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This forum is for general aircraft modelling discussions.
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decals silvered...not happy
kemo
Ohio, United States
Joined: October 07, 2006
KitMaker: 112 posts
AeroScale: 16 posts
Joined: October 07, 2006
KitMaker: 112 posts
AeroScale: 16 posts
Posted: Monday, November 01, 2010 - 01:08 AM UTC
Im an armor guy moving on to aircraft. Have this great build, came to the decals and some silvering occured. I applied future before decaling, added Microsol silvering occured. Any suggestions why this happened. Not the whole decal, but just portions of it silvered.
eclarson
Ohio, United States
Joined: February 22, 2010
KitMaker: 171 posts
AeroScale: 166 posts
Joined: February 22, 2010
KitMaker: 171 posts
AeroScale: 166 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 - 03:52 AM UTC
From one Eric to another,
I feel your pain. I have a love/hate relationship with decals. When all goes well, it's one of my favorite parts of a project. When things go wrong, there is usually much weeping and gnashing of teeth.
I'm primarily an aircraft builder so have dealt with decals ranging from almost microscopic stencils to great slabs that need to fit around lumps, bumps, and compound curves.
Sometimes, you do everything right and there is still silvering. It's one of those laws of modeling. When it happens to me, it is often because of a slightly rough paint finish or surface detail that the decal just doesn't want to sink into regardless of how much solvent is applied. By the way, not all decals react the same with various solvents. I always test a couple from whatever set I'm using, if possible, with two or three different solvents. My usuals are MicroSet/Sol, AeroSet/Sol or Walther Solvaset.
OK, back to the silvering. My usual solution is to take a small sewing needle chucked in a pin vise and gently poke the decal several times over the silvered area. Not hard enough to make a pit in the plastic but enough to puncture the decal film. Essentially, you are puncturing the air bubble under the decal which is what silvering is. I'll then apply another dose of solvent and gently press on the area with a moist cotton swab. If that fails, I'll poke the area with the needle a few more times then brush a bit of Future on the silvered area. The idea here is that the Future will soak through the holes and fill the silvered area.
If the silvered area is large, I'll sometimes use a fresh #11 Xacto blade to gently slice through the decal, instead of poking it with a pin. Again, caution is needed so as not to make a visible mark in the plastic. I'll also use the knife to slice the decal when it is applied over panel lines or other surface details..
Please let me know if you have any questions.
I hope this helps,
Eric
I feel your pain. I have a love/hate relationship with decals. When all goes well, it's one of my favorite parts of a project. When things go wrong, there is usually much weeping and gnashing of teeth.
I'm primarily an aircraft builder so have dealt with decals ranging from almost microscopic stencils to great slabs that need to fit around lumps, bumps, and compound curves.
Sometimes, you do everything right and there is still silvering. It's one of those laws of modeling. When it happens to me, it is often because of a slightly rough paint finish or surface detail that the decal just doesn't want to sink into regardless of how much solvent is applied. By the way, not all decals react the same with various solvents. I always test a couple from whatever set I'm using, if possible, with two or three different solvents. My usuals are MicroSet/Sol, AeroSet/Sol or Walther Solvaset.
OK, back to the silvering. My usual solution is to take a small sewing needle chucked in a pin vise and gently poke the decal several times over the silvered area. Not hard enough to make a pit in the plastic but enough to puncture the decal film. Essentially, you are puncturing the air bubble under the decal which is what silvering is. I'll then apply another dose of solvent and gently press on the area with a moist cotton swab. If that fails, I'll poke the area with the needle a few more times then brush a bit of Future on the silvered area. The idea here is that the Future will soak through the holes and fill the silvered area.
If the silvered area is large, I'll sometimes use a fresh #11 Xacto blade to gently slice through the decal, instead of poking it with a pin. Again, caution is needed so as not to make a visible mark in the plastic. I'll also use the knife to slice the decal when it is applied over panel lines or other surface details..
Please let me know if you have any questions.
I hope this helps,
Eric
kemo
Ohio, United States
Joined: October 07, 2006
KitMaker: 112 posts
AeroScale: 16 posts
Joined: October 07, 2006
KitMaker: 112 posts
AeroScale: 16 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 - 10:44 AM UTC
Eric: After researching, your suggestions are right on. My surface was too rough even with a future base. I am trying micro-sol for the first time. I had to pick up the tail fin decal a few times and set it back down. That may have contributed. My next project is an A-10, so I will try out some new techniques on that. I give aircraft modelers two thumbs up for the work you do. Aircraft are not the same as armor. Im addicted now.
eclarson
Ohio, United States
Joined: February 22, 2010
KitMaker: 171 posts
AeroScale: 166 posts
Joined: February 22, 2010
KitMaker: 171 posts
AeroScale: 166 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 - 12:04 PM UTC
Eric,
I'm glad I could help. Reading your reply brought something else to mind. After your paint has fully cured (allow at least a couple of days) but before you apply your first gloss clear, get some really fine sand paper, like 1000 or finer, and VERY gently wet-sand your finish. I use 4000 to 8000 micromesh sanding cloth. This will smooth out your paint a bit. Another thing is to rub out your paint with a paper coffee filter (unused, of course :-) ) . The paper filter is slightly abrasive and will also "polish" your paint finish some. Finally, just wipe your model down with a lint-free damp (water only) cloth to clean off any sanding dust. You should end up seeing a satin sheen to your paint.
Now apply your gloss coat.
If you're apprehensive about doing this to your model, spray some paint on an old clunker and experiment. I have several old wings and a fuselage that have accumulated many layers of paint and decals over the years. :-)
By the way, I'm just the opposite of you in that I'm an aircraft builder who has dabbled a bit in armor. Paint is still paint and on the couple tanks I've built (I'm hooked on the 1/48 Tamiya kits) I use the same techniques to ensure a smooth finish before applying decals. It's the weathering, wear, and tear techniques that I'm still working on!
Cheers,
Eric
I'm glad I could help. Reading your reply brought something else to mind. After your paint has fully cured (allow at least a couple of days) but before you apply your first gloss clear, get some really fine sand paper, like 1000 or finer, and VERY gently wet-sand your finish. I use 4000 to 8000 micromesh sanding cloth. This will smooth out your paint a bit. Another thing is to rub out your paint with a paper coffee filter (unused, of course :-) ) . The paper filter is slightly abrasive and will also "polish" your paint finish some. Finally, just wipe your model down with a lint-free damp (water only) cloth to clean off any sanding dust. You should end up seeing a satin sheen to your paint.
Now apply your gloss coat.
If you're apprehensive about doing this to your model, spray some paint on an old clunker and experiment. I have several old wings and a fuselage that have accumulated many layers of paint and decals over the years. :-)
By the way, I'm just the opposite of you in that I'm an aircraft builder who has dabbled a bit in armor. Paint is still paint and on the couple tanks I've built (I'm hooked on the 1/48 Tamiya kits) I use the same techniques to ensure a smooth finish before applying decals. It's the weathering, wear, and tear techniques that I'm still working on!
Cheers,
Eric
plastickjunkie
Florida, United States
Joined: December 31, 2009
KitMaker: 399 posts
AeroScale: 132 posts
Joined: December 31, 2009
KitMaker: 399 posts
AeroScale: 132 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 02, 2010 - 12:14 PM UTC
I polish the area that will receive the decal with a piece of coffee filter (paper). This will knock down any roughness from the flat paint. I then apply the Future and let it dry for a couple of days. Then I brush Solvaset on the decal. This stuff will melt the decal down. Another method is to brush on Future and while wet, place the decal on it. This method will kill any silvering.
kemo
Ohio, United States
Joined: October 07, 2006
KitMaker: 112 posts
AeroScale: 16 posts
Joined: October 07, 2006
KitMaker: 112 posts
AeroScale: 16 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 - 12:26 PM UTC
Im a profectionist. Scraped every decal off, re-painted today and gloss coating tomorrow. Sanding surface then Futuring before decals. Did not want to start from scratch, but I had to. Have four days to finish before fist show of the modelling season for me.
plastickjunkie
Florida, United States
Joined: December 31, 2009
KitMaker: 399 posts
AeroScale: 132 posts
Joined: December 31, 2009
KitMaker: 399 posts
AeroScale: 132 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 - 12:46 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Futuring before decals.
Let the Future set up for at least one day. Otherwise you may get a white haze/clouding around the decal from the setting solution. It hapenned to me a while back after waiting 3-4 hours. Now I wait a day, two to be safer.
Siderius
Tennessee, United States
Joined: September 20, 2005
KitMaker: 1,747 posts
AeroScale: 1,673 posts
Joined: September 20, 2005
KitMaker: 1,747 posts
AeroScale: 1,673 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 - 12:50 PM UTC
Hi Eric, just wanted to add my two cents worth. The other Eric (Larson) is correct. Sometimes no matter how much gloss coat you put on you still get some silvering! It is incredibly frustrating, just know it isn't necessarily your fault. I have long complained that model manufacturers don't put enough emphasis on the folks who make their decals. Many times the decals are not made by the same people who make the model kit itself.
Academy kits are a perfect example. Very nice, reasonably priced kits, until recently, the decals were a shot in the dark. Sometimes they worked well, sometimes only a few of the decals worked with the rest not working, sometimes they wouldn't work at all and aftermarket was the only way to go!
Fortunately, Academy has been listening and their later kits seem to have better decals from Cartograph I think? Well that's about it, just wanted to reassure you that you can do everything correct and still not get exactly the finish you want. Take care, keep modeling. Russell
Academy kits are a perfect example. Very nice, reasonably priced kits, until recently, the decals were a shot in the dark. Sometimes they worked well, sometimes only a few of the decals worked with the rest not working, sometimes they wouldn't work at all and aftermarket was the only way to go!
Fortunately, Academy has been listening and their later kits seem to have better decals from Cartograph I think? Well that's about it, just wanted to reassure you that you can do everything correct and still not get exactly the finish you want. Take care, keep modeling. Russell
doppelganger
Idaho, United States
Joined: March 09, 2010
KitMaker: 557 posts
AeroScale: 193 posts
Joined: March 09, 2010
KitMaker: 557 posts
AeroScale: 193 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 03, 2010 - 01:39 PM UTC
I am finding better success with decals as I become more accomplished at airbrushing finer less granular primer and color,using lots of clearcoat and anything other than old academy decals .I use ample amounts of microsol.I am not a pro like some of the guys here however I hope this helps
plastickjunkie
Florida, United States
Joined: December 31, 2009
KitMaker: 399 posts
AeroScale: 132 posts
Joined: December 31, 2009
KitMaker: 399 posts
AeroScale: 132 posts
Posted: Saturday, November 06, 2010 - 09:18 AM UTC
So how are the decals for the Academy 1/48 F-86F-30 kit # 2162?
Emeritus
Uusimaa, Finland
Joined: March 30, 2004
KitMaker: 2,845 posts
AeroScale: 1,564 posts
Joined: March 30, 2004
KitMaker: 2,845 posts
AeroScale: 1,564 posts
Posted: Sunday, November 07, 2010 - 08:33 AM UTC
Quoted Text
So how are the decals for the Academy 1/48 F-86F-30 kit # 2162?
This one, right? The decal sheet says "made in Korea", meaning they're Academy's own stuff. I'd proceed with caution, preferably also getting an aftermarket sheet.
The newer kits that have Cartograph decals has their logo on the box top.
robot_
United Kingdom
Joined: March 08, 2009
KitMaker: 719 posts
AeroScale: 691 posts
Joined: March 08, 2009
KitMaker: 719 posts
AeroScale: 691 posts
Posted: Sunday, November 07, 2010 - 11:01 AM UTC
I had a pleasant surprise when I bought a Minicraft 1/144 Hawker Tempest (I think this is part of the Academy group?)- this was when Hannants insisted on you buying a kit if you wanted to buy their paints, and it was the cheapest kit that I would build.
The box has a photo of an assembled kit, and the transfers looks bad- the roundel red, blue and yellow looked much too bright, and the 'sky' codes were bright tourquoise! But inside were beautifully printed Cartograph transfers with perfect colours. Pity the researcher got the serial wrong, and the underside roundels wrong, but much better than the originals!
The box has a photo of an assembled kit, and the transfers looks bad- the roundel red, blue and yellow looked much too bright, and the 'sky' codes were bright tourquoise! But inside were beautifully printed Cartograph transfers with perfect colours. Pity the researcher got the serial wrong, and the underside roundels wrong, but much better than the originals!
plastickjunkie
Florida, United States
Joined: December 31, 2009
KitMaker: 399 posts
AeroScale: 132 posts
Joined: December 31, 2009
KitMaker: 399 posts
AeroScale: 132 posts
Posted: Monday, November 08, 2010 - 09:16 AM UTC
Emeritus
Yes, unfortunately I have the made in Korea decals. Maybe if I shoot them an email they will send me the Cartograph ones? I'll give it a try anyway.
Yes, unfortunately I have the made in Korea decals. Maybe if I shoot them an email they will send me the Cartograph ones? I'll give it a try anyway.