Hi all
I found these photos and was intrigued by the stripes. They don't look like invasion stripes which is hardly surprising as the date given for the photos is April 1943.
Was it common practice for this style of stripe to be applied so early in the war?
Only asking as a matter of interest as I don't plan on building any Typhoons any time soon!
Thanks folks
Steve

The first two combat losses of the Typhoon were the result of friendly fire when two Canadian Spitfires, scrambled to intercept the same planes the Typhoons had been scrambled to intercept, shot down both aircraft over the English Channel. The profile of the Typhoon resembled a Fw 190 from some angles, and this similarity caused more than one "friendly fire" incident with Allied anti-aircraft units and other fighters. This led to Typhoons being marked up with high visibility black and white stripes under the wings, a precursor of the markings applied to all Allied aircraft on D-Day.
Andy

Thank you Andy, that makes perfect sense.
Steve
Canadians Eh.
(only joking!)

Rehearsals going well then Stonar
Nige

Well they're going. Should have started a final dress at 4 o'clock and chezza just walked past in her dressing gown. 5 birds getting ready for a night out - go figure
Steve

On 1st June 1942 two 56 Sqn Typhoons were shot down by Canadian Spitfires who misidentified them as Fw 190s. Several months, and incidents later, in November, black stripes were ordered to be painted on the undersides of Typhoons’ wings. That they were confined to the under surfaces and the orders were issued very shortly after a series of incidents with coastal defence AA guns points to them being for ground to air recognition rather than air to air. In fact Typhoons were already carrying recognition markings at this time.



The first recognition markings applied to Typhoons were 12 inch chord-wise Yellow bands painted around the wings inline with the inner cannon, similar to those applied to Mustangs at that time. Sometimes called ‘Dieppe stripes’, they were introduced after Operation Jubilee not for it. Typhoons were kept on the fringe of the action, and one was shot down by Spitfires on its way home, the forth in three months lost in this manner. This incident and that the Yellow bands applied to Mustangs taking part in Operation Jubilee were considered to be a success may have had some bearing on them being adopted for Typhoons. The 609 Sqn ORB records that their Typhoons were painted with one foot wide yellow bands on 29th September 1942, six weeks after Operation Jubilee.

In October 1942 609 Squadron moved to Biggin Hill in 11 Group. Here they were in the forefront of the action against tip-and-run raiders attacking South Coast targets. After a number of near misses with coastal AA a 609 Sqn Typhoon was shot down on 31st October. 11 Group acted quickly to provide distinctive markings for the benefit of the gunners, issuing a signal on 2nd November that ordered all 11 Group Typhoons engaged on patrol over South Coast of England. “Under surface port and starboard wings to be painted with black stripes 12 inches wide fore and aft from root of wing to inboard end of aileron. Sinner and remainder of nose as far as rear radiator to top of cowling behind spinner white for head-on recognition.” 609 Squadron reported their Typhoons fully marked by 8th November.

Initially these marking applied to 11 Group only, but on 19th November the instruction was extended to all Typhoons. The black stripes were seemingly not effective enough and 11 Group ordered the addition of white stripes to fill the spaces between the existing black stripes. The white noses were disliked by pilots. Whilst they may have been effective in alerting coastal gunners they were equally effective in identifying them to the enemy. The white noses were painted out by order dated 5th December and Typhoons outside of 11 Group ordered to have white stripes between the black ones.






There are very few photographs of operational Typhoons with white noses and none of 609 Sqn. There is however, a marking peculiar to 609 Sqn in several photographs taken after the removal of the white noses. A white strip retained under the radiator fairing, the width of the radiator flap.



During this time the Yellow bands on the upper surfaces of the wings remained in place. After reports that Fw 190s had similar bands, 11 Group ordered their removal on 3rd February 1943. This seems to have been peculiar to 11 Group as photographs of 257 Sqn Typhoons (in 10 Group) taken in May 1943 show they still had them. When 609 Sqn took over 56 Squadron’s (12 Group) Typhoons in July 1943 the diarist remarked that the Typhoons still had the yellow wing bands which had been, “decreed to be removed six moths ago”.



Black and white stripes on both surfaces of the wings were used for Operation Starkey 9th September 1943. They were deemed to have been a success and are probably the main influence for the similar marking adopted for Operation Overlord, D-Day.

Really enjoyed this thread.
Easy to understand explanations and full of great info.

Many thanks to all of you and love the pics.
Peter

These photos make me want to build a Typhoon so badly! Especially the photo with the Pilot's hand on the radiator intake. I've been distracted from work by looking online for the best car-door Tiffy kits...

I'm returning to this old thread as I'm researching R8224- I plan to make it in 1/72 from the Pavla kit, using home-printed transfers, as I don't think any have been made. I'd like to do it at the time this photos were taken with the white nose.

Antoni (or anyone else)- you seem to suggest that this aircraft would still have had the yellow band on the wings in line with the inner cannons, but in these photos I can't see them. Did this aircraft carry those bands at this time?

Also, isn't it strange it had no squadron codes in the photos? It was US-X, I believe.

The photographs of R8224 were taken at the factory. R8224 was a presentation aircraft called Land Girl. Presentation aircraft were paid for by donation, which could be from an individual, a group, a fund set up to specifically to raise money for that purpose, or an organisation, company etc. The donor was allowed to choose a name for the aircraft which had to be approved. Company names were not allowed but some such as Everready did get through. The donor of R8224 is not known. The name would be applied at the factory in two inch Medium Sea Grey characters on both sides of the fuselage. In some cases a crest was allowed. For example aircraft named after cities, towns, boroughs and sometimes organisations. The crest would be supplied by the donor in the form of a type of decal to be applied by the factory. The aircraft would then be photographed and a copy sent to the donor. These were sometimes printed in a local newspaper. The donor might also be given some details of its service but never which squadron or squadrons it served with or the names of the pilots.

The first photograph is a typical Hawker presentation photograph. The chap in it is highly unlikely to be the pilot; most probably he could not even fly. The photograph has a very strong resemblance to those of Hurricanes. With Hurricanes they were very naughty at the factory. They would take a Hurricane put the serial number and presentation name on it, dress up a non-flying member of staff in flying gear and a take photograph of him posing with the Hurricane. Then they would change the serial number and name and take another photograph and continue this way until they had completed a whole batch of presentation aircraft. It is impossible to know how many of these photographs are of the actual Hurricane of not but in some cases the serial number is for a completely different mark than the one in the photograph.

Since the Typhoon was being mistaken for FW 190's, both by air and ground friendly forces, these stripes were added as a form of identification.

Antoni: Great, your information solves that mystery (why it has no squadron code or the yellow stripes)!

I a 99% sure that 'Land Girl' was donated by the Women's Land Army. The crest in the the middle of the name matches theirs ( a bundle of wheat in a circle with a crown on top).

I recounted Antoni's tale of "sharp practices" with regard to factory staged publicity photographs to SWMBO who works in public relations. Her comment,"some things never change"
Steve

In September 2006 a friend asked me if I knew anything about this Spitfire. My research revealed two things wrong with this picture.

First the location. Liverpool Docks or the Wirral would be more appropriate. I am sure the brewery’s marketing department were anticipating an illustrious history for the aircraft but the truth is that during its one month’s sojourn with the Poles Toby was based solely at Speke. No white cliffs in that part of the world. By this time a Mk I like Toby would no longer be considered good enough for front line duties and so allocated to resting squadrons in a relatively quiet backwater. Unfortunately, the “Gifts of War” book from Air Britain gives a misleading account of its history while with the Polish Air Force.

According to the authors, Toby was assigned to 303 Squadron on 12th September 1941 from 31 MU. On 6th October it transferred to 306 (Polish) Squadron because 303 Squadron converted to Hurricanes and on 15th October it transferred to 61 OUT because 306 Squadron were reequipping with Spitfire Mk Vs. They also say that this all happened in the Polish Wing at Northolt. As they say in my part of the World. “It’s backuds way abart.” The following is what actually happened.

On 31st July 1941 303 Squadron moved to Speke for respite, leaving behind their Spitfires at Northolt. At the same time 315 Squadron left Speke to replace 303 Squadron at Northolt. They also left their Hurricanes behind at Speke. At Speke 303 Squadron commenced operations with 315 Squadron’s old Hurricane Is on the 21st July (routine patrols and convoy protection). The last Hurricane sortie was on 24th August. Two days later they commenced operations with Spitfire Is, the last taking place on the 1st October.

Meanwhile, back at Northolt all the squadrons of the Polish Wing (306, 308, and 315) began converting to Spitfire Mk VBs in early September.

On the 6th October 303 Squadron returned to Northolt, swapping places with 306 Squadron who were due for a rest. Once again the squadrons left their aircraft behind when they moved. At Speke 306 squadron adopted 303 Squadron’s Spitfire Is and at Northolt 303 Squadron were given Spitfire VBs.

306 Squadron’s rest period came to an end on 12th December 1941 when they replaced 316 Squadron at Church Stanton, 316 Squadron moving to Northolt. On leaving Speke 306 Squadron handed over its Spitfire Is to Woodvale where they were passed on to 308 Squadron. At Church Stanton 306 Squadron received Spitfire VBs.

Obviously, as Toby joined 303 Squadron on 12h September 1941, it was one of the Spitfire Is that replaced the old 315 Squadron Hurricanes at Speke. It was transferred to 306 Squadron when they swapped bases with 303 Squadron but why it was transferred to 61 OTU on 15th October I do not know. It could not have been because 306 Squadron were reequipping with Spitfire VBs as that did not happen for another two months and at another location.

The second fault is that the artist has depicted Toby with large chessboards. It was not until early 1942 that 303 Squadron adopted chessboards. 303 did not have chessboards on their Spitfire Is and IIs, only their squadron badge. There are some photographs of 303 Squadron Hurricanes with chessboards but those were transfers from another Polish squadron.

The artist told me he was new all of this but “this was the way the marketing department wanted it painted”. At the time, September 2006, the brewery’s website even claimed that they donated Toby to 303 Squadron even though they must know that on 22nd June 1941 it was first allocated to 411 Squadron RCAF.

I was wondering whether anyone knows if Airfix had any evidence when they designed the box art for their original black box version of their 1/72 Typhoon (see this page for a photo of the box). The upper camouflage is dark earth and dark green, the the underside has yellow and black stripes, with thin red stripes in the middle of the black ones. There is a yellow band on the tail. I think the scheme is total fiction- any evidence as to what they based it on?