockpit, and should be recessed, not proud of the fuselage side. The engine maintenance access doors should be the same, but are completely absent. There should be a large open aperture in the lower panel to allow downward viewing. The lower end of the joystick protrudes through this as well. Do you really want to try to fix this? Hmmm.
- Another relatively easy addition would be the wind deflection panel riveted to the chin between the undercarriage struts.
Decals & Markings
- The A9 prop most closely resembles a Heine (correct for the E.III), which carried no decals. B10 kinda looks like a Reschke, for which there are no decals included, but was rather rare anyway. A Garuda would have been a better choice.
- The painting guides show the fuselage bay markings as aluminum. Only the 3 rearmost bays were marked and these were black paint.
- Unfortunately the wing cross decals provided are too large. These were not full chord. The instructions for "Die Erste Kannonen" boxing seem to have addressed this, whereas the Weekend Edition goes back to full chord. Don't know if the actual decals from these 2 kits are the same though.
- The werknummer on the elevator should go in the inner "triangular" portion, not along the trailing edge.
As mentioned, making a truly accurate E.III would require more work, such as addressing flaws in the fuselage and wing shapes, and rib spacing, but that's only for crazy people."
". . .The front edge of the mapcase is clipped to the mid-cockpit vertical frame-member, with the aft edge clipped to a bracing wire. It sits inside of the bracing wires, a bit under half the cockpit height.
I doubt very highly that the plywood was painted. Varnish, I would think.
if you put the port edge of the filler cap on the center line, it would be close.
To make an E.II, you would need to replace the starboard cowling cheek which housed the ammunition. The Eduard part is not the right shape. The bottom of the E.II cheek followed the contour of the chin. The supplied piece resembles the cheek of an E.I with the bottom edge being level with the engine cowling, but still should not be barrel-shaped. It was round at the front to conform to the engine cowling, but flattens toward the rear to end up vertically parallel to the fuselage side. The actual feed to the gun is not open like the later E.III's, but had its own enclosed chute. The upper decking would also need to be amended, as there is no open port to access the (non-existent) internal ammunition storage. There is a trough to view the fuel gauge and the decking has a slightly more arched appearance to it. "
JackFlash
Colorado, United States
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Posted: Friday, August 14, 2009 - 06:12 PM UTC
Now before I start showing my images, here is a taste of old school scratchbuilding by Senor Manel A. Gallart i Lloret .
JackFlash
Colorado, United States
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Posted: Monday, September 07, 2009 - 05:54 PM UTC
Greetings all I have picked up some images from my files on the Fok. Eindeckers that I will be sharing as well. I used them in an article on Oblt. Ernst von Althaus and just found them again. We are almost set to begin this one.
JackFlash
Colorado, United States
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Posted: Sunday, September 13, 2009 - 03:45 PM UTC
Does anyone have a copy of Revi 74? It is a Czech magazine and there is an article about Anslinger in it. "Photo Album 1914–18 – Fokker versus Voisin – a collection of photos taken in East Galicia on August 26, 1916. They depict a German Fokker E.III and Russian Voisin 3. The latter aircraft was forced to land by Leutnant Leopold Anslinger."