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Early Aviation
Discuss World War I and the early years of aviation thru 1934.
McCook and Wright Fields P-Numbers
Alanroy
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Posted: Friday, August 27, 2010 - 09:25 AM UTC
Good afternoon,
I've been looking through the 'net for awhile now regarding the P-numbers assigned to the aircraft stationed at McCook and Wright Fields from 1918 through 1930. What started me off on the search was the Roland D-VI Datafile, where the author listed "McCook Photos" in his bibliography.

While I've only come across a few pictures, I did find 3 or 4 lists of the aircraft themselves, all 599 of them, with some small gaps. These are a 1956 issue of the JAAHS, a serial in 3 issues of Skyways magazine from 1978 and 1979, and a couple of websites. For the most part the lists agree, the most numerous differences being the listing of the manufacturers. The DH-4 was designed by de Havilland, but was built by several different firms, so is listed variously as the Aeromarine, Atlantic, Boeing, Dayton-Wright, Fisher, Gallaudet, and LWF DH-4. Similar to a Boeing B-17 being called a Douglas B-17 because it was built at the Douglas plant.

Still looking for the mother lode of pictures, but I did find this one that piqued my curiosity. All lists I’ve seen have P-97 as a Verville VCP-1 or VCPR-1 Racer, SC/AS # 40126. This photo clearly shows the second and third numbers transcribed to 40216. Was the number transcribed in the original McCook file, or did the transcription happen with the JAAHS magazine, and was handed down through the years?

[url]http://www.historicaircraft.org/Golden-Age-Gallery/pages/0-racer-8.html]/url]

Have a great weekend!
Regards,
Alan
JackFlash
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Posted: Friday, August 27, 2010 - 09:40 AM UTC
Excellent Alan!

I for one will be glad to see a thread on the "Project" aircraft surveyed at McCook field. Many of you will note that the Blue rider Insignia book on Foreign service Fokker D.VII has McCook P108 Other well know aircraft were two Fokker D.VIII noted as P168 & P169 post war purchased from Fokker Co. in Holland.

http://www.insigniamag.com/icg27248.html
Alanroy
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Posted: Friday, August 27, 2010 - 09:48 AM UTC
Thank you, Stephen,
I didn't think Blue Rider was even in existence any longer. Would you happen to know what markings are on the 48-scale sheet? I'm looking for both the USAAS and Finnish markings, and of 25 aircraft, the example doesn't show either.
Regards,
Alan
JackFlash
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Posted: Friday, August 27, 2010 - 10:04 AM UTC
Yes I have the 1:48 sheet myself. I'll post some info on it later.
JackFlash
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Posted: Friday, August 27, 2010 - 11:10 AM UTC
Here is the 1:48 sheet.



http://www.insigniamag.com/icg27248.html

Here is the 1:72 sheet.

JackFlash
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Posted: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 - 11:32 AM UTC

Quoted Text

From Dave Watts

". . .Here is part I of my posting of McCook aircraft;

I need some help on this. *There was a list made up of all the Fokker D.VII types listed on the US inventory for 1919. *This list is broken down into Fokker built, OAW built, and Albatros built D.VII airframes. *I have lost my Albatros built list. *To convince someone to post the list, I'll post the Fokker built and OAW built lists. *There were a total of 142 D.VII aircraft on the list; 61 Fokker built, 48 OAW, and 33 Albatros.

I would very much appreciate someone posting the Albatros list......Dan-San?

Here's list nr.1;

FOKKER D.VII (Schwerin-built) [61 of the 142]

Aircraft Nr. * * *Motor Type * * *Motor Nr.
4292/18 * * * * * *Mana IIIa* * * * * * * *12
4330/18 * * * * * *BMW IIIa * * * * * * *1339
5051/18 * * * * * *BMW IIIa * * * * * * *1319
5074/18 * * * * * *Merc. IIIa * * *35691
5088/18 * * * * * *Merc. IIIa * * *43327
5100/18 * * * * * *Merc. IIIa * * *43530
5138/18 * * * * * *Merc. IIIa * * *34561
7605/18 * * * * * *Merc. IIIa * * *36966
7724/18 * * * * * *BMW IIIaO * * *12092
7729/18 * * * * * *BMW IIIa * * * * * * *1626
7730/18 * * * * * *BMW IIIa * * * * * * *1608
7732/18 * * * * * *BMW IIIaO * * *12087
7740/18 * * * * * *BMW IIIa * * * * * * *1575
7744/18 * * * * * *BMW IIIa * * * * * * *1560
7747/18 * * * * * *BMW IIIaO * * *12096
7752/18 * * * * * *Merc. IIIa * * *45771
7753/18 * * * * * *Merc. IIIa * * *45651
7755/18 * * * * * *BMW IIIa * * * * * * *1618
7756/18 * * * * * *Merc. IIIa * * *41152
7757/18 * * * * * *BMW IIIa * * * * * * *1623
7758/18 * * * * * *Merc. IIIa * * *42404
7761/18 * * * * * *BMW IIIa * * * * * * *1633
7762/18 * * * * * *BMW IIIa * * * * * * *1634
7763/18 * * * * * *BMW IIIa * * * * * * *1638
7764/18 * * * * * *BMW IIIa * * * * * * *1630
7765/18 * * * * * *BMW IIIa * * * * * * *1635
7766/18 * * * * * *Merc. IIIa * * *45352
7767/18 * * * * * *BMW IIIa * * * * * * *1632
7768/18 * * * * * *BMW IIIa * * * * * * *1622
7770/18 * * * * * *BMW IIIa * * * * * * *1619
7771/18 * * * * * *BMW IIIa * * * * * * *1621
7772/18 * * * * * *BMW IIIaO * * *12132
7773/18 * * * * * *BMW IIIa * * * * * * *1682
7774/18 * * * * * *Merc. IIIa * * *35691
7775/18 * * * * * *Merc. IIIa * * *45793
7776/18 * * * * * *Merc. IIIa * * *45778
7777/18 * * * * * *Merc. IIIa * * *45638
7780/18 * * * * * *BMW IIIa * * * * * * *1662
7781/18 * * * * * *BMW IIIa * * * * * * *1668
7782/18 * * * * * *BMW IIIa * * * * * * *1661
7783/18 * * * * * *BMW IIIa * * * * * * *1653
7785/18 * * * * * *BMW IIIa * * * * * * *1644
7786/18 * * * * * *BMW IIIa * * * * * * *1671
7787/18 * * * * * *BMW IIIa * * * * * * *1667
7788/18 * * * * * *BMW IIIa * * * * * * *1674
7789/18 * * * * * *Merc. IIIa * * *45704
7790/18 * * * * * *Merc. IIIa * * *45678
7792/18 * * * * * *Merc. IIIa * * *45790
7793/18 * * * * * *BMW IIIaO*** * * *12102
7794/18 * * * * * *BMW IIIa * * * * * * *1675
7795/18 * * * * * *BMW IIIa * * * * * * *1670
7796/18 * * * * * *BMW IIIaO*** * * *12141
7798/18 * * * * * *BMW IIIaO*** * * *12182
7799/18 * * * * * *BMW IIIa * * * * * * *1679
7800/18 * * * * * *Merc. IIIa * * *45657
7802/18 * * * * * *Merc. IIIa * * *45685
7803/18 * * * * * *Merc. IIIa * * *45673
10347/18 * * * * * Mana IIIa* * * * * * * * 23
10348/18 * * * * * Mana IIIa* * * * * * * * 53
10349/18 * * * * * Merc. IIIa * * * *45700
10350/18 * * * * * Merc. IIIa * * * *45659

Opel motor numbers have serial numbers in the 12000 range.

The "Mana IIIa" was a BMW built under license by M.A.N. Augsburg.

I'm going to do a second posting for the OAW D.VII's.

Best,
Dave W.



JackFlash
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Posted: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 - 12:00 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Here is part 2, the OAW built D.VII types.

List Nr.2

Fokker D.VII (OAW built) [48 of 142]

Aircraft Nr. Motor Type Motor Nr.
4635/18
6412/18 Merc. IIIa 44220
8316/18
8322/18
8323/18 Merc. IIIa 40715
8331/18
8336/18
8338/18
8342/18
8345/18 Merc. IIIa 45590
8357/18
8392/18
8396/18
8403/18
8414/18
8425/18 Merc. IIIa 44996
8456/18
8470/18 BMW IIIa 1453
8476/18 BMW IIIa 1573
8489/18 BMW IIIa 1207
8501/18 BMW IIIa 1502
8502/18
8503/18
8507/18
8508/18 Merc. IIIa 32779
8517/18 Merc. IIIa 43537
8518/18 BMW IIIa 1578
8519/18
8520/18
8523/18 Merc. IIIa 42527
8526/18
8528/18 Merc. IIIa 45920
8530/18 Merc. IIIa 45158
8538/18
8539/18 Merc. IIIa 45056
8540/18 Merc. IIIa 35554
8541/18 Merc. IIIa 45148
8542/18
8543/18
8549/18
8550/18 Merc. IIIa 36164
8551/18 Merc. IIIa 44975
8553/18
8567/18
8589/18
8593/18
8609/18
8632/18


The reason we don't have all of the motor numbers is because with Fokker built D.VIIs we have the Armee acceptance sheets which list what motor was installed in which Fokker D.VII. We don't have that benefit with OAW nor Albatros built D.VIIs.

As I mentioned, I'm missing my Alb. built D.VII list. We can deduce from these other lists 61 (Fok. built) + 48 (OAW built) = 109. 142 - 109 = 33 Albatros built D.VIIs.

If anyone has the list please share it.

Thanks and best wishes,
Dave W.



JackFlash
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Posted: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 - 12:06 PM UTC
Noting the Merc. D.IIIa comments these are from the castings on the crank cases and were originally 170hp built to the 180hp D.IIIaü standards
JackFlash
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Posted: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 - 12:10 PM UTC

Quoted Text

". . .Here are the USAAS seial numbers I pulled from the list for known/recorded Fokkers and other WW1 aircraft.

USAAS Serial numbers

64231 Fokker V.40, had McCook Field Project Number P231. Crashed at Dayton, OH Mar 13, 192?, pilot killed.

64232 Fokker V.40, had McCook Field Project Number P232. Surveyed Jun 12, 1923

64303 Fokker D.VII

64343 Fokker D.VII

64345 Fokker D-VII had McCook Field Project Number P165. Surveyed Mar 18, 1927

64346 Fokker D-VII had McCook Field Project Number P195. Salvaged Nov 5, 1923

64347 Siemens-Schukert D.III

68543 Fokker D.VII had McCook Field Project Number P228

68546 Dornier D.I had McCook Field Project Number P241

94014 Albatros D.III

94015 Albatros D.V

94016 Sopwith 7F1 Snipe had McCook Field Project Number P149. surveyed Jan 14, 1926. to civil registry as NC6636

94020 Albatros D.V

94022 Avro 504K was ex-RAF C4312 and had McCook Field Project Number P118. Wrecked Aug 11, 1920

94023 Avro 504K had McCook Field Project Number P141. Surveyed Oct 25, 1920

94025 Bristol Scout

94029 Curtiss R-4

94030 DeHavilland DH 9A

94031 DFW C.V

94033 Fokker D.VI

94034 Fokker D.VII had McCook Field Project Number P290. Surveyed Oct 27, 1923

94039 Fokker D.VII had McCook Field Project Number P138. Surveyed Sep 25, 1922

94040 Fokker D-VII had McCook Field Project Number P127

94042 Halberstadt C.V

94057 Roland D.VIb

94061 Roland D.VI (a or b)

94062 Avro 504J Used at McCook Field with Project Number P142.

94063 Roland D.VI had McCook Field Project Number P132. Burned on ground Sep 8, 1920.

94063 Sopwith Camel had McCook Field Project Number P99. Conflict here

94072 Sopwith T.F.2 Salamander Former RAF T.F.2 F6533. McCook Field project number P-75. Withdrawn fron use after 10/1926.

94074 Spad 13 to McCook Field as P-12.

94077 Wright Martin V to McCook Field as P-14. Stored Apr 30, 1921

94078 RAE SE 5A had McCook Field Project Number P52. Wrecked Aug 12, 1920

94094 RAE SE 5A had McCook Field Project Number P146

94097 Breguet 14B2 To McCook Field P-148

94098 Nieuport 27 To McCook Field P-153

94099 Spad 7C1 To McCook Field P-156

94100 Nieuport 28 To McCook Field P-155 Surveyed Jan 14, 1924

94101 Spad 13 To McCook Field P-154. Surveyed Jan 14, 1924

94102 Fokker D.VII To McCook Field P-144. Surveyed Sep 2, 1922

94103 Fokker D.VII

94104 Fokker D.VII To McCook Field P-143 and P-291

94106 Sopwith Dragon former RAF Dragon J3628. McCook Field project number P-149. Withdrawn from use after 1/1926.

94107 Dayton-Wright XB-1A McCook Field P-150

94108 Dayton-Wright XB-1A McCook Field P-151

94110 Salmson McCook Field P-159

94111 British Aerial Transport (B.A.T) FK-23 C/n 21. Former RAF serial F1660. Designed by Frits Koolhoven. McCook Field P-167

94112 Fokker D.VIII McCook Field P-169

You can see some problems with the list, such as "Roland D-V" instead of D.VIa or D.VIb, . . .As well as double numbering, etc.

Best,
Dave W.

JackFlash
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Posted: Wednesday, September 01, 2010 - 12:22 PM UTC
Here is some on the Roland D.VIb 7502/18 with the experimental camouflage.


"About McCook Project No. P-132:

LFG Roland D.VIb 7502/18 McCook Field P-132 powered by a Benz Bz.IIIav engine was flight tested by 2nd Lieutnant Louis P. Moriarty in summer of 1920, Report Date 4 August 1920 (Windsock Datafile 37). Roland D.VIb 7502/18 was one of 30 that were surrendered to the AEF at Coblenz on the 1st of January 1919.

P.S. The source can be Joe Baugher's list of USAAS Serials". Numbers
Alanroy
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Posted: Thursday, September 02, 2010 - 11:10 AM UTC
Great listing! I wonder what the chances are of ever matching the USAAS numbers with the German serials. And of matching any of them with the 40 missing McCook P-numbers. What site or forum was this originally posted on?
Regards,
Alan
JackFlash
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Posted: Friday, September 03, 2010 - 05:15 PM UTC
Most of this is from Dave Watts noted engine and machine gun enthusiast.
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