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Albi D.II Rudder cables query
Kornbeef
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England - South East, United Kingdom
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Posted: Saturday, August 14, 2010 - 04:30 AM UTC
Okies, a quick one I hope.

I need to know the routing of rudder cables from the first two pulleys after the rudder bar.

The windsock albi special seems to indicate they return towards the centre but if they do to where, another pair of pulleys and location, they dont feature on the sketch. Or do they just go back along the side of the cockpit instead.

I cant find conclusive evidence either way.

Building and detailing the Encore DII while I wait for the wood to dry on my Roden DIII (OAW)

Any help would be appreciated

Ta Keith
JackFlash
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Posted: Saturday, August 14, 2010 - 05:58 AM UTC
Greetings Keith,

Same as the D.III, D.V & Va. From control column back under the seat through an opening in the rear cockpit screen. Continuing back centerline to the area near the end of the vertical fin out to the rudder control horns
Kornbeef
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Posted: Sunday, August 15, 2010 - 05:16 AM UTC
I understand that much Stephen, I was just trying to work out how they come from the pulleys either side of the rudder horn. The sketch shows them coming back in towards the centre but no detail of where to, beneath the sketch though theres a detail of a paired pulleyset that looks like it would sit on a lower crossmember of the frame. I was just hoping someone could say for certain if that was so before I do it and someone tells me after I post the pics..
JackFlash
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Posted: Sunday, August 15, 2010 - 09:29 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I understand that much Stephen, I was just trying to work out how they come from the pulleys either side of the rudder horn. The sketch shows them coming back in towards the centre but no detail of where to, beneath the sketch though theres a detail of a paired pulleyset that looks like it would sit on a lower crossmember of the frame. I was just hoping someone could say for certain if that was so before I do it and someone tells me after I post the pics..


Are you talking about the aileron pulleys?
thegirl
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Posted: Sunday, August 15, 2010 - 02:47 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I understand that much Stephen, I was just trying to work out how they come from the pulleys either side of the rudder horn. The sketch shows them coming back in towards the centre but no detail of where to, beneath the sketch though theres a detail of a paired pulleyset that looks like it would sit on a lower crossmember of the frame. I was just hoping someone could say for certain if that was so before I do it and someone tells me after I post the pics..


Are you talking about the aileron pulleys?


I think he is talking about the rudder cables on their routeing once the pass the seat on what those pully's look like and mount with the cables leading to the rudder .

Wasn't this the same as the D.III , they did share the same fuselage minus the rabbit ear's ?

You have us confused here Keith
Kornbeef
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Posted: Sunday, August 15, 2010 - 08:27 PM UTC
I'm good at confusing things...LOL

see if I can clarify. the sketches (page 12 Albatros fighters Datafile special)

One shows a pilots eye view of the controls with the rudder bar and 2 pulleys either side which presumably connect to the horn on the rudder bar, the sketch below details that as well as the control column cabling too. the sketch shows the cable running from the horn to the cabls and then returning towards the centre of the A/C but not to where, I just hoped someone could cast light on it, theres a detail on the lower sketch of a twin pulley set that would be just what you expect... maybe I'll trawl Kolomans thread on the aerodrome...the answer might be hidden there somewhere.

Terri, I for one have some thoughts on DII fuselage construction, the (OAW) at least was similar inwardly to the DV in controls, cabling and the structure differed to suit, I have it on good authority and a pic of a crashed DII (OAW) supports this, now whether all DIIIs were built this way I dunno. I know the windsock publicatins never mention this but as we know over time more is beiing discovered about these wonderful machines and the sometimes tiny differences between models and manufacturers.

Keith
JackFlash
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Posted: Monday, August 16, 2010 - 07:06 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I'm good at confusing things...LOL

see if I can clarify. the sketches (page 12 Albatros fighters Datafile special)

One shows a pilots eye view of the controls with the rudder bar and 2 pulleys either side which presumably connect to the horn on the rudder bar, the sketch below details that as well as the control column cabling too. the sketch shows the cable running from the horn to the cables and then returning towards the centre of the A/C but not to where, I just hoped someone could cast light on it, theres a detail on the lower sketch of a twin pulley set that would be just what you expect... maybe I'll trawl Kolomans thread on the aerodrome...the answer might be hidden there somewhere. Keith


Those pulleys are for the ailerons. They travel to the lower leg of the control column and attach there to a post. As the machine is heaved over left or right by the left and right movement of the column the lower leg rolls left or right and thusly moves those aileron cables. Here is a quick diagram.

Kornbeef
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Posted: Monday, August 16, 2010 - 07:30 AM UTC
I believe the pulleys you mention are actually further back just behind the column and beneath tha flat panel of wood beneath the seat in the kit that would fit in with the detail sketch on the lower plate(picture). From there the aireleron cables must run forward to another set right by the fuselage member that has the tank and ammo containers either side of it. from that point entering the lower wings Stephen

what I'm beginning to suspect is that the cables in question do come back to a cableset on the crossmember that has just been left off the sketch. Maybe when I get my mitts on the Kagero book it might cast some light..one hopes.
JackFlash
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Posted: Monday, August 16, 2010 - 07:49 AM UTC
Here are some relevant references.
Albatros D.III (OEF) by Peter Grosz, Windsock Datafile #19.
Albatros Scouts Described, by Chas Schaedel, 1971 Kookaburra Tech. Pub.
Albatros Fighters Datafile Special by Ray Rimell, 1991 Albatros Pub. Ltd.
Albatros D.Va German Fighter of WWI by Robert Mikesh, Smithsonian Inst. Press.

Here is a view from a restored Alb. D.Va.


Now the turnbuckles at the under of the rudder control horns are for providing strength and rigdity to the lower frame. The are attached to the lower end of the bulk head / former and the metal frame work supports ahead of the seat.
Kornbeef
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Posted: Monday, August 16, 2010 - 11:31 AM UTC
yes thats a DVa, similar to a DIII...quite different again from the DI & DII though, The DII column pivots acros the former beneath the pilots thighs, the Horn for want of a better word which shows at the front on the diagram you posted is actually behind the control column its a far simpler construction. Your diagram doesnt feature the Rudder controls at all which are different entirely to the DVa


I scoured Koloman's wonderful thread on "The Aerodrome" and now realise the cables probably do not run back to centre from the pulleys but back along the sides of the cockpit after all.

The confusion is all part of the fun...LOL


Keith
JackFlash
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Posted: Monday, August 16, 2010 - 03:32 PM UTC
Ok let me see if I can put this in a better term. Knowing where the D.Va pulleys are is a clue. The D.Va being a sesqui-plane. The D.II a twin plane layout. The D.Va has cables that exit from the lower wing behind the interplane - Vee strut. The D.II have cables that exit behind the rear most single interplane strut from the lower wing.

Now, if one draws a line through a plan view from rear interplane strut to rear interplane strut you have as you do with the D.Va the intersection of the aileron cables with the needed pulley locations inside the cockpit and you can extrapalate their actual location within the cockpit. Sorry if I was too cryptic.


thegirl
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Posted: Monday, August 16, 2010 - 04:41 PM UTC
Okay you have both lost me here . Are we talking about the control column or are we talking about the rudder bar here ?

I looked in the datafile specail and the datafile on the D.II trying to make sense out of the whole thing and got more confused
JackFlash
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Posted: Monday, August 16, 2010 - 07:22 PM UTC
Essentially we are both confirming the locations of the hardware to minimize the confusion. Forward pulleys are for the ailerons. Keith believes that there is another set that sends the rudder cables down the inside of the fuselage along the interior sides.
Kornbeef
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Posted: Monday, August 16, 2010 - 08:35 PM UTC
Yes you are right on the airleron cables Stephen, all the confusion between models hasnt helped my fuddled brain last night These cables would exit into the wings right behind the former beneath the pilots thighs then.

I think checking Kolomans Replica build helped clarify things for me, A GOOD pic of these pulleys is on page 75 of his DII/DIII news blog that covers his builds and in the text he makes mention and shows these rudder cable pulleys. The former is a different shape than Rodens but its not very visible once the kits buttoned up and I have that area built as a unit already

Terri

The pics I'm talking about are in the Albatros Fighters datafile special, a little out of date now but still full of details
Page 12 right side, the lower detail sketch shows the control column and the rudder bar assembly..note the cables from the rudder assembly lead out side to side unlike the DV and DVa model which is more conventional.

Now the sketch above showing the pilots view you can see two pulleys attached to short noggins between fuselage formers (the foremost of which isnt included in the kit) which line up with the location of the front of the control horn on the rudderbar assembly.
I know these sketches are for the DI but essentialy they are the same as the DII, I think the change in arrangement came with the DIII and lower wing changes which Stephen has pointed out.

I'm away from home right now. When I reurn weather allowing I'll post some pics of my build to see if it helps clarify..

Keith

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