_GOTOBOTTOM
General Aircraft
This forum is for general aircraft modelling discussions.
What´s the point in bright metal finish?
Envar
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Uusimaa, Finland
Joined: March 07, 2002
KitMaker: 1,088 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Friday, August 29, 2003 - 12:10 AM UTC
This is something that has always bugged me. What is the purpose of bare metal "camo"? I thought camo paint is for camouflage, to make the thing harder to see and spot. Aluminium surface reflects light like hell and it´s hard to imagine a case it could be better than sky coloured bottom and ground coloured top surfaces.
Somebody please tell me so that I´m able to sleep at night!

Toni
AJLaFleche
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Massachusetts, United States
Joined: May 05, 2002
KitMaker: 8,074 posts
AeroScale: 328 posts
Posted: Friday, August 29, 2003 - 12:20 AM UTC
In a situation where you have air superiority, if not supremacy, there is little point in going to the expense of painting a land based aircraft. Naval aircraft tend to be painted to reduce the ravages of salt air. You'll note that during the 50's and 60's, even painted aircraft had very colorful markings which would help identify friend from foe. The USAF's SAC force used a gray with white undersides during the late 60,s and early 60's to reduce the potential effects of the nukes they were tasked to delliver. As we've moved on to radar guided and heat seeking missles, paint schemes have incorporated radar absorbant materials and low heat signiture paint.
MadMeex
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Vaasa, Finland
Joined: August 07, 2002
KitMaker: 424 posts
AeroScale: 73 posts
Posted: Friday, August 29, 2003 - 12:57 AM UTC
Also, during WW2, it was noted that the paint slowed down an aircraft by (as I recall) 4-5 MPH.

Mika H
Envar
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Uusimaa, Finland
Joined: March 07, 2002
KitMaker: 1,088 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Friday, August 29, 2003 - 01:07 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Also, during WW2, it was noted that the paint slowed down an aircraft by (as I recall) 4-5 MPH


Wow. Somebody actually had it measured...
Reminds me of Juha Mieto´s ski race when he lost the gold by 1/100 second. Afterwards it was speculated that he would have won without his massive beard... #:-)

Thanks for the info fellas!



Toni
JPTRR
Staff MemberManaging Editor
RAILROAD MODELING
#051
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Tennessee, United States
Joined: December 21, 2002
KitMaker: 7,772 posts
AeroScale: 3,175 posts
Posted: Friday, August 29, 2003 - 04:47 AM UTC
I read once that a B-52 required 800 GALLONS of paint to camo it. What does a gallon of paint weigh, even after the carrier evaporates away? Gotta be a factor.

I read that NMF was favored over camo for the previously mentioned speed factor, ease of maintance, weight, cost, a host of reasons.

I also read that USAF/USN ACM camo experiments found that whether haze gray, sky blue, day-glo, it doesn't matter, all a pilot sees is 'an airplane-shaped dark hole in the sky'. #:-)

TTFN,

Fred
JPTRR
Staff MemberManaging Editor
RAILROAD MODELING
#051
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Tennessee, United States
Joined: December 21, 2002
KitMaker: 7,772 posts
AeroScale: 3,175 posts
Posted: Friday, August 29, 2003 - 04:49 AM UTC
Oh, and the other day I watched an interview with some Persian Gulf war F-18 pilots who said that in the Iraqi haze, the ghost gray F-18s were easy to spot unless they came down at about a 45 degree dive. Frontal-aspect, they are invisible.
airwarrior
_VISITCOMMUNITY
New Jersey, United States
Joined: November 21, 2002
KitMaker: 2,085 posts
AeroScale: 217 posts
Posted: Friday, August 29, 2003 - 05:21 AM UTC
THis has been wonderingf me,at the museum I live nearthey PAINTED the NMF on,whats the point?doesn't make it look any better,and it adds weight........
Merlin
Staff MemberSenior Editor
AEROSCALE
#017
_VISITCOMMUNITY
United Kingdom
Joined: June 11, 2003
KitMaker: 17,582 posts
AeroScale: 12,795 posts
Posted: Friday, August 29, 2003 - 06:02 AM UTC

Quoted Text

THis has been wonderingf me,at the museum I live nearthey PAINTED the NMF on,whats the point?



Hi Dave

Many museum aircraft and warbirds are painted silver as a protective coat to guard against corrosion, and to ensure the a/c stays looking fresh. :-) The extra weight isn't really an issue if you're not in combat...

All the best

Rowan
Jeeves
_VISITCOMMUNITY
United States
Joined: July 06, 2003
KitMaker: 17 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 31, 2003 - 02:29 AM UTC
There was one other thing...

The Mustangs in WWII were NMF as a weight/speed thing-- but the wings were painted silver for one other reason-- it helped enhance the lamilar flow that the wing design was so famous for. I have read this in more than one source in doing my research for a P-51C I am building...
Phantom
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Missouri, United States
Joined: April 13, 2002
KitMaker: 195 posts
AeroScale: 52 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 - 02:54 PM UTC
Envar, I believe the whole NMF phase of the air force came about simply as a wartime necessity. As it has been pointed out earlier, we did enjoy air superiority, so camoflage wasn't as important in the high flying bomber vs. fighter battles. Add to that the added bonuses of a little extra airspeed, and a couple more miles of range, as well as being easier for the ground crews to maintain, and it just made sense.

After the war, since there wasn't an immediate threat, it was just easier to leave them natural. With the advent of jets, and the speed that they brought, I think it was just plain sexier to keep the natural metal surface - made the jets look sleeker. At one point the jets were even ordered to be painted silver to give them all a more uniform appearance. Clearly the publics perception of the new jets was close to mind.

With the coming of Vietnam, and the change in tactics that conflict brought to the air force, the natural metal finishes were eliminated in favor of more traditional camoflage - it could be argued that the planes operating in the south would have been better off sticking with an air defense gray scheme rather than the tactical camo since there was no aerial opposition, but from a logistical standpoint it just makes sense to have all in-country aircraft of a particular type wearing the same paint scheme. Besides, I haven't seen any data indicating that Navy and Marine aircraft in their gull gray and white scheme faired any better against air defenses than their camoflaged Air Force counterparts.

So to answer your question - there was no purpose to natural metal finishes other than ease of maintenance for the ground crews, and to look sleek to the public. As soon as the planes shifted from operating in a cold war environment to a shooting war environment, their paint schemes changed accordingly.
chip250
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Wisconsin, United States
Joined: September 01, 2002
KitMaker: 1,864 posts
AeroScale: 410 posts
Posted: Tuesday, September 02, 2003 - 06:19 PM UTC
Because I can just spray the mustang with a can of spray paint, instead of going through the whole airbrush assemby.........routine!

~Chip
 _GOTOTOP