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Early Aviation
Discuss World War I and the early years of aviation thru 1934.
Roden 1:32 Fok. Dr.I Inquiries
JackFlash
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Posted: Monday, August 16, 2010 - 05:44 AM UTC
I have to check my many personal messages daily. More and more inquiries are coming my way. Here is one that may benefit newer members.


Quoted Text

JF
I have been doing models since I was 8 years old. I haven’t done anything for about five years for whatever reason. At any rate, I watch this special on the Fokker Dr I the other day and for whatever reason it inspired me to build one. I ordered;
Roden’s 1:32 Dr I,
Eduard PE set,
Scale Aviations landing gear conversion,
another conversion kit from Jadar Model’s
Osprey’s book Fokker Dr I Aces of World War I.

So most of the stuff has arrived and I am waiting on a few other things so the easy part is about done. In thinking and researching as many articles and reviews that I can I have a few questions that hopefully you will be so kind to answer. When you look at all the many good models completed there is three things that seem to bother me.

1. The paint jobs are fabulous but the fabric part of the plane looks like metal. Wouldn’t the fabric part be a little rougher?
2. The cockpit is out lined in leather on the original and it seems that modelers don’t put enough effort into that area.
3. Some of the propellers wood representation shows an extreme wood color differences graduating through the propeller.

I read in one of your comments that cockpit magneto & something else is wrong in the model instructions, as well as, the PE instruction sheet.
I am going to paint Dr.I 425/17 in the April markings which leads me to my final question. I saw one representation of the April markings that let the March markings & plane numbers show through on the April markings. Do you believe that is correct?

Thanks for your contribution to the forum.
Phoenixflyer


JackFlash
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Posted: Monday, August 16, 2010 - 06:04 AM UTC

Quoted Text

'. . .When you look at all the many good models completed there is three things that seem to bother me.

1. The paint jobs are fabulous but the fabric part of the plane looks like metal. Wouldn’t the fabric part be a little rougher?
2. The cockpit is out lined in leather on the original and it seems that modelers don’t put enough effort into that area.
3. Some of the propellers wood representation shows an extreme wood color differences graduating through the propeller. . . '




A. I assume you mean the difference between flat or gloss surfaces? The paint used on fabric was different composition than metal. But when a/c left the factories over all gloss was common. Fabric paints were sealed in a varnish or their composition allowed for a sealing agent in the paint. BUT this quickly flattened or lost sheen in service. Mostly this has to do with sun and exposure to the regional elements.

Sometimes machines were repainted in the field. Metal were often repainted in what ever was in the squadron supply hut. Gloss was something both sides began to avoid after 1916. The short answer is it depends on the time inservice you are trying to replicate. Factory fresh, inservice, war weary and etc.

B. There usually is a leather coaming around open cockpits. As to the amount of effort you should apply to this it is upto the modeler. I will usually apply a base coat and then a dark wash to add a bit of shadow. In 1:32 you may want to add a SMALL bit of highlight to the ridge of the coaming but only a small amount to be realistic.

C. All propellers would show pronounced variations in laminations but the varnish is either clear or tinted or even shellac-ed. The clear would be the most obvious. The tinted tends to mute the evidence of sharp differences in the lamination colours. Shellac-ed uniformly covers the whole surface. (The British and especially French did this).
JackFlash
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Posted: Monday, August 16, 2010 - 06:36 AM UTC

Quoted Text

'. . .I read in one of your comments that cockpit magneto & something else is wrong in the model instructions, as well as, the PE instruction sheet.
I am going to paint Dr.I 425/17 in the April markings which leads me to my final question. I saw one representation of the April markings that let the March markings & plane numbers show through on the April markings. Do you believe that is correct?. . ."



D. It had to do with the kit directions and the Aftermarket PE directions being based on the cockpit of Memorial Flight replica. The large Bosch starting magneto was not used on the rotary and the Roden kit has the correct circular version molded to the left side of the cockpit interior. The PE instuctions also showed the wrong magneto in the wrong place. Near the flooring and mounted backwards. Production Fokker Dr.I never had this.

E. Fokker Dr.I 425/17 is known to have been painted over unbleached linen uppersurfaces and the light blue undersurface. Streaked camouflage was not applied to this machine. The light blue was over painted. We have images that show its existence in over all red with the iron crosses in all loctions. Shortly after this the crosses were changed and we have photo images that show this as well.
A.E.Ferko has noted when he "glassed" some original images that he could note the usuall serials painted on the machine under the red. Ed Ferko was a prime source in his life and his records still exist at UTD in the special studies section of the Geo. Williams Blg.

The following refences are still mostly available to the general public. But some must be sought throughonline auctions as they are unavailable today.

References;
Cross & Cockade Int. (GB) Vol. 3 #3, 1973
Cross & Cockade Int. (GB) Vol 6 #3 Fold out Cutaway diagram. 1975.
Cross & Cockade USA Vol 1 #1 p.36 1960
Cross & Cockade USA Vol 5 #1 Pp.1-29, 1964
Cross & Cockade USA Vol18 #2 Pp.164-176, 1977
Cross & Cockade USA. Vol21 #1 Pp. 81-90. Jasta 14, 1980.
Cross & Cockade USA Vol23 #4 Pp.318-334 Baumer & Dr.1 204/17, 1982.
Fighting Triplanes by E. Hadingham, Macmillian Pub. 1968.
Fokker Dr.I, by J.M.Bruce, Profile Pub. #55, 1965
Fokker Dr.I Aces of WW1, by Van Wyngarden/Franks, Osprey Pub. Aircraft of the Aces, series #40, 2001.
Fokker Dr.I ...A Reappraisal by A.Ferko & P.Grosz, Air Enthusiast Eight. Pp. 9-26,
Fokker Dr.I Datafile # 5 by R.Rimell, Albatros Pub. Ltd. 1987.
Fokker Dr.I Drawings by Dan San Abbott, WW1 Aero #122, 1988
Fokker Fighters by A. Imrie, Vintage Warbird Series #6, Arms & Armour Press.1989.
Fokker Dr.I, Flugzeuge die Geschichte Machten by J. Kranzhoff, Motorbuch Verlag, 1994.
Fokker Dr.I Jagdstaffeln by Greg VanWyngarden, Albatros pub. 2007.
Fokker Dr.I Special Datafile by R.Rimell, Albatros Pub. Ltd. 1991.
Fokker Triplane-ology by A. Imrie, C&C Int. Vol.23 #4, Pp.57-64, 1995.
Fokker Triplanes in Service by Dan San Abbott, Over The Front Vol 5.#4 Pp.326-339. 1990.
Fokker Triplane by A. Imrie. Arms & Armour Press. 1992.
German Fighter Units - June 1917-1918 by A. Imrie, Osprey Pub. 1978.
Pictorial History of the German Army Air Service by A. Imrie, Ian Allen Pub., 1971.
JackFlash
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Colorado, United States
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Posted: Monday, August 16, 2010 - 06:56 AM UTC
Roden Fokker References;

D.VI

CaptainA's build

My in the box review.

Hugh Coleman's build F.I

KALT's build MOM

KALT's build thread

Brad C.'s build F.I

Roden reviews page
phoenixflyer
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Oklahoma, United States
Joined: August 15, 2010
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Posted: Monday, August 16, 2010 - 01:56 PM UTC
JF

Thanks for the reply and all the extra information you sent. Let me digest all this and for I am sure will be follow up questions.

PF
phoenixflyer
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Oklahoma, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 12:55 PM UTC
JF
The reference material you listed is quite extensive 22 to be exact. My question is, or maybe I should say a polite request is, could you list the top seven references for a modeler. I must say you have quite an extensive knowledge and background on the Fokker Dr I. We are very fortunate to have the internet for you, as well as, other to share everyone’s vast knowledge.
I have received everything I have ordered for the Dr I but the conversion kit from Jadar Model’s out of Poland. Once I have that I am going to do a photo history of the model from the box to finish. I am going to do that for two reasons (1) to keep me on track & (2) for you to spot errors during the build or anyone else for that matter.
Notice you are from Colorado we have a cabin outside of Colorado Springs in Cascade Colorado. You ever get up that way?
Thanks
PF
JackFlash
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Posted: Tuesday, August 17, 2010 - 01:27 PM UTC
Greetings Greg,

I did put the top 5 in bold print for you. You say that you have Greg VanWyngarden's book on the Dr.I aces. It is a good source I list. Good luck on your build I know we all look forward to it. Model On!
phoenixflyer
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Oklahoma, United States
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Posted: Sunday, September 26, 2010 - 11:15 AM UTC
LET THE GAMES BEGIN –
Well I finally got everything I ordered for the build of The Fokker DRr.I. I thought before we start I would go over some of the tools I will be using during the build. They are as follows:
1. Reference books
2. Tweezers on a stand for holding parts
3. Glass pain for cutting PE parts
4. Miter box
5. Clamps
6. Cutters: (1) sprue cutters (2) wire cutters for separating parts from main sprue
7. Magnifying head set
8. Small files
9. Hand drill
10. Tweezers of all types with duplicates for holding parts
11. Old type drafting pin for applying CA & water downed Gator Glue. If you don’t have one of these get one.
12. Glue & putty box with holders for the glue
13. Sanding tools
14. Mixing box for diluting Gator glue and later for mixing paint
15. Parallel bar for making precise lines in order to line up parts that spread out on the build
16. Drafting triangles to get parts square
17. Great Planes Easy-Touch Hand Sander very flat and you can attach different grit
There are other tools and I will be showing them throughout the build.

JF, I have a photo but I can’t figure out how to do get it on the reply!
JackFlash
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Posted: Sunday, September 26, 2010 - 05:40 PM UTC
Here is an easy way to check that. Find a post with an image hit reply with quote. It will allow you to see the URL of the image. It should usually begin with
http://
followed by www.
and next the image location on a server
then end with an image tag such as .jpg, JPG, gif, tiff or things like that.

The whole affair should have the word "image in brackets at both ends. At the one on the farthest left you will need to put a / between the bracket margine and the word image. Your image has to have a base location. You can upload images to your photo space here. See the PHOTOS tab above.
-RLWP-
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England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
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Posted: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 10:19 AM UTC
The Roden Dr.I builds up OK, watch the wingtips. I got it wrong and fell into the trap. Apart from that you can do as few or as many changes as you want and still end up with a nice 'plane:







I certainly enjoyed my wander through the kit.

Richard
JackFlash
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Posted: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 10:42 AM UTC
I certainly appreciate you posting the images Richard. Cheers to all at Kenilworth!
-RLWP-
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England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
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Posted: Tuesday, September 28, 2010 - 10:55 AM UTC
Thanks Stephen. That was my second WWI build since I was about sixteen, and a bloody sight more enjoyable than the other one. Not a perfect kit, not a perfect build, but good fun all the same

Richard
Mgunns
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Posted: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 - 03:06 AM UTC
HI Richard:

Good Job on the DR-1. I struggled with the cabane struts, I couldn't figure out how to line them up, and am a little gun shy to do another one. I like the way it turned out. Who's airplane is it?

Thanks for showing them.

Best
Mark
-RLWP-
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England - East Anglia, United Kingdom
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Posted: Wednesday, September 29, 2010 - 04:07 AM UTC

Quoted Text

HI Richard:

Good Job on the DR-1. I struggled with the cabane struts, I couldn't figure out how to line them up, and am a little gun shy to do another one. I like the way it turned out. Who's airplane is it?

Thanks for showing them.

Best
Mark



Hi Mark,

I don't remember the cabane struts being too hard, although they were a little long to fit into the brackets on the upper wing. The alignment all came from the outer struts IIRC.

She's Josef Jacob' s mount 470/17:



Glad you like her

Richard

Image from Rosebud's excellent website
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