Hai folks

I got a question from an archeologist that some specialists here might be able to reply (or point to the correct sources for the reply)

"Which german air untis were covering Messines ridge in the lead up to the battle of Messines in Flandern; Belgium"

Apparently, arechologists don't know everything; it would be brill to show that a modeller community is well informed

Dates man dates! I need dates to speak specifically. The Jastas on the Ypres sector late May early June 1917 were - Jastas 8, 18, 28 & Marine Feld Jasta 1. Now if your talking 2 seaters thats different of course.

The FA, FAA and Schutzstafflen were numerous indeed.

Ok I enlisted the help of some other research fiends. Here is what they wrote back.

". . .The Messines (7-14 Jun 17) attack was carried out by British Second Army. The Corps sqn's in direct support of the attack were: 21 Sqn, 6 sqn, 53 sqn & 42 Sqn backed up by 21 Sqn & 7 Sqn (RE8's & BE2's)

Second Army offensive asset was 11 Wing RFC - 20 Sqn (FE2d), 45 Sqn (Sop-2), 1 Sqn (Nieup), 41 Sqn (FE8 ) 7 46 Sqn (Pups). They were reinforced by 1 Naval & 10 Naval both on Sop Tripes.

In addition 9 Wing RFC provided: 19 Sqn (SPAD), 56 Sqn (SE5), 66 Sqn (Pup), 27 Sqn (G100), 55 Sqn (DH4) & 70 Sqn (Spo-2).

23 Sqn (SPAD) & 40 Sqn (Nieup) from First Army also flew missions over battle area.

On the opposite side was German 4 ARMEE who up to June only had five Jastas - MFJ 1, Js 8, Js 18, Js 28 (though nominally 6 armee) and Ks 8. Also 10 recon - Fa3, FA 6, FA 19, FA 33, FAA 213, FAA 221, FAA 250, FAA 294, MFA I & MFA II.

In the course of the battle they were reinforced by: Js 20, Js 4, Js 10, Js 6, Js 7, Js 11 & Js 26 (in that order) In addition Js 27, Js 30 & Js 33 from 6 Armee also flews patrols over battle area.

2-seater reinforcements look to have included: SS 4, SS 11, SS 17, SS 19, SS 21, SS 23 & SS 30, FA 7, FA 8, FA 26, FA 40, FA 45, FAA 202, FAA 204, FAA 231 and FAA 224.

By end of month Js 27, Js 36, Js 17 & Js 24 had all been attached to German 4 Armee.

As Gen von Hoepner recorded in regards the 1917 Flanders offensives: 'Because of their number and their sporting audacity, the English continued to be our most dangerous adversaries and, as before, the major part of the German air strength was concentrated against them. . ."

See me for abbreviation explanations.

Thanks a lot for the huge effort that you have done.

ooohhh, this will knock their socks of

thanks again

Hai Jackflash,

I got these brownies from the archeologists which I gladly forward:


Wow Thanks -----! That's a cracking list, I had most of the British squadrons but
knowing which planes they were equiped with is a good addition. (Excellent to see
the SE5 in there, as there's a 32 inch model of one in pieces in our livingroom at
the moment!)
I had managed to find a few of the German units, thanks to Alastair and Ian and a
little help from Rod's photographic contribution, but this list is great, I was
missing the reinforcement Jastas and the 2 seaters, a lot of sources I found were
very vague and the book I have on the German Army only lists the ORB at 1914 then
1918, with some hints as to movements cunningly concealed in the text which is a bit
tricky to extract.

Today's Brownie points go to you for finding the info!

Thanks James & Jo for your additional info, and you are right DeHaviland were
British and made a vast array of aircraft based in Hertfordshire, where at the
University in Hatfield you will find a rather nice statue of Sir Geoffrey by Keith
Maddison.

Best Wishes,
Angela