Hello everybody,

I have just bought a 1/48 Hasegawa Messerschmitt Bf 109G-14 Hartmann and since I consider the paint work really difficult , I would like to receive advice from experieced aircraft modellers. I have found a site with some information but I would like to receive more help, thank you. But first, check out this site, so you can understand what I am talking about
http://204.50.25.179/features00/bf109g14xl_1.htm

These are the possible steps in the painting of the model, correct me if I am wrong:
1) White Tamiya Primer (1 or two coats)
2) Preshading in black of the panel lines and borders
3) Thin coat of matt white (should I? or just go straight to step 4?)
4) Application of the RLM76 to the entire model
5) Application of the RLM75 of RLM76 as seen on the picture
6) Coats of matt white
7) Two coats of Future
8) Decals
9) One coat of Future
10) Washes and weathering
11) Matt varnish (which one should I use for modelmaster acrylics?)

Thank you for your help, I appreciate it

:-) The model shown is excellant. Reading the article, though, is confusing, as the builder doesn't quite explain the process fully


I guess the paint was white? but there is other, darker shading (particularly on the lower fuselage, which would be light blue, under the white) so he might be talking about post shading
To answer your question. Pre-shading in this situation would be a waste of time and effort, unless, as you suggest, going straight to the winter camo. I wouldn't do that as the finished effect would be wrong. The builder in the article has first applied the normal camo, then a thinned coat of white (I would use off white, White with the mearest hint of grey), which is how it would have been done for real. this method will give the best look. The pre-shading affect he has is the camo greys showing through, I think. I know nothing of this scheme but if it's a white whitewash it would hve been applied in the field? If this is the case (for this aircraft) then it would be better to apply the decals before any white. You could then either freehand around the main decals, stenciling would have been painted over, for the most part. Or you could use Blue Tack (silly putty) to mask them, to leave the main camo showing around the edges. Having said that It is entirely possible that the main markings were carefully masked and the whitewash added, for this ace. However unlikely.
I'm not sure if that does answer your question, or makes your delema greater. If you want to replicate the model I guess only the builder can answer your questions. If you have references that show this scheme then with a look at them I could suggest a way to achieve it.
HTH :-)
Mal

DVX and Mal, talk about outrageous fortune . . . . .

Osprey's No. 37 Bf 109 Aces of the Eastern Front has a close-up b&w shot of Hartmann climbing out of this very 109, which he flew as the temporary gruppenkommandeur of I./JG 53.

The heart appears not to have any inscription on it, for starters.

Next, the whitewash appears extremely dense in color, compared to numerous other Luftwaffe a/c in winter finish. It's not perfectly white, but it's well covered.

Some wear is apparent in the photo, but not large patches of scoured-clear camouflage. Base camouflage is visible along the edges of the cockpit opening. Iain Wyllie's color plate on the cover shows a greyer finish to the canopy and windscreen frames, almost as if they were in RLM 66 schwarzgrau finish before being whitewashed. Wyllie also shows the fuselage and upper wing crosses, gruppenkommandeur chevron, fin swastika, "tulip" and rear fuselage yellow band as having been sharply masked before being whitewashed.

I agree with Mal - do the normal period Luftwaffe finish for a G-14 first . This could be the normal RLM 74/75 uppersurfaces with RLM 76 undersides, although there are some variances such as green/brown uppersurfaces. That should be enough to give a relatively uneven finish when you go back over it in whitewash.

Given the Wyllie painting and a few other photos of JG 54 and JG 53 109's in whitewash in the book, I'd probably apply the decals after the whitewash in the case of Hartmann's G-14.

HTH

Thank you for your explanation mate .. but I dont get yet how to get that shades in between pannels and borders that you can see on the model.

Therefore I thought that that was probably a preshade applied prior to the RLM colors were airbrushed. But then I figured out, by looking at the other picture (the fourth, that shows the RLM colors) that there was no preshade!!! So .. I would appreciate if you can explain to me how to get those shadings, as seen on the picture above.
I am getting even more confused now ... please number the painting process, if it's not too much asking.
Thank you VERY much

I don't think I'd go that much for pre-shading on this particular bird. Spraying a thin whitewash over the standard camouflage might give you a better effect in 1/48 scale.

Correct me if I'm wrong:
1) Apply Tamiya's light gray primer to get a darkest effect on the whole thing (compared to the results of a white primer)
2) Spray the original camouflage with the colors RLM 74, 75 and 76
3) Spray very thin matt white coats (with very little light gray on it)
4) 1 Future coat
5) Crosses decals
6) Very thin matt white on the whole thing, covering the crosses lightly
7) 1 Future coat
8) Rest of the decals
9) 1 Future coat
10) Weathering, Chipping, Stains
11) Final matt varnish

Mike,
Should I still preshade the belly of the bird? Since it is going to be covered in Light Blue ...
and if, why not preshade the whole thing? If the whitewash is going to be thin anyway, some of the preshading done may be visible

Thank you

Good point, since the whitewash was for upper surfaces. RLM 66 dark gray is probably as good a preshade color as any for the undersurfaces.

The thing about pre-shading is, it can look great. But you need to look at some period photos to see just how pronounced the effect really is (or isn't) in real life.

HTH

I like to do my preshading in black

With Mikes info on the actual scheme I would not now apply the decals before the "whitewash" coat and would probably not add any Grey to it either. It seams like the photo Mike is talking about was taken when the "whitewash" had not long been applied? I guess that over time it might have weatherd quite badly like all temporary finishes. Because of the way this was apparently applied though (with more care) it is possible that it didn't weather as badly as most. I would actually suggest getting the book Mike has to make up your own mind. Remember, no one is wrong :-) I will be getting this book, as I would like to do this scheme :-)
Based on Mikes new information, and using you list (with a disclaimer):
1) Apply Tamiya's light gray primer to get a darkest effect on the whole thing (compared to the results of a white primer) Not sure why. Either would do?
2) Spray the original camouflage with the colors RLM 74, 75 and 76 Yes.As Mike suggests, pre-shading will work on the underside (assuming the white doesn't wrap around?)
3) Spray very thin matt white coats (with very little light gray on it) I now don't think the Addition of Grey to be necessary. You might want a bit thicker coat, but let the camo colours show through as pre-shading, plus a few areas that might have been weathered, wing/tailplane leading edges, walk areas, fueling points, etc
4) 1 Future coatYes, or 2?
5) Crosses decalsYes. I would still assume that stencilling was painted over, so I would leave it off? Mike?
6) Very thin matt white on the whole thing, covering the crosses lightly No.
7) 1 Future coatYes, or 2
8) Rest of the decalsNo?
9) 1 Future coatNot now required
10) Weathering, Chipping, StainsTo some extent. Remember, the original weathered airframe has effectively been re-painted white. This is the paint to be weathered and as we are assuming it to be fairly new, I think? chips would be minimal and show the underlying camo. Fuel spills, and exhaust and gun stain would possibly be in evidence
11) Final matt varnish Yep
HTH
Mike take a look please and confirm, I'm getting confused
Mal

Mal, it looks like a plan.

In the Osprey photo, handhold stenciling is noticeably absent. Most photos of Luftwaffe a/c in winter paint have it on the upper surfaces only, so any normal underside stenciling is probably going to remain intact while upper surface stenciling is likely going to be covered as a matter of convenience. Wyllie depicts the yellow octane triangle on the upper port fuselage (just aft and above the upper rear corner of the kommandeur's chevron) as remaining, however.

Using the photo as a guide, the whitewash is VERY matte. Luftwaffe paints from the period are typically satin or a semi-gloss on the side of matte. Just something to keep in mind.

One very noticeable thing on the Wyllie painting - mud staining on the wing root.

The fuselage crosses may seem like they were misted with whitewash, but that is more likely the green (RLM 70 or 71?) or gray used on the fuselage balkankreuz as a low-viz measure late in the war.

Another thing that seems to be missing on the model photo you're using as a guide - the yellow Hungarian front chevron under the port wing that wraps around the upper leading edge. Wyllie also depicts this in his painting. A good example of this marking (a recognition aid for German ground forces to avoid shooting down low-flying friendlies) is on the National Air and Space Museum's Fw 190F.

And if it can't get any more confusing, Wyllie depicts Hartmann's G-14 with a single recessed trim tab on the large tail instead of the two tabs standing proud of the rudder trailing edge.

Also, the dorsal DF loop fairing WITHOUT a loop is depicted by Wyllie.

That's my US $0.02 worth.

HTH

If I am using modelmaster acrylics for the RLM's, which paints would you use for the whitewash? Do you think that tamiya acrylics (diluted with Isopropynol rubbing alcohol) will do?

I'm more an enamel guy myself, but I'd say any good acrylic with a final matte sealer would work. That's the unusual thing about Hartmann's bird - the finish looks sprayed and smooth.

Enjoy.

I use enamels only when paintbrushing, because I like its consistency. But with airbrushes, I try not to use enamels ...

i would use testors enamel paint and stroke verry lightly be cautious with the glue because otherwise the plane will turn into molten plastic blub belive me ive only done 2 planes and ones landing gear is really messed up but im getting a new kit this weekend and ill take my time as my best friend dave says

I finally got to the part where I have to give the white coat the the already painted model (with the RLM 74/75/76 camo). I am going to apply testors enamel's diluted with MM/testor's enamel solvent which recommeds for a matt finish to apply 3 parts paint and 1 part thinner. What concentration of white:thinner should I use to get the effect that Xavier Lena got on his G14 using gunze? If anyone tryied this effect on their "gunherz" Fw's or german birds please express you experience ..

Thank you .... JG26_BoarHead