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World War II
Discuss WWII and the era directly before and after the war from 1935-1949.
Hosted by Rowan Baylis
Research
lordderfel
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England - West Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: January 13, 2010
KitMaker: 37 posts
AeroScale: 31 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 - 05:07 AM UTC
I was wondering how you carry out your research before starting a model. Do you have a favourite source, read books, use the internet, go to museums?

I use a combination of all of these myself and as a teacher who runs a model making club I feel that I am often hitting my head against a brick wall to get them to do research rather than just open the box and start using only the included information.

At present I am researching a particular Mk1 Hurricane: JX-P as flown by Billy Drake over France in 1940, shot down I believe on May 13th, he was wounded but parachuted to safety. Problem is, no matter whaere I look I cannot find the serial number or if there were any other special markings, every source shows his later aircraft but not this one. Can anyone shed any light on this?
Andy
EdgarBrooks
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England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: June 03, 2006
KitMaker: 397 posts
AeroScale: 384 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 - 10:36 AM UTC
The first place to look is the Squadron's Operations Record Book (ORB,) which should be held in the National Archives (used to be Public Records Office) at Kew. This has a daily record of who flew what, and when, but the quality varies, since it was often kept by a junior officer, who didn't really fancy the task. If you can get there, or know someone who can (I plan to go on Saturday,) inspecting the book can be done in about 15 minutes, but be prepared for disappointment, since, not only does the book's content vary, but a lot of material was completely lost in the hectic scramble to evacuate France around the time of Dunkirk.
Edgar
Antoni
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England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: June 03, 2006
KitMaker: 574 posts
AeroScale: 573 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 30, 2011 - 11:39 PM UTC
The serial number is not known. The wreckage was excavated (Steve Vizard) for a BBC documentary in June 2004 about 1 Squadron. If they could not determine the serial number then it's very unlikely it will ever be found.

Returning to base with oxygen failure, shot down by Bf110s during solo attack on Do17s and abandoned north-east of Perthes 7.15 F/O Drake baled out wounded in back and legs. Admitted to hospital in Rethel.

A contemporary report of French 9eme Armee activities and a letter in 1989 from Jean Logeart-Hans of Perthes. who attended Drake and drove him to hospital, both record this event as 11th May. The date usually given, 13th May, is based on Paul Richey's memoirs, Surviving RAF records do not resolve the question.

It is likely that the squadron codes were painted out (Peter Cornwell lists the hurricane as coded *P in "The Battle of France Then and Now") and possibly the serial number as well. Undersides may have been painted a light blue colour and the rudder in red, white and blue stripes.
EdgarBrooks
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England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: June 03, 2006
KitMaker: 397 posts
AeroScale: 384 posts
Posted: Saturday, September 03, 2011 - 05:10 AM UTC
The ORB, for modellers, is singularly unhelpful, around that time. The account, for May & June, 1940, is comprehensive, regarding what happened, day by day, but doesn't mention aircraft serials, codes, or pilots. There's a note that their Intelligence Officer had been sent home on sick leave, which probably explains it. April and July are as normal, but not those two months, sorry. If you're still interested, I can photograph the relevant pages, on another visit, and send them to you.
Edgar
lordderfel
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England - West Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: January 13, 2010
KitMaker: 37 posts
AeroScale: 31 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 - 06:23 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The ORB, for modellers, is singularly unhelpful, around that time. The account, for May & June, 1940, is comprehensive, regarding what happened, day by day, but doesn't mention aircraft serials, codes, or pilots. There's a note that their Intelligence Officer had been sent home on sick leave, which probably explains it. April and July are as normal, but not those two months, sorry. If you're still interested, I can photograph the relevant pages, on another visit, and send them to you.
Edgar



Many thanks for looking, if there is nothing there then I guess a photocopy won't be worth it bit thanks for the offer. Guess my ide of using this colour scheme as a tribute could be a bit difficult, so whether I continue we will have to see. As its a 1/24 scale it would be a shame to produce a colour scheme and markings without a serial number as it would be very noticeable, but there again as no one knows what it was I guess I could add any old number and who would know with a passing look? No, cant do it, It has to be as accurate as I can make it.
Thanks to everyone who replied.
lordderfel
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England - West Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: January 13, 2010
KitMaker: 37 posts
AeroScale: 31 posts
Posted: Wednesday, September 07, 2011 - 06:25 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The serial number is not known. The wreckage was excavated (Steve Vizard) for a BBC documentary in June 2004 about 1 Squadron. If they could not determine the serial number then it's very unlikely it will ever be found.

Returning to base with oxygen failure, shot down by Bf110s during solo attack on Do17s and abandoned north-east of Perthes 7.15 F/O Drake baled out wounded in back and legs. Admitted to hospital in Rethel.

A contemporary report of French 9eme Armee activities and a letter in 1989 from Jean Logeart-Hans of Perthes. who attended Drake and drove him to hospital, both record this event as 11th May. The date usually given, 13th May, is based on Paul Richey's memoirs, Surviving RAF records do not resolve the question.

It is likely that the squadron codes were painted out (Peter Cornwell lists the hurricane as coded *P in "The Battle of France Then and Now") and possibly the serial number as well. Undersides may have been painted a light blue colour and the rudder in red, white and blue stripes.



I saw the documentary where they recovered it, very interesting it was too and very moving with the local mayor and everyone welcoming him back to see the crash site.

Some interesting facts, thanks.
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