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15 years later
heavyjagdpanzer
Georgia, United States
Joined: February 17, 2013
KitMaker: 173 posts
AeroScale: 108 posts
Joined: February 17, 2013
KitMaker: 173 posts
AeroScale: 108 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 09, 2013 - 12:45 PM UTC
After more than 15 years, I have got a model started! It’s a PM Fokker D XXI. I bought this model on EBay several years ago. I like obscure aircraft like the Fokker. I have a keen interest in the Finnish air force during WW II, and the kit was cheap. Between buying the kit and now I have found out the kit IS cheap. I have become aware of its shortcomings, and I will try to improve on a few of them. I have got a Pavla canopy to replace the “coke bottle bottom” canopy that comes with the kit. I got a cheap Airfix Blenheim from EBay, and will try to use that engine cowling. This is going to be a “practice kit’. I have already got the Special Hobby and the MPM version of this kit. My plan is to build several older kits to “practice” on, so I might be able to gain experience, and do a better job on the newer kits.
Siderius
Tennessee, United States
Joined: September 20, 2005
KitMaker: 1,747 posts
AeroScale: 1,673 posts
Joined: September 20, 2005
KitMaker: 1,747 posts
AeroScale: 1,673 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 09, 2013 - 12:49 PM UTC
Good for you Bill, glad to see you in the hobby. I have been modeling all my life, but seriously, using an airbrush is the only measure I have of serious, sorry, for about 15 years. There are months when I can't even get to the workbench so don't worry about it. Keep on modeling. Russell
Posted: Tuesday, July 09, 2013 - 07:43 PM UTC
Hi Bill, welcome to the hobby It sounds like you are taking the correct approach, I should have done this when I returned to the hobby and its this sort of thing that I suggest to anyone that I talk to about taking it up.
Do post pictures of your progress, that is the best way to get constructive help; and we all like to see pictures of models being built
Do post pictures of your progress, that is the best way to get constructive help; and we all like to see pictures of models being built
heavyjagdpanzer
Georgia, United States
Joined: February 17, 2013
KitMaker: 173 posts
AeroScale: 108 posts
Joined: February 17, 2013
KitMaker: 173 posts
AeroScale: 108 posts
Posted: Tuesday, July 09, 2013 - 09:54 PM UTC
Am sure I will have some questions. Tools and techniques have changed since I was in the hobby last. I have posted one photo of the start of my build. I will post more when I make some progress. Anybody that has something helpful to say, please chime in.
Posted: Tuesday, July 09, 2013 - 11:31 PM UTC
would like to see that picture,
you can include it in your forum post here by putting 'img' and '/img' in square brackets around the url of the photo..
you can include it in your forum post here by putting 'img' and '/img' in square brackets around the url of the photo..
Joel_W
Associate Editor
New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 - 01:23 AM UTC
Bill,
Welcome back to our hobby. You'll find that many of us are returnees after being away for years and years. My hiatus was around 30 years, then I took a 2 year stint in the world of USA WW11 armor before settling back to aircraft.
While many things have changed and been improved, the basics are exactly what they were. Today there are AM Resin and PE parts for interiors, and exteriors that just weren't available when you were last in the hobby.
Just take your time, and enjoy each build, and of course enjoy all that Aeroscale has to offer.
And please post update pictures as you progress in your build.
Joel
Welcome back to our hobby. You'll find that many of us are returnees after being away for years and years. My hiatus was around 30 years, then I took a 2 year stint in the world of USA WW11 armor before settling back to aircraft.
While many things have changed and been improved, the basics are exactly what they were. Today there are AM Resin and PE parts for interiors, and exteriors that just weren't available when you were last in the hobby.
Just take your time, and enjoy each build, and of course enjoy all that Aeroscale has to offer.
And please post update pictures as you progress in your build.
Joel
Posted: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 - 02:21 AM UTC
Hi Bill,
I'm right with you, following the same, obviously well-trodden path back to the hobby! In my case it is probably more than 25 years! I have been "learning" airbrushing recently, on paper, card, old cd's and remnants of old kits. I have also been experimenting with as many new tools, glues, fillers and paints (acrylic) that are available these days - what a revelation! I have a part built Airfix 1/72 A-7E and "Navy Lynx" ( so old it doesn't even quote the mark) from way-back-when to "practice" on before starting on some 1/48 prop projects - a P-47D and a SPAD XIII for a friend! Like you, my aim is to improve the basic kit, not just build as I did in the past, in particular mixing AM parts with scratch building - I only hope my eyes and digits can come up to expectations! I am also enjoying these modelling forums and your post has encouraged me to dive in and "contribute" too rather than just look on! I may even get to the point of submitting photos too, if I can beat the techie bit!
Good luck with your builds!
I'm right with you, following the same, obviously well-trodden path back to the hobby! In my case it is probably more than 25 years! I have been "learning" airbrushing recently, on paper, card, old cd's and remnants of old kits. I have also been experimenting with as many new tools, glues, fillers and paints (acrylic) that are available these days - what a revelation! I have a part built Airfix 1/72 A-7E and "Navy Lynx" ( so old it doesn't even quote the mark) from way-back-when to "practice" on before starting on some 1/48 prop projects - a P-47D and a SPAD XIII for a friend! Like you, my aim is to improve the basic kit, not just build as I did in the past, in particular mixing AM parts with scratch building - I only hope my eyes and digits can come up to expectations! I am also enjoying these modelling forums and your post has encouraged me to dive in and "contribute" too rather than just look on! I may even get to the point of submitting photos too, if I can beat the techie bit!
Good luck with your builds!
Joel_W
Associate Editor
New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 - 03:09 AM UTC
Ray, the more you join in with posts and your own build threads, the more you'll get out the Aeroscale and the hobby, not to mention it's way more fun then just seating on the sidelines lurking.
Airbrushing is a skill that I mastered 35 years ago, and hasn't changed much in all that time, it's the paints that are a completely new revelation. Back then everything was enamels with their slow drying time. Today all I shoot is acrylics unless I'm after a NMF, then it's lacquer based Allcad 11s. Once I came up with a thinning formula, and PSIs for general, and up close and personal, the application is exactly the same. Don't waste your time practicing on paper products as they will absorb paint. So what you think works well, most likely won't work on plastic. Practicing on old kits is the better way.
Joel
Airbrushing is a skill that I mastered 35 years ago, and hasn't changed much in all that time, it's the paints that are a completely new revelation. Back then everything was enamels with their slow drying time. Today all I shoot is acrylics unless I'm after a NMF, then it's lacquer based Allcad 11s. Once I came up with a thinning formula, and PSIs for general, and up close and personal, the application is exactly the same. Don't waste your time practicing on paper products as they will absorb paint. So what you think works well, most likely won't work on plastic. Practicing on old kits is the better way.
Joel
Posted: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 - 04:04 AM UTC
Joel,
Your absolutely right on both counts! Back in the day, it was very much a "lone" hobby - the nearest I came to a modelling discussion was the odd letter to the old Airfix magazine (it was in A5 format back then!) - even had one published! Never really had the chance to join a club either! Now its almost instant and global! Great!
I quickly realised that just using flat surfaces was not taking me far with the airbrushing but it allowed me to get the feel of the beast and its control! I quickly moved on to the plastic remnants I had thoughtfully stashed away all those years ago - particularly the wings and engine from an old 1/24 Spit! I have been experimenting with primers and various finishes (Tamiya, Vallejo and Gunze acrylics) and am now trying out various NMF including the buffables - will get to Alclad eventually! NMF in the old brush-painted enamel days was never very satisfactory for me! I have a series of OOB builds planned just to get some different subjects to practice on. Really enjoying being back in the hobby!
Thanks for the encouragement!
Ray
Your absolutely right on both counts! Back in the day, it was very much a "lone" hobby - the nearest I came to a modelling discussion was the odd letter to the old Airfix magazine (it was in A5 format back then!) - even had one published! Never really had the chance to join a club either! Now its almost instant and global! Great!
I quickly realised that just using flat surfaces was not taking me far with the airbrushing but it allowed me to get the feel of the beast and its control! I quickly moved on to the plastic remnants I had thoughtfully stashed away all those years ago - particularly the wings and engine from an old 1/24 Spit! I have been experimenting with primers and various finishes (Tamiya, Vallejo and Gunze acrylics) and am now trying out various NMF including the buffables - will get to Alclad eventually! NMF in the old brush-painted enamel days was never very satisfactory for me! I have a series of OOB builds planned just to get some different subjects to practice on. Really enjoying being back in the hobby!
Thanks for the encouragement!
Ray
golfermd
Maryland, United States
Joined: March 01, 2013
KitMaker: 152 posts
AeroScale: 98 posts
Joined: March 01, 2013
KitMaker: 152 posts
AeroScale: 98 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 - 04:33 AM UTC
Hi Bill,
Many of us here built models at a much earlier age. For some of us, much, much earlier (polite way of saying old fart). Life gets in the way so we now return. Don't be afraid to ask questions. I've asked many myself. You will find lots of great people here with tons of experience who are more than willing to share!
Many of us here built models at a much earlier age. For some of us, much, much earlier (polite way of saying old fart). Life gets in the way so we now return. Don't be afraid to ask questions. I've asked many myself. You will find lots of great people here with tons of experience who are more than willing to share!
Posted: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 - 04:48 AM UTC
Hi Bill,
Welcome back!
Good approach to getting back in. Plenty of people here at Aeroscale & Kitmaker in general who will be glad to help.
Best advice for a modeler: keep it fun! Unless you thrive on it and get enjoyment from it, avoid AMS (Advanced Modeler Syndrome) that can drive you crazy about, say, a pitot tube being a scale 3% too big.
Welcome back to the fun!
Welcome back!
Good approach to getting back in. Plenty of people here at Aeroscale & Kitmaker in general who will be glad to help.
Best advice for a modeler: keep it fun! Unless you thrive on it and get enjoyment from it, avoid AMS (Advanced Modeler Syndrome) that can drive you crazy about, say, a pitot tube being a scale 3% too big.
Welcome back to the fun!
heavyjagdpanzer
Georgia, United States
Joined: February 17, 2013
KitMaker: 173 posts
AeroScale: 108 posts
Joined: February 17, 2013
KitMaker: 173 posts
AeroScale: 108 posts
Posted: Wednesday, July 10, 2013 - 10:16 AM UTC
I am looking forward to trying the new acrylic paints. Back in the day I tried Polly S, but you could scratch it with your nail. Looking in my old paint box (most have dried up) I had several bottles of Acu-Flex, but I can’t remember if it was any good. I used Model Master Enamel on this model because it was the only thing available locally in that shade of gray.
I now have another reason to switch to acrylics. Since I started getting my build table ready, we have adopted an abandoned kitten, and my hobby room has become his room too! The wife is concerned about the smell of paint thinner in the room. I did buy a vented spray booth, but you can still smell some of it.
And speaking of buying paint, when I moved to Atlanta in the late 80s there were a dozen or more hobby shops in the metro area, including two in my community, they are now closed, and the few around tend to be specialized for RC or trains. There are no “real “hobby shops within a 30 minute drive. I guess I will have to mail order my paints.
I now have another reason to switch to acrylics. Since I started getting my build table ready, we have adopted an abandoned kitten, and my hobby room has become his room too! The wife is concerned about the smell of paint thinner in the room. I did buy a vented spray booth, but you can still smell some of it.
And speaking of buying paint, when I moved to Atlanta in the late 80s there were a dozen or more hobby shops in the metro area, including two in my community, they are now closed, and the few around tend to be specialized for RC or trains. There are no “real “hobby shops within a 30 minute drive. I guess I will have to mail order my paints.
Joel_W
Associate Editor
New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Thursday, July 11, 2013 - 01:30 AM UTC
Bill, I guess that I'm more fortunate then most when it comes to LHS. I have one great hobby shop 30 min from my house that is dedicated to plastics: South Shore Hobbies. Bobby runs what my brother and I call a miniature Sprue Brothers. Online I've always dealt with Sprue Brothers, great selection, live inventory, 24 hr turn around, & great prices. I've also had dealings with the Squadron Shop, close to Sprue Brothers but not quite, & Pacific Coast Hobbies. You can always ask for opinions & suggestions about online shops, and people to avoid any issues down the road.
Like I said, I paint strictly with acrylics these days. My basic mix is:
Tamiya 1:1 using they X-20A thinner. Main paint line
Model Master 2:1 X-20A Thinner. Secondary line
Life Color: 1:1 distilled water. Special colors. Really love this line, but have to order it from Sprue Brothers.
Pledge/Future: straight from the bottle, always airbrushed. Cleanup with Windex.
Air compressor regulator 18-20 psi for dark colors, 16-18 psi for light colors.
Air Brush, still old school. Same model gun for 35 years. Paasche H-1 single action, external mix. I have all three needle/cone sizes. I use #3 for 95% my painting. Very easy to tear down & clean. Simple to use, and a lot less parts. Parts are available at any good art supply store.
When cleaning your air brush don't use Tamiya X-20A. Way too expensive. Use plain old 70% Iso alcohol. Every once in a while I clean everything in lacquer thinner. Do it in spray booth.
Practice on a few parts, then it's time to paint a model. Just is different then practicing. "the pressure is on". only joking. My advice is to pick a aircraft that has a simple two tone paint scheme, as you'll only have to deal with the major demarcation line. There are a few tricks to control overspray, but learning how to do a feathered line is important. Not hard, just a little different application.
Joel
Like I said, I paint strictly with acrylics these days. My basic mix is:
Tamiya 1:1 using they X-20A thinner. Main paint line
Model Master 2:1 X-20A Thinner. Secondary line
Life Color: 1:1 distilled water. Special colors. Really love this line, but have to order it from Sprue Brothers.
Pledge/Future: straight from the bottle, always airbrushed. Cleanup with Windex.
Air compressor regulator 18-20 psi for dark colors, 16-18 psi for light colors.
Air Brush, still old school. Same model gun for 35 years. Paasche H-1 single action, external mix. I have all three needle/cone sizes. I use #3 for 95% my painting. Very easy to tear down & clean. Simple to use, and a lot less parts. Parts are available at any good art supply store.
When cleaning your air brush don't use Tamiya X-20A. Way too expensive. Use plain old 70% Iso alcohol. Every once in a while I clean everything in lacquer thinner. Do it in spray booth.
Practice on a few parts, then it's time to paint a model. Just is different then practicing. "the pressure is on". only joking. My advice is to pick a aircraft that has a simple two tone paint scheme, as you'll only have to deal with the major demarcation line. There are a few tricks to control overspray, but learning how to do a feathered line is important. Not hard, just a little different application.
Joel
heavyjagdpanzer
Georgia, United States
Joined: February 17, 2013
KitMaker: 173 posts
AeroScale: 108 posts
Joined: February 17, 2013
KitMaker: 173 posts
AeroScale: 108 posts
Posted: Thursday, July 11, 2013 - 07:55 AM UTC
Joel
I use the same Paasche H-1 airbrush that I have had since the Eighty’s. I just bought a new #3 tip and two new paint cups. I have been practicing and “tuning” the paint mixture on an empty plastic two liter coke bottle. We go through 3 or 4 a week, so there is not a shortage of something to paint on.
The Fokker D XXI that I am working on has a simple OD green upper surface and a light gray underside. I think I am going to try Tamiya paint on the exterior.
I use the same Paasche H-1 airbrush that I have had since the Eighty’s. I just bought a new #3 tip and two new paint cups. I have been practicing and “tuning” the paint mixture on an empty plastic two liter coke bottle. We go through 3 or 4 a week, so there is not a shortage of something to paint on.
The Fokker D XXI that I am working on has a simple OD green upper surface and a light gray underside. I think I am going to try Tamiya paint on the exterior.
Joel_W
Associate Editor
New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Friday, July 12, 2013 - 01:03 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Joel...The Fokker D XXI that I am working on has a simple OD green upper surface and a light gray underside. I think I am going to try Tamiya paint on the exterior.
Bill, Use the Tamiya Acrylics mixed with the 1:1 ratio, and you'll be fine. Just remember to use light passes to build up the color a little at a time. If the demarcation line is a feathered edge, you can use White Tack to help control any over spray. Looking forward to following your build.
Joel
vdejarnette
Maryland, United States
Joined: February 25, 2013
KitMaker: 209 posts
AeroScale: 138 posts
Joined: February 25, 2013
KitMaker: 209 posts
AeroScale: 138 posts
Posted: Friday, July 12, 2013 - 02:19 AM UTC
Your mileage may vary, but as a warning I've had a lot of issues with Tamiya acrylics being easily scratched off if you spray them on bare plastic.
Paint drying on the tip and clogging the airbrush is also a huge PIA to deal with compared to working with oil based paints, so you need to clean the end of the airbrush with a q-tip + thinner very regularly or use some acrylic retarder. Testors Modelmaster acrylics I have also found to be more durable than Tamiya despite being the most likely to clog your airbrush.
I suggest Vallejo Acrylics instead, personally. The Model Air brand can be airbrushed straight from the bottle (and the bottles are eyedroppers so you don't waste paint), and the color selection is massive compared to Tamiya which requires alot of mixing to get certain colors you may be looking for. They are also by far the most durable acrylics I have found.
I've heard the new Italeri acrylic line is produced by Vallejo also but could be wrong.
Paint drying on the tip and clogging the airbrush is also a huge PIA to deal with compared to working with oil based paints, so you need to clean the end of the airbrush with a q-tip + thinner very regularly or use some acrylic retarder. Testors Modelmaster acrylics I have also found to be more durable than Tamiya despite being the most likely to clog your airbrush.
I suggest Vallejo Acrylics instead, personally. The Model Air brand can be airbrushed straight from the bottle (and the bottles are eyedroppers so you don't waste paint), and the color selection is massive compared to Tamiya which requires alot of mixing to get certain colors you may be looking for. They are also by far the most durable acrylics I have found.
I've heard the new Italeri acrylic line is produced by Vallejo also but could be wrong.
Joel_W
Associate Editor
New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Friday, July 12, 2013 - 02:55 AM UTC
Van, odd, but I've had the exact opposite results. Model Master Acrylics just didn't stick all that well to plastic but had decent adhesion to Tamiya primer, just didn't adhere very well to their own primer. Even masking with Tamiya tape was an issue at times.
With the Tamiya paints, I found that once cured for a day, they became very durable, and were just as scratch resistant as enamels or lacquer based paints. They just took longer to cure.
Joel
With the Tamiya paints, I found that once cured for a day, they became very durable, and were just as scratch resistant as enamels or lacquer based paints. They just took longer to cure.
Joel
heavyjagdpanzer
Georgia, United States
Joined: February 17, 2013
KitMaker: 173 posts
AeroScale: 108 posts
Joined: February 17, 2013
KitMaker: 173 posts
AeroScale: 108 posts
Posted: Friday, July 12, 2013 - 05:07 AM UTC
I had been trying to decide between Vallejo and Tamiya based on what I had read in various forums, since I don’t have experience with ether. I guess I will have to give both a try and see what happens.
vdejarnette
Maryland, United States
Joined: February 25, 2013
KitMaker: 209 posts
AeroScale: 138 posts
Joined: February 25, 2013
KitMaker: 209 posts
AeroScale: 138 posts
Posted: Friday, July 12, 2013 - 05:59 AM UTC
Unless you enjoy mixing paints I seriously suggest Vallejo, that and the pre-thinned paint mix coming in eye dropper bottles are the biggest advantages.
Tamiya acrylics also can react with mineral spirits if you want to do any weathering with enamels or oils, and the gloss paints do not handle future well without a long cure time eclipsing what I usually find necessary for enamels. Not much of a problem for most aircraft, but I will never use Tamiya acrylic again for a car body if I can help it.
Tamiya acrylics also can react with mineral spirits if you want to do any weathering with enamels or oils, and the gloss paints do not handle future well without a long cure time eclipsing what I usually find necessary for enamels. Not much of a problem for most aircraft, but I will never use Tamiya acrylic again for a car body if I can help it.
Joel_W
Associate Editor
New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Friday, July 12, 2013 - 09:57 AM UTC
Van, you're correct about needing to mix colors every so often as Tamiya's line isn't complete by any means. And yes, like most hobby paints, you do have to thin them. The advantage to that is that you're getting more paint for the buck then when you buy pre-thinned paints. So it's a convenience vs. quantity thing.
The few times that I needed to do a gloss paint job was for a couple of races cars I built, and for those I opted to go with Tamiya aerosol cans, which are lacquer based.
I guess the bottom line is that I can get Tamiya and Model Master paints locally, so that's what I usually go with. Even Allcads are carried by my LHS.
Joel
The few times that I needed to do a gloss paint job was for a couple of races cars I built, and for those I opted to go with Tamiya aerosol cans, which are lacquer based.
I guess the bottom line is that I can get Tamiya and Model Master paints locally, so that's what I usually go with. Even Allcads are carried by my LHS.
Joel
heavyjagdpanzer
Georgia, United States
Joined: February 17, 2013
KitMaker: 173 posts
AeroScale: 108 posts
Joined: February 17, 2013
KitMaker: 173 posts
AeroScale: 108 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 - 10:59 AM UTC
I have actually made a little progress on my PM Fokker D XXI build. I have spent most of my time gathering supplies and tools. I had the basics, but some new tools and techniques have come along since I last built a model.
I do have the wings and skis together and sanded. This is supposed to be a “practice kit”, If puttying and sanding is what I wanted to practice, this is the kit!
The Finnish version of this plane had teardrop blisters on the cowling. The PM kit has a smooth cowling, like the Dutch version. I got a cheap Airfix Bristol Blenheim for the engine and nacelles. This had the blisters, but the mold line went right across them and there was flash and misalignment. There was lots of filing, sanding, and polishing.
The Blenheim engine looked better than the PM one, but the prop was too big. I filed and reshaped it, to better match the scale drawings for this plane.PM prop is on left,Airfix on right
In the cockpit area, the only thing that came with the PM kit was a seat. I got a Kuivalainen Photo Etch kit, to add some of the more visible interior parts. One of the most noticeable features of this aircraft is the rollover frame and supports behind the pilots seat. Since I bought this kit, I have got the Special hobby kit also. I used the Special hobby frame as a guide and made one out of plastic stock. The lite gray one is the part I made.
I hope to have some more updates soon.
I do have the wings and skis together and sanded. This is supposed to be a “practice kit”, If puttying and sanding is what I wanted to practice, this is the kit!
The Finnish version of this plane had teardrop blisters on the cowling. The PM kit has a smooth cowling, like the Dutch version. I got a cheap Airfix Bristol Blenheim for the engine and nacelles. This had the blisters, but the mold line went right across them and there was flash and misalignment. There was lots of filing, sanding, and polishing.
The Blenheim engine looked better than the PM one, but the prop was too big. I filed and reshaped it, to better match the scale drawings for this plane.PM prop is on left,Airfix on right
In the cockpit area, the only thing that came with the PM kit was a seat. I got a Kuivalainen Photo Etch kit, to add some of the more visible interior parts. One of the most noticeable features of this aircraft is the rollover frame and supports behind the pilots seat. Since I bought this kit, I have got the Special hobby kit also. I used the Special hobby frame as a guide and made one out of plastic stock. The lite gray one is the part I made.
I hope to have some more updates soon.