I’m building the 1/48th Dambuster Lancaster. As I want to detail the engine, I need to know what type of Merlin engines were used in the Dambuster Lancasters.
As I understand it so far, the Lancaster specials were converted Mk1s and Mk3s, which have different types of engine. I have SAM Modellers datafile, but its not clear whats what.
Does anyone know ?? Or a website or book where I could look ??

wow a dam buster,,,, where did u get this model.
iam been trying to find one,
tamyia dont make it any more

Hi Mossieramm
According to a book i have here the Dambuster Lancs were MkIII(type 464 provisioning) and as such were fitted with Packard built Merlin 28 engines.

Tazz
Have a look on ebay,Tamiya lancs are often on there.

HTH
Pete

:-) Hi mossieramm, first of all welcome to Armorama
I have the same referance as you, you are correct it isn't very clear which engines were on the Dambuster Lancs. However having studied the info available I would say that the Merlin 22 would be correct. The other possible options would be Merlin XX or 24. I would guess that there would be little discernible difference between the 22 and 24 and I doubt that the Merlin XX was used at this time. Are you planning on detailing the kit engines? They are undersize, due to the thickness of the plastic in the nacelles. I don't know of a manufacturer that produces a Merlin 22/24. One thing to consider though, If you are planning to display the model loaded with the "upkeep" mine, it is unlikely, in my opinion, that any maintenance would be being carried out. The aircraft would have been well readied prior to the loading of the stores. This is not to say that you can't show off the engine, if you want. :-)
One detail that realy does need correcting is the bomb aimers blister. The kit has the early type and the dambuster aircraft had the later, longer, type. I think Paragon used to do this, but alas they are no more. :-) Sorry that I can't be more specific, but I hope this helps :-)
Mal

:-) MMMM, Pete, interesting. If they were Packard built wouldn't they be designated as 228?
So that might be a bit suspicious, I would certainly bow to better reference :-) as I only have the SAM data file.
Mal

The details of Upkeep and its spin-off (excuse the pun) Highball were kept secret by the Brits until 1963.
Twenty-three production Lanc MkIII's were modified by AV Roe to a Vickers design. They had standard Merlin 28 engines.
The first modified airframe was ED765/G which went to the RAE on April 8th 1943, the second was ED825/G which was delivered to Boscombe Down later the same month.
Twenty one aircraft were delivered to 617 Squadron. The serials were ED817, ED864, ED865, ED886, ED887, ED906, ED909, ED910, ED912, ED915, ED918, ED921, ED924, ED925, ED927, ED929, ED932, ED933, ED934, ED936, and ED9375. The nineteen aircraft used in the raids were selected from these.
ED825 was also delivered to 617 (on May 16th) but not used on the raids.

Regards Dave

I like the Lancaster. I scored the Dambuster version and a regular version. Both very old. They were at a hobby shop about a hundred miles away that is filled with all differant kinds of kits. The regular versions- there were about at least ten in stock. That was about a couple months ago though.

I just thought that you should know. :-)

Didn't someone from England make a detail set for the Lanc? Reheat?

~Chip :-)

The model is the old 1976 Tamiya Lancaster. :-)
I haven’t decided on detailing the kit engine, of getting a detail set. I also haven’t decided yet on how I’m going to display the model, but I want to keep my options open. Maybe I’ll get inspired by a photo. The engine type is a question that has been on my mind some time, just never got around to ask it to the proper people. Which reminds me.
How can you tell by looking at a lanc which Mk it is ?? As far as I know the Mk1s were fitted with RR Merlin 22s, and the Mk3s were fitted with Packard Merlin 228 engines which were based on the RR Merlin 22, but complying with American "standards and measures" (whatever that means, maybe AF instead of Whitworth nut and bolt threads) and with magneto and carburettor modifications, and a extensive toolkit. But how can you tell which is which. I always thought that one way to tell the difference is to look at propeller. The propeller was different for the Mk1 and Mk3. The Mk3 having the paddle wheel props, and the Mk1 having (I forget the proper name) the pointy props.
Funny thing about security acts, the upkeep plans were kept secret by the British until the 1960s, even though the Germans had reconstructed the bombs from the various remains, or at least how they worked within two weeks of the actual raid.

Welcome to Armorama 1st of all. I am in the middle of a Lancaster project myself. Better part of a year now. Just slowly putting it together carefully. Found this kit at a hobby shop (Wings n' Wheels, Clinton, CT.1992). I was happy to pay 50.00 for it back then. I finally broke it out of the box about a year ago. I have been trying to gather as much research material for this Dambuster Lanc thru the years since I got it,. There isn't much for this famous version. I have the movie about 617 Sqdn. Pretty good movie by the way. When I first joined Armorama I submitted some images of my project but I don't think they will show up anymore, they were on the hyperphoto site. It has shut down since. So I am going to resubmit them. But one othe problems I ran into, is that the fuselage is held together with rubber bands.. Well they ate into the fuselage and left a light groove right in ft of the canopy
and round the tail. Fortunately it's not ruined. But I will now have to rescribe the whole fuselage. One reason why this is taking a bit of time. '
At this moment the only detail parts I've been able to get are True Details resin wheels, and RAF bomber seatbelts from Eduards. Highflight had a pretty extensive PE set for this kit but expensive. Paragon had a number of resin parts to make different versions of the Lancaster, as well as resin wheels, prop blades, flying surfaces etc. but is no longer in production. Also I got EZ mask for the canopy frames. Very easy to use, they bend around the compound curves and stick and will not leave any residue on the glazing. I've run into this with Black Magic and Eduards masks. I'm at work right now, but when I get home I'll get the CD out and try to send some in progress images of where I stand at this point.

Chuck
Fly Navy

:-) Managed to find a couple more references, but it still isn't 100% clear to me wether it was only the Canadian built models that had the Packard built engines and british built had merlins. If anyone has difinative proof, one way or the other I would be very interested. I doubt though if there is any real decernable difference between the 2, so in model form you shouldn't have to many problems, as long as you have the basics looking good. :-)
Mal

Most of my aviation reference material is not readily accessible but according to William Green "Bombers of the Second World War" the main difference between a MkI and a MkIII was that the MkIII had Packard Merlins. These could be 28's, 38's or 224's. Both the MkI and the MkIII were produced concurrently, although the MkIII was produced in much greater numbers because of the availability of the Packard power plants.

The MkII had Hercules in a MkI airframe so the use of the nomenclature MkIII for the Packards would certainly not appear to indicate any other significant changes.

I have only worked on RR versions but would surmise that the Americanisation of the unit was restricted to changing threads to SAE, placards to US units, and other trivia which would hardly be apparent in 1/48th.

One external difference that can be seen in contemporary photos of Lancs is the number of (or absence of) fuselage windows but this had nothing to do with the production Mk, being a field modification at the whim of the operating squadron.

Regards Dave

The Dam Buster Lancaster's of 617 were all Mk I modified airframes the external difference being the bomb aimer's dome. Lancaster Mk II's were the Bristol Hercules engine version, the Mk III were fitted with the Packard built Merlin and the Mk X were the airframes built in Canada.
A Merlin XX in 48 scale is done by CMK the code for this product slips my mind, their is a small organization in Melbourne Australia who also did the Merlin in 48 scale as a resin supliment.
I have built both the Dambuster and Standard Bomber's, I'm now working on the current Tamiya kit of the Grand Slam Lancaster, which is converted back to the 'standard' version.

Thanks for the info on the engines guys. Still curious about the propeller change though. Anyone know how or why there are two types of propeller, were they both used indiscriminately on all Mks ??

As I will want to do a conventional Lancaster later. Is it possible on the current issue of the Grand Slam Lancaster to turn in it into a conventional Lancaster out of the box, or do you have to buy an after-market set.

Hi all,
with regards the props. The new Hasegawa Lanc has both sets of props in because S-Sugar had narrow in the war and now in the museum had paddle bladed ones. She didn't change from a MkI to a MkIII just 'cos the blades changed and neither did any other. Canadian built ones where more likely to have paddle blades as standard but British build a/c also had them retro fitted at squadron level. For example, LM130 was built as a MkI at A. Whitworth (England) and had paddle bladed props in the pictures I have.The Tamiya Lanc had paddle blades and Rebecca arials which Sugar didn't have during the war, at least not in the picture I have of her after her 100th op. Looking at a Lanc won't tell you the difference between the two marks, research will. I would suggesdt that you try to find a copy of Avro Lancaster. The definitive Record by Harry Holmes. Contains serials, production batches, builders totals, delivery dates, squadron use and a whole host of other facts,
Regards
Creamy

--wingy-things not in my line but have small walkaround ? of Merlin engines ---one is a 24 ....if any good let me know-----Ugh!!! wjngy-things!!! :-) :-)
aye
BARV
(GOSMG)
PS...did have some vid-clips but think I dumped them ----will hunt------SAC

G'day,

Apart from the details I posted before on this subject, when you come to applying decals, prior to the mission these birds had the /G prefix added to the serial number, meening these aircraft where under guard when on the ground.
The /G prefix was painted over on the night of the mission.

The Dam Buster kit is about to emerge from Hasegawa in 72 scale form later this year.

I can heartily recommend this manufacturer if you are working in 1/72 scale - and in october they are releasing a detail set for the Hasegawa Lanc (scroll down).

Handy for airfield accessories like trolley acc's etc.

Flightpath

No information on Engines, but what a great kit!!!. So huge and so expensive....