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End of the Tomcat?
blaster76
Joined: September 15, 2002
KitMaker: 8,985 posts
AeroScale: 137 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 - 06:47 AM UTC
Sad but apparently true. In my research trying to find out time frames for various configurations on the Enterprise and Nimitz I found this out. The Nimitz no longer has any Tomcats. They have been replaced by the Super Hornet. Date on the post was at the end of March this year. There now seems to be only 1 squadron per carrier on the rest of the active ships and the number per squadron was increased to 14 from 12. I guess the Navy plans to phase out the Tomcat with the super Hornet as more and more of those are produced
badpony
Joined: March 06, 2003
KitMaker: 67 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 - 02:05 PM UTC
sad but true. The Nimitz's current deployment is the 1st ever with no Tomcats. I just saw pictures online for VFA-102's new Super Hornets, once a Tomcat squadron.
viper29_ca
Joined: October 18, 2002
KitMaker: 2,247 posts
AeroScale: 168 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 - 03:00 PM UTC
Did anyone really expect different? When the E and F models of the Hornet were proposed....they were poised to basically replace all of the AC onboard a carrier.....with the exception of maybe the AWACS....but fighter, bomber, EW, tanker....everything....heck once they get enough built.....it wouldn't surprise me to see the A to D models being replaced with the E and F models.....at least the A and B models!!
Now I am a fan of the Tomcat as much as anyone else....it will be a sad day when they are all gone....and even though it can hold its own in a fight....and now has a new lease on life now that it can ground pound.....but its days are numbered.....with only 1 or 2 common airframes....makes it alot easier on the maintenance crews for the AC, as well as the training crews training the new pilots....only 1 or 2 airframes to train on.....where as before? Heck just in the last gulf war in '91....you had what? F14, F18, A6, EA-6, KA-6, A7, then you still had the COD, and the AWACS as well as the helos......now its going to be F18A to D and F18 E/F, then the COD and AWACS....mind you I would be the first in line to keep the F14 in the mix!!! but at almost 25+ years.....unfortunatly as far as the Navy is concerned...it is in its golden years now!!
Now I am a fan of the Tomcat as much as anyone else....it will be a sad day when they are all gone....and even though it can hold its own in a fight....and now has a new lease on life now that it can ground pound.....but its days are numbered.....with only 1 or 2 common airframes....makes it alot easier on the maintenance crews for the AC, as well as the training crews training the new pilots....only 1 or 2 airframes to train on.....where as before? Heck just in the last gulf war in '91....you had what? F14, F18, A6, EA-6, KA-6, A7, then you still had the COD, and the AWACS as well as the helos......now its going to be F18A to D and F18 E/F, then the COD and AWACS....mind you I would be the first in line to keep the F14 in the mix!!! but at almost 25+ years.....unfortunatly as far as the Navy is concerned...it is in its golden years now!!
mavrick1124
Joined: August 16, 2002
KitMaker: 188 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 - 03:58 PM UTC
A sad day indeed when the Tomcat is retired. I haven't seen any specs on the Super Hornet, but I doubt it could match the Tomcats speed, and further more the ability to carry the fleet defense load a Tomcat could . She will be missed by many, lots of character and one damn fine airplane. 
GIBeregovoy
Joined: May 31, 2002
KitMaker: 1,612 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 - 07:56 PM UTC
For Tomcat fans (including me) and those against it (is there anyone who actually doesn't love the F-14? 
), check this discussion out: http://63.99.108.76/ubb/Forum2/HTML/004537.html - also discusses many things on the Iranian use of the F-14 Tomcat against Iraq during the Iran-Iraq war.
For an in-depth discussion/analysis/status on the Tomcat, check out www.ACIG.org (registration required - which is free)
As for me, I'm going to miss it very very much.
Such a fine plane - I hope many will remain in museums, private collections, and the like, rather than see them destroyed and turned into razor blades and such...
), check this discussion out: http://63.99.108.76/ubb/Forum2/HTML/004537.html - also discusses many things on the Iranian use of the F-14 Tomcat against Iraq during the Iran-Iraq war.For an in-depth discussion/analysis/status on the Tomcat, check out www.ACIG.org (registration required - which is free)
As for me, I'm going to miss it very very much.
Such a fine plane - I hope many will remain in museums, private collections, and the like, rather than see them destroyed and turned into razor blades and such...
TOMCAT14
Joined: October 10, 2002
KitMaker: 312 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 - 08:40 PM UTC
Guys don't be so sad , For me F-14 is the best fighter ever fly in the sky and it will be still flying to 2007 when last three Sqn. transition to F-18E/F so the last one will be VF-143, VF-11 and VF-31 - My best Sqn. VF-103 better known Jolly Roger will end it's fly on F-14 in 2005 - this is sad( Skulls disapire from Tomcat Tails) , but as we know history of Pirate we will see them on F-18 tails , but it won't be the same
For every Tomcat's Maniac's - F-14 stays always - please join us at
http://f-14association.com/
brandydoguk
Joined: October 04, 2002
KitMaker: 1,495 posts
AeroScale: 643 posts
Posted: Wednesday, June 04, 2003 - 11:17 PM UTC
Slightly off topic I know but the British Government is planning to withdraw the Sea Harrier from it's carriers in a few years. The aircraft will be due for re-engining and the cost will be prohibitive. The problem is that the replacement, the JSF, will not be entering service until some years after so the fleet will be without adequate fighter cover until then. The plans are to use Harrier GR9s armed with sidewinders to plug the gap but it still seems a step backwards to me, especailly when it has been proved time and again the vulnerability of ships to air attack. At least the US wil be replacing the tomcat with an aircraft which can do the job adequately. It will be a shame when the F14 goes due to the fact that the tomcat is one awsome aircraft, both in looks and capability.
NimitzFan
Joined: October 24, 2002
KitMaker: 191 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 03:37 AM UTC
Quoted Text
sad but true. The Nimitz's current deployment is the 1st ever with no Tomcats. I just saw pictures online for VFA-102's new Super Hornets, once a Tomcat squadron.
Not quite true. Her first two deployments had F-4's instead of F-14's. However, on both deployments one of the F-4J squadrons was VF-31Tomcatters so technically the statement is correct.
blaster76
Joined: September 15, 2002
KitMaker: 8,985 posts
AeroScale: 137 posts
Posted: Thursday, June 05, 2003 - 07:25 PM UTC
You are such a clown Nimitzfan. That was quite funny 
My puzzlement now is , What type of aircraft will come with the kit when Trumpeter releases it? Do you think they'll make some Super Hornets? I know the White Ensign Models has some. They want somewhere around $15 for two
My puzzlement now is , What type of aircraft will come with the kit when Trumpeter releases it? Do you think they'll make some Super Hornets? I know the White Ensign Models has some. They want somewhere around $15 for twoNimitzFan
Joined: October 24, 2002
KitMaker: 191 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Friday, June 06, 2003 - 12:22 AM UTC
I try to spread the humor around.
By the time they get around to issuing these kits they will need to include F-18E's. My fear is that they will reuse the Tamiya aircraft. I hope they do make new aircraft because their current stuff is outstanding.
By the time they get around to issuing these kits they will need to include F-18E's. My fear is that they will reuse the Tamiya aircraft. I hope they do make new aircraft because their current stuff is outstanding.
modelcitizen62
Joined: May 13, 2002
KitMaker: 326 posts
AeroScale: 273 posts
Posted: Friday, June 06, 2003 - 12:15 PM UTC
Okay, this is one subject that spikes my blood pressure.
I was a civilian technician with the Aviation Physiology Training Unit at NAS Norfolk back in 1988 when the F-14D prototype demonstrator visited Norfolk and Oceana.
I'd grown up in Norfolk in the mid 1970's and remembered the days when it seemed like a Tomcat a week was going down off the coast because of some variation of TF-30 failure.
The day the 14D was on the Norfolk flight line, it was almost like that moment when Galland flew the Me 262 and pronounced it was "as if angels were pushing." Pilots were climbing under, over and around her like this was the Tomcat they were supposed to have gotten 10 years earlier - and it was.
For everyone who thinks the F-15E was THE ultimate multi-role fighter, the F-14D in 1988 was probably not far from the same level of development as the Strike Eagle at that time.
At the same time, the A-12 Avenger project was tanking, and Grumman had also come up with an A-6F Super Intruder that would have kept a solid interim all-weather attack capability on U.S. carrier decks until something better was developed. The F-14D was quite possible that something better - imagine having the equivalent of an F-14's fleet air defense capability with the all-weather penetration/strike capability of an F-111 or Tornado.
Grumman and Naval Air Depot Norfolk were geared to recycle F-14A's into D's at a great price, and it was quite possible that the bulk of the Tomcat force could have been upgraded by the mid to late 1990s.
Don't get me wrong - the Hornet was a pretty good follow-on after the A-7, even with the range issues (hard to gripe too much about payload when you can deliver the bombs and rockets more accurately and be able to fight your way in and out if need be).
But, when then-SecDef Dick Cheney pulled the plug on the F-14D and A-6F, I truly think he did the Naval Aviation community the ultimate disservice.
To this day I don't know whether to consider Cheney a blithering idiot or an enemy of the American people, because he paved the way for a jet-age replay of the 1920's and early '30's with the Super Hornet. For all the effort and time put into developing the Super Hornet, we get a deck full of jets minus the tanker capacity of the Intruder community.
We also get an air wing that is more and more dependent on USAF tanker assets in order to operate and, when the tankers aren't there, air wings with maybe the same or less striking range than a mid WW II air group.
I for one feel like we're seeing something almost as bad as when Sec Def. Louis Johnson wanted to eliminate Naval Aviation in favor of land-based bombers. Hope it doesn't take another long, bloody "police action" to bring folks to their senses.
This is definitely just my two cents worth. I think I'll go take my blood pressure meds now.
I was a civilian technician with the Aviation Physiology Training Unit at NAS Norfolk back in 1988 when the F-14D prototype demonstrator visited Norfolk and Oceana.
I'd grown up in Norfolk in the mid 1970's and remembered the days when it seemed like a Tomcat a week was going down off the coast because of some variation of TF-30 failure.
The day the 14D was on the Norfolk flight line, it was almost like that moment when Galland flew the Me 262 and pronounced it was "as if angels were pushing." Pilots were climbing under, over and around her like this was the Tomcat they were supposed to have gotten 10 years earlier - and it was.
For everyone who thinks the F-15E was THE ultimate multi-role fighter, the F-14D in 1988 was probably not far from the same level of development as the Strike Eagle at that time.
At the same time, the A-12 Avenger project was tanking, and Grumman had also come up with an A-6F Super Intruder that would have kept a solid interim all-weather attack capability on U.S. carrier decks until something better was developed. The F-14D was quite possible that something better - imagine having the equivalent of an F-14's fleet air defense capability with the all-weather penetration/strike capability of an F-111 or Tornado.
Grumman and Naval Air Depot Norfolk were geared to recycle F-14A's into D's at a great price, and it was quite possible that the bulk of the Tomcat force could have been upgraded by the mid to late 1990s.
Don't get me wrong - the Hornet was a pretty good follow-on after the A-7, even with the range issues (hard to gripe too much about payload when you can deliver the bombs and rockets more accurately and be able to fight your way in and out if need be).
But, when then-SecDef Dick Cheney pulled the plug on the F-14D and A-6F, I truly think he did the Naval Aviation community the ultimate disservice.
To this day I don't know whether to consider Cheney a blithering idiot or an enemy of the American people, because he paved the way for a jet-age replay of the 1920's and early '30's with the Super Hornet. For all the effort and time put into developing the Super Hornet, we get a deck full of jets minus the tanker capacity of the Intruder community.
We also get an air wing that is more and more dependent on USAF tanker assets in order to operate and, when the tankers aren't there, air wings with maybe the same or less striking range than a mid WW II air group.
I for one feel like we're seeing something almost as bad as when Sec Def. Louis Johnson wanted to eliminate Naval Aviation in favor of land-based bombers. Hope it doesn't take another long, bloody "police action" to bring folks to their senses.
This is definitely just my two cents worth. I think I'll go take my blood pressure meds now.
shonen_red
Joined: February 20, 2003
KitMaker: 5,762 posts
AeroScale: 543 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 10:55 PM UTC
Sad to say, but I guess it's time for a better one to replace it. We need to increase our fighting force. We don't need outdated planes, they'll just be destroyed easily. Still, old F-14 models can still be used as backups. Wish it will never be scrap metal!
shonen_red
Joined: February 20, 2003
KitMaker: 5,762 posts
AeroScale: 543 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 07, 2003 - 11:03 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Slightly off topic I know but the British Government is planning to withdraw the Sea Harrier from it's carriers in a few years. The aircraft will be due for re-engining and the cost will be prohibitive. The problem is that the replacement, the JSF, will not be entering service until some years after so the fleet will be without adequate fighter cover until then. The plans are to use Harrier GR9s armed with sidewinders to plug the gap but it still seems a step backwards to me, especailly when it has been proved time and again the vulnerability of ships to air attack. At least the US wil be replacing the tomcat with an aircraft which can do the job adequately. It will be a shame when the F14 goes due to the fact that the tomcat is one awsome aircraft, both in looks and capability.
The Harrier is passing away? No Way! I love that jet!
brandydoguk
Joined: October 04, 2002
KitMaker: 1,495 posts
AeroScale: 643 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 08, 2003 - 12:57 AM UTC
I remember as a kid the first time I ever saw the Tomcat. It was on the news in the early to mid 70s and a report was telling that one had been lost over the side of a carrier. I don't remember if it was a landing or take off accident or what but I remember thinking wow, what an amazing looking aircraft. The US navy was keeping away any other vessels while they tried to recover the airframe as it was the height of the cold war and there were Russian "spy trawlers" in the vicinity. The Tomcat had just entered service so I suppose the US didn't want the Russians getting hold of any of their state of the art technology.
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