I'm going to be starting work on my new Revel P-38 Lightning soon, and I had a few questions. Hope you can help me.
1) I've noticed that almost all the exterior detail is raised. Panel lines, rivets, etc. How can I fill in gaps without sanding these details off? OR How can I replace these details?
2) What color was used for the interior of US WW II aircraft? I know it was a shade of green; What is a good match for it? (model master enamels or acrylics)
3) I hope to paint my P-38 in a night fighter recon scheme. I've already thought up a custom nose marking, the words 'Eye in the Sky' by an eyeball. (I'll upload a sketch later) How can I do this? Make my own decals, or try painting it?
4) I want a rather light amount of weathering, the plane will be relatively new. What color can I use to re-create the exhaust stains? Can someone point me to a good reference site with pics of the P-38 and more US aircraft? I've found American Aircraft of WWII , but most of the pictures are a little small. It seems hard to find good detail shots of the dust and grime that accumulated on fighter palnes.
Thanks in advance to any respondees! :-)
YodaMan
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YodaMan
Joined: February 21, 2002
KitMaker: 1,561 posts
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Posted: Monday, May 20, 2002 - 10:56 AM UTC
Tin_Can
Joined: January 26, 2002
KitMaker: 1,560 posts
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Posted: Monday, May 20, 2002 - 11:18 AM UTC
YodaMan, I'll try to answer a couple questions for you.
1) Raised detail can cause problems if you have to do a lot of sanding that will cause you to loose the detail. Try to be careful as possible when sanding and sand only the area you need to sand. A lot of experienced modelers will completely remove all the raised detail, like panel lines, and then engrave them using a scribe. To replace a raised panel line, Mike Ashey (author of Detailing Scale Model Aircraft) uses stretched sprue that is stretched to the same width as the raised detail and then glued on. Needless to say, that will take lots of practice.
2) For WWII U.S. Interiors, I use modelmaster acrylic green zinc chromate (4852). It looks good when applied and I've been able to airbrush it directly from the bottle. Yellow zinc chromate (4851) is a common color used in gear bays...the P-51 comes to mind. Consult the instructions, though, to get better guidance.
3) No clue on making custom decals.
4) For exhaust stains on a new plane, I would probably try to use a brownish color. I'll try to find some good reference pics for you.
Hope this helps great jedi master.
1) Raised detail can cause problems if you have to do a lot of sanding that will cause you to loose the detail. Try to be careful as possible when sanding and sand only the area you need to sand. A lot of experienced modelers will completely remove all the raised detail, like panel lines, and then engrave them using a scribe. To replace a raised panel line, Mike Ashey (author of Detailing Scale Model Aircraft) uses stretched sprue that is stretched to the same width as the raised detail and then glued on. Needless to say, that will take lots of practice.
2) For WWII U.S. Interiors, I use modelmaster acrylic green zinc chromate (4852). It looks good when applied and I've been able to airbrush it directly from the bottle. Yellow zinc chromate (4851) is a common color used in gear bays...the P-51 comes to mind. Consult the instructions, though, to get better guidance.
3) No clue on making custom decals.
4) For exhaust stains on a new plane, I would probably try to use a brownish color. I'll try to find some good reference pics for you.
Hope this helps great jedi master.
Linz
Joined: March 18, 2002
KitMaker: 181 posts
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Posted: Monday, May 20, 2002 - 11:20 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I'm going to be starting work on my new Revel P-38 Lightning soon, and I had a few questions. Hope you can help me.
1) I've noticed that almost all the exterior detail is raised. Panel lines, rivets, etc. How can I fill in gaps without sanding these details off? OR How can I replace these details?
YodaMan
When applying putty, wait about a minute and then use nail polish remover together with some cotton buds to wipe excess putty away. Make sure the nail polish remover has some acetone in it. If you want to rescribe all the detail, the best way of doing it I know is to spray the parts a very different colour (so if the plastic is light grey, spray it black), then sand back. You can then rescribe over the different coloured marks.
I assume that it is the 1/48 kit you are talking about, in which case here is a review at SMAKR that may be helpful.
Finally, in terms of colour, Urban Fredriksson's Color Reference Charts lists Humbrol 81 as a good match to Zinc Chromate whilst FS24151/Polly S PCA802 as a good match for interior green. The last one is an acrylic.
Cheers,
Linz
Bombshell
Joined: January 22, 2002
KitMaker: 293 posts
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Posted: Monday, May 20, 2002 - 11:21 AM UTC
Hey Yoda,
Regarding the panel lines. Reestoring raised panel lines is quite hard. The best thing is to mask the detail around where you are sanding so that they are protected. However, if you sand a pane line off just scribe the area lost, from the distance it will look just fine, especially if you are doing a Nightfighter in overall gloss black. I have heard of using stretched sprue to replace raised panel lines but never tried it myself.
Regarding the interior color try getting Model Master Acryl U.S. Aircraft Interior Green. It sprays semi-gloss which makes it all much easier to do a wash in the pit.
Cheers,
CDT Reimund Manneck
U.S. Army ROTC
Regarding the panel lines. Reestoring raised panel lines is quite hard. The best thing is to mask the detail around where you are sanding so that they are protected. However, if you sand a pane line off just scribe the area lost, from the distance it will look just fine, especially if you are doing a Nightfighter in overall gloss black. I have heard of using stretched sprue to replace raised panel lines but never tried it myself.
Regarding the interior color try getting Model Master Acryl U.S. Aircraft Interior Green. It sprays semi-gloss which makes it all much easier to do a wash in the pit.
Cheers,
CDT Reimund Manneck
U.S. Army ROTC
Tin_Can
Joined: January 26, 2002
KitMaker: 1,560 posts
AeroScale: 750 posts
Posted: Monday, May 20, 2002 - 11:26 AM UTC
Linz brought up a good point with the nail polish remover trick...I forgot about that one. I've tried it and it does work. If you want a detailed description on how to do it...goto http://www.aircraftresourcecenter.com and click on the tools'n'tips link at the top of the page.
Linz
Joined: March 18, 2002
KitMaker: 181 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Monday, May 20, 2002 - 02:09 PM UTC
Quoted Text
3) I hope to paint my P-38 in a night fighter recon scheme. I've already thought up a custom nose marking, the words 'Eye in the Sky' by an eyeball. (I'll upload a sketch later) How can I do this? Make my own decals, or try painting it?
4) I want a rather light amount of weathering, the plane will be relatively new. What color can I use to re-create the exhaust stains? Can someone point me to a good reference site with pics of the P-38 and more US aircraft? I've found American Aircraft of WWII , but most of the pictures are a little small. It seems hard to find good detail shots of the dust and grime that accumulated on fighter palnes.
Thanks in advance to any respondees! :-)
YodaMan
And a continuation.....
For custom decals, try for black only decals (usually text). This is an easier and cheaper way than using ALPS printers and the like, as this article shows.
Finally, here is some links to pictures that may or may not help:
Very clean example
Data with some photos
From the P-38 Online site there is a gallery that may prove useful
Finally, as you are doing a recon plane, try the website of the 33rd Photo Recon Squadron or the website of the 34th Photo Recon Squadron.
Cheers,
Linz
penpen
Joined: April 11, 2002
KitMaker: 1,757 posts
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Posted: Monday, May 20, 2002 - 05:44 PM UTC
In the posts above, two different colors were cited : interior green, and zync chromate (a bit yellower than interior green).
I've seen reviews where guys use interior green for the cockpit, and zync chromate for the gear bays.
I've seen reviews where guys use interior green for the cockpit, and zync chromate for the gear bays.
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
AeroScale: 287 posts
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
AeroScale: 287 posts
Posted: Monday, May 20, 2002 - 07:18 PM UTC
Quoted Text
This kit is actually older than most of us. Funny thing about it is that the older instruction sheets tell you how to build 5(?) different variants, but later sheets show only one or two. Strange since it is the same kit. You will notice extra parts, some of the other versions were an F5A photo recon, J, and L. FYI, the Nightfighter came out after the war ended (no operational use).I'm going to be starting work on my new Revel P-38 Lightning soon, and I had a few questions. Hope you can help me.
YodaMan
Joined: February 21, 2002
KitMaker: 1,561 posts
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Posted: Monday, May 20, 2002 - 08:40 PM UTC
Thanks everyone, I really appreciate the help!
The review, websites, and tips will all come in handy! Sabot, I checked on the model and sure enough, the year '1964' was stamped on the rear stabilizer!.....right next to two ejector pin marks...
Methinks this kit will be a little bit of a challenge, but that's part of the fun!....
.....right?.....
I'll look for some aftermarket stuff, but so far all I see is a Vacuform canopy from Squadron.
YodaMan
The review, websites, and tips will all come in handy! Sabot, I checked on the model and sure enough, the year '1964' was stamped on the rear stabilizer!.....right next to two ejector pin marks...
Methinks this kit will be a little bit of a challenge, but that's part of the fun!....
.....right?.....
I'll look for some aftermarket stuff, but so far all I see is a Vacuform canopy from Squadron.
YodaMan
Linz
Joined: March 18, 2002
KitMaker: 181 posts
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Posted: Monday, May 20, 2002 - 09:06 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Thanks everyone, I really appreciate the help!
The review, websites, and tips will all come in handy! Sabot, I checked on the model and sure enough, the year '1964' was stamped on the rear stabilizer!.....right next to two ejector pin marks...
Methinks this kit will be a little bit of a challenge, but that's part of the fun!....
.....right?.....
I'll look for some aftermarket stuff, but so far all I see is a Vacuform canopy from Squadron.
YodaMan
Here we go, whilst I'm here
GreatModels lists:
- 1/48 Eduard Accessories ed48053 P-38J Lightning Detail Set $7.70 (Apparently OOP)
- 1/48 Eduard Accessories ed48104 P-38J Lightning Detail Set $9.25
- 1/48 Eduard Accessories edfe111 P-38J Lightning Detail Set $4.60
- 1/48 Engine & Things ent48177 Allison V-1710 C Series (long nose,early) $5.95
- 1/48 Engine & Things ent48180 Allison V-1710 F Series $5.95
- 1/48 Koster Aero Enterprises kaec03 Clear Parts: P-38 Complete Set $4.05
- 1/48 Koster Aero Enterprises kaev01 P-38 Wheel Wells (1) $4.05
- 1/48 Paragon Designs par48032 P-38 Flaps (w/ Photo-etched) $15.85
- 1/48 Paragon Designs par48033 P-38 Open Gun Bay $13.05
- 1/48 Squadron Products sqt9525 P-38J Lightning Canopy Set $2.60
- 1/48 True Details Accessories td48007 P-38 Lightning Wheel Set $2.00
- 1/48 True Details Accessories td48063 P-38 Lightning Wheel Set $2.00
- 1/48 Waldron Accessories wr4832 Lockheed P-38J Set $17.35
That is only stuff that is made just for the Monogram kit, or does not have a kit listed. If you really want something, I am sure that you could fudge a Hasagewa or Academy set in. Furthermore, that is also only from GreatModels, there may be others out there, but I doubt it. GM is usually pretty good.
It also does not include decals or masks.
Cheers,
Linz
YodaMan
Joined: February 21, 2002
KitMaker: 1,561 posts
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Posted: Monday, May 20, 2002 - 10:14 PM UTC
Whew! I thought I'd missed something! Thanks for the list, Linz!
What do you think the chances are, that a PE set for a different model would work in this one? Should I drop the idea and try to find the right one?
I just need to find an online store other than GM that has all that. I'd prefer not to order from GM again, personally....
YodaMan
What do you think the chances are, that a PE set for a different model would work in this one? Should I drop the idea and try to find the right one?
I just need to find an online store other than GM that has all that. I'd prefer not to order from GM again, personally....
YodaMan
m1garand
Joined: February 08, 2002
KitMaker: 1,248 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Monday, May 20, 2002 - 11:38 PM UTC
Phantom
Joined: April 13, 2002
KitMaker: 195 posts
AeroScale: 52 posts
Posted: Monday, May 20, 2002 - 11:41 PM UTC
Hey Yoda, in 'Gallery that may prove useful' above, there's a shot listed as P-38J that shows a good example of the exhaust stains on the Lightning. Note the long rectangular natural metal panel along the rear of the supercharger also appeared on the P-38M night fighter. Also note the little silver oval on the side of the engine cowling between the wing and the prop. That was a highly polished area of the natural aluminum cowl, and acted as a mirror, allowing the pilot to verify that the nose gear was down. It appear in the same place on both sides of the A/C.
It's been a while since I built this kit, but I do remember that it is extremely tail heavy and hard to remedy with such a small and crowded nose - if you choose to display the gun bay. I'd suggest weight as far forward in the engines as you can get it, or glue it to a base.
-Paul
It's been a while since I built this kit, but I do remember that it is extremely tail heavy and hard to remedy with such a small and crowded nose - if you choose to display the gun bay. I'd suggest weight as far forward in the engines as you can get it, or glue it to a base.
-Paul
m1garand
Joined: February 08, 2002
KitMaker: 1,248 posts
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Posted: Monday, May 20, 2002 - 11:44 PM UTC
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
AeroScale: 287 posts
KitMaker: 12,596 posts
AeroScale: 287 posts
Posted: Monday, May 20, 2002 - 11:50 PM UTC
The kit is a decent enough kit for a 38 year old one (same age as me), but most of the PE, resin, etc. are designed for recent kits and not this monster. Why stick $20-30+ worth of aftermarket into a $10 kit that has been surpassed by $25 Hasegawa and Academy kits that are state-of-the-art? The reason why these Revell-Monogram (this kit was originally made by Monogram) kits are still on the market is that they are entry level kits. The low price is to attract new modelers into the hobby. Hopefully a child will build one and get hooked into modeling. Build it and have fun with it, attempt to super-detail it and you may end up frustrating yourself.
BTW, the Spitfire II and P-51D kits put out in the same line are very nice kits. The P-40 also is a good kit. I would avoid that UH-1 Huey Hog.
BTW, the Spitfire II and P-51D kits put out in the same line are very nice kits. The P-40 also is a good kit. I would avoid that UH-1 Huey Hog.
YodaMan
Joined: February 21, 2002
KitMaker: 1,561 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 12:24 AM UTC
Quoted Text
...Why stick $20-30+ worth of aftermarket into a $10 kit that has been surpassed by $25 Hasegawa and Academy kits that are state-of-the-art?... Build it and have fun with it, attempt to super-detail it and you may end up frustrating yourself.
Ah, there's the definate answer! I think I shall just build it and have fun with it. I've learned that listening to more experinced people than me is a wise thing to do! I'll build it, have fun, and wait for a Hasegawa kit to superdetail and add lighting to.
Thanks Rob! :-) (you know, when you think about how everyone fits into the site, Sabot is a lot more like Yoda than I. The walking encyclopedia of model kits....
)YodaMan
YodaMan
Joined: February 21, 2002
KitMaker: 1,561 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 09:06 PM UTC
Hey all, I've been sifting through those links and found a good picture for some weathering reference. Right around the superchargers: 
Here's a link to the old pic, it was just a bit too big to put in a post, I thought. http://p-38online.com/p-38j-2.jpg
YodaMan
Here's a link to the old pic, it was just a bit too big to put in a post, I thought. http://p-38online.com/p-38j-2.jpg
YodaMan
Phantom
Joined: April 13, 2002
KitMaker: 195 posts
AeroScale: 52 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 21, 2002 - 11:50 PM UTC
Yep, that's the shot I was talking about. That dark green should be a pretty good reference for a gloss black scheme.
-Paul
-Paul
YodaMan
Joined: February 21, 2002
KitMaker: 1,561 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 01:20 AM UTC
Is it really gloss black? Or would a semi-gloss coat be more accurate? It is a relatively glossy finish. I think those two refelectors on the engines will be an interesting detail point.
YodaMan
YodaMan
YodaMan
Joined: February 21, 2002
KitMaker: 1,561 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 01:46 AM UTC
Uh oh.
I just found a few pics of a restored night fighter and noticed that the paint is different than I thought it would be. 
Here's the link click here...
Seems that the landing gear doors were bare metal. As was the cockpit. I didn't see any interior green... I think I'll follow those references for the next P-38 kit. (and I will be getting another model of this plane!)
I think I'll just go with the silver scheme for now.
Exactly why you gather all reference photos before you start painting!
YodaMan
I just found a few pics of a restored night fighter
and noticed that the paint is different than I thought it would be. Here's the link click here... Seems that the landing gear doors were bare metal. As was the cockpit. I didn't see any interior green... I think I'll follow those references for the next P-38 kit. (and I will be getting another model of this plane!)
I think I'll just go with the silver scheme for now.
Exactly why you gather all reference photos before you start painting!
YodaMan
penpen
Joined: April 11, 2002
KitMaker: 1,757 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 02:07 AM UTC
You must beware from restored planes !
Quite often, they are "too beautiful".
By that, I mean that the paint is often too glossy, chromes used too often...
Also, they don't give much of an idea about weathering, because they are so clean...
good luck with your searches !
Quite often, they are "too beautiful".
By that, I mean that the paint is often too glossy, chromes used too often...
Also, they don't give much of an idea about weathering, because they are so clean...
good luck with your searches !
Phantom
Joined: April 13, 2002
KitMaker: 195 posts
AeroScale: 52 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 04:15 AM UTC
I'll second Penpens warning on using restored craft as references. A lot of times restorers use a gloss paint for better durability, and a lot of times the restored schemes are either fictional or just wrong.
In the case of the night fighter P-38M, I'm 99% sure it was overall gloss black, I'll dig through my references at home tonight and make sure. I don't know if I suggested it before, but you might try bare metal foil for the small oval panels.
-Paul
In the case of the night fighter P-38M, I'm 99% sure it was overall gloss black, I'll dig through my references at home tonight and make sure. I don't know if I suggested it before, but you might try bare metal foil for the small oval panels.
-Paul
YodaMan
Joined: February 21, 2002
KitMaker: 1,561 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 04:40 AM UTC
Do you think that the interior color was still the green? That's the main thing I'm thinking about. Sorry if I've got too many questions - I am somewhat of a perfectionist......
......about some things......
YodaMan
......about some things......
YodaMan
ladymodelbuilder
Joined: February 26, 2002
KitMaker: 1,218 posts
AeroScale: 424 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 08:28 AM UTC
Yoda,
Check out http://www.thelostsquadron.com :-) This is the P-38 that was pulled out of an ice cap up in Greenland. You can go to the slide show and see what some of the guts of her looks like. Hope this helps ya.
Check out http://www.thelostsquadron.com :-) This is the P-38 that was pulled out of an ice cap up in Greenland. You can go to the slide show and see what some of the guts of her looks like. Hope this helps ya.
YodaMan
Joined: February 21, 2002
KitMaker: 1,561 posts
AeroScale: 0 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 22, 2002 - 10:00 AM UTC
Ah, I forgot about that site. Thanks for bringing it up, Lady! It appears that the guts are a greenish-yellow. I'll just stick to the green, build the model for fun, and worry about every little detail next time. Thanks all!
Have you ever built a P-38 kit, Lady? (come to think of it, what era do you primarily build?)
I find 1/48 airplanes are more fun for me than 1/72. Cool! :-)
YodaMan
Have you ever built a P-38 kit, Lady? (come to think of it, what era do you primarily build?)
I find 1/48 airplanes are more fun for me than 1/72. Cool! :-)
YodaMan
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