In preparation for my SEPT / OCT 1/48 builds I would like to know what a B-29 fuslage was made of.
I only use ALCLAD.
I will be using the PYN-up decals on my B-29, "The Outlaw" (Jane Russell) artwork.
World War II
Discuss WWII and the era directly before and after the war from 1935-1949.
Discuss WWII and the era directly before and after the war from 1935-1949.
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B-29
Ibuild148
California, United States
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Posted: Monday, August 12, 2013 - 03:33 PM UTC
wychdoctor92394
California, United States
Joined: July 07, 2013
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Joined: July 07, 2013
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Posted: Monday, August 12, 2013 - 07:27 PM UTC
Quoted Text
In preparation for my SEPT / OCT 1/48 builds I would like to know what a B-29 fuslage was made of.
I only use ALCLAD.
I will be using the PYN-up decals on my B-29, "The Outlaw" (Jane Russell) artwork.
Are you asking what the model would be made of, or are you asking what the structural metal was in the real aircraft?
If it's the real aircraft, then you would have had aluminum skin over steel semi-monoque construction; similar to the B-17 Fortress, and you can see a lot of that in most pictures online.
BTW, Jane Russell is a very good choice for a pin-up...!
Ibuild148
California, United States
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Posted: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 - 02:46 AM UTC
what the structural metal was in the real aircraft
Thanks James. I wrote that ? as I was heading off to sleep. However you answered what I thought.
Thanks James. I wrote that ? as I was heading off to sleep. However you answered what I thought.
wychdoctor92394
California, United States
Joined: July 07, 2013
KitMaker: 219 posts
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Joined: July 07, 2013
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Posted: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 - 02:55 AM UTC
You're welcome...
Posted: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 - 05:48 AM UTC
Marc,
B-29 models are a fascinating beast to paint! You may be familiar with his image:
Note the band over the fuselage between the wings that is so much lighter? Note the darker strips inboard of the wingtips? Note that the wing structure between those two areas appears much duller, compared to the fuselage, than the trailing half of the wings over the flaps.
Why is this? It is how light reflects from the surface: ambient; diffuse; emissive; specular (I probably mis-used those terms.)
It was explained to me from an A&P (Airframe & Powerplant mechanic) that when the light is right, the 'grain' of the American 75ST and 24ST aluminum alloy will reflect a clear sky differently: NMF silver, silver-gray, bluish-silver, eye-searing white-silver. Same metal, different 'colors.'
B-29 wings were assembled as a single main piece extending to just beyond the outboard engine nacelles; then the leading and trailing edges were added. There is an assembly line photo of a B-29 broken down into its major sub-assemblies: nose to pressure bulkhead at the forward bomb bay; center fuselage section; rear fuselage with empennage from pressure bulkhead aft of bomb bay; nacelles; outer wings beginning at the ailerons. So as light reflects from the skin a variety of factors create what appear to be different colored panels. And I don't know for certain but perhaps the B-29 wing center section was painted with a smoothing coat of glossy aluminum paint like the P-51's wings were.
One other thing to consider is that unprotected aluminum will oxidize into a dull gray. Back in 1993 or so I visited NASM Silver Hill restoration facility and actually got to touch - with permission- Enola Gay. (They were trying different skin polish/protectants and encouraged the unwashed to slap our greasy palms upon the artifact.) Even though Enola Gay had been in protected storage for years her skin was not gleaming like when she was newer.
What's my experience? When I built Monogram's 1/48 B-29 long ago I examined Shep Paine's insert and B-29 books. I mixed up seven different 'silvers,' chrome, silver, aluminum, tinted with blue, with gray... I probably overdid it back then yet she was impressive.
It is a wonderful time to be a modeler! You shall have enough ALCAD to create the most intricate B-29 finish. I love Floquil and found years ago that a NMF of Silver, Old Silver, and Platinum Mist looks great as is, plus can be buffed to different effects.
BTW, ignore CAF's Fifi which is overpainted with protective aluminum paint.
Here's a color film from WW2 that has some scenes of what I have attempted to impart: http://beforeitsnews.com/motor-junkies/2013/07/color-film-of-a-b-29-flight-with-p-51-escorts-on-a-run-to-bomb-japan-2472640.html
I hope this is useful.
B-29 models are a fascinating beast to paint! You may be familiar with his image:
Note the band over the fuselage between the wings that is so much lighter? Note the darker strips inboard of the wingtips? Note that the wing structure between those two areas appears much duller, compared to the fuselage, than the trailing half of the wings over the flaps.
Why is this? It is how light reflects from the surface: ambient; diffuse; emissive; specular (I probably mis-used those terms.)
It was explained to me from an A&P (Airframe & Powerplant mechanic) that when the light is right, the 'grain' of the American 75ST and 24ST aluminum alloy will reflect a clear sky differently: NMF silver, silver-gray, bluish-silver, eye-searing white-silver. Same metal, different 'colors.'
B-29 wings were assembled as a single main piece extending to just beyond the outboard engine nacelles; then the leading and trailing edges were added. There is an assembly line photo of a B-29 broken down into its major sub-assemblies: nose to pressure bulkhead at the forward bomb bay; center fuselage section; rear fuselage with empennage from pressure bulkhead aft of bomb bay; nacelles; outer wings beginning at the ailerons. So as light reflects from the skin a variety of factors create what appear to be different colored panels. And I don't know for certain but perhaps the B-29 wing center section was painted with a smoothing coat of glossy aluminum paint like the P-51's wings were.
One other thing to consider is that unprotected aluminum will oxidize into a dull gray. Back in 1993 or so I visited NASM Silver Hill restoration facility and actually got to touch - with permission- Enola Gay. (They were trying different skin polish/protectants and encouraged the unwashed to slap our greasy palms upon the artifact.) Even though Enola Gay had been in protected storage for years her skin was not gleaming like when she was newer.
What's my experience? When I built Monogram's 1/48 B-29 long ago I examined Shep Paine's insert and B-29 books. I mixed up seven different 'silvers,' chrome, silver, aluminum, tinted with blue, with gray... I probably overdid it back then yet she was impressive.
Quoted Text
I only use ALCLAD.
It is a wonderful time to be a modeler! You shall have enough ALCAD to create the most intricate B-29 finish. I love Floquil and found years ago that a NMF of Silver, Old Silver, and Platinum Mist looks great as is, plus can be buffed to different effects.
BTW, ignore CAF's Fifi which is overpainted with protective aluminum paint.
Here's a color film from WW2 that has some scenes of what I have attempted to impart: http://beforeitsnews.com/motor-junkies/2013/07/color-film-of-a-b-29-flight-with-p-51-escorts-on-a-run-to-bomb-japan-2472640.html
I hope this is useful.
Jessie_C
British Columbia, Canada
Joined: September 03, 2009
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Posted: Tuesday, August 13, 2013 - 07:43 AM UTC
Quoted Text
And I don't know for certain but perhaps the B-29 wing center section was painted with a smoothing coat of glossy aluminum paint like the P-51's wings were.
Since that area is where the fuel tanks live, it's a good bet that it's coated in Coroguard finish. Boeing has been using this on fuel tank wing spar boxes for decades. It's a matte greyish-silver colour with no "official" standard, since each batch is mixed up on site when it's applied. It often looks different depending on how the light hits it. For example, look at this aircraft: Two different colours on two different wings, same Coroguard on both. Whatever looks good to you will be correct
An alternative to Alclad is to use foil. I'm not suggesting that for your B-29, but if you read through this build you'll see a great demonstration of the grain Fred was talking about, and how this particular modeller achieves that using real metal.
GastonMarty
Quebec, Canada
Joined: April 19, 2008
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Posted: Sunday, August 18, 2013 - 10:53 AM UTC
The reason why the center protion reflects light differently is that this area is made of thicker MACHINED metal rather than rolled sheet metal, as on all other WWII aircrafts...
This was unique at the time to the B-29: The difference in colour is due to the fact that machined metal has a machine-generated unidirectional abrasion grain that would be tough to polish out: The direction of the grain will catch the light different depending on light angle: Thus it can look lighter or darker depending on light angle or orientation.
Some wartime B-29s were highly buffed, and I don"t know how it would affect the center portions. The different shade was not paint but could look like it on a model, though beyond 1:72 the appearance could be hard to nail down...
Gaston
Ibuild148
California, United States
Joined: May 25, 2009
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Posted: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 - 04:19 PM UTC
Sorry for the late reply of thanks. Life got in the way.
Frederick - Thanks for the GREAT post. A lot to consider and I see patience will be tested.
Jessica - Thank you for chiming in. Not a fan of foil and Alclad is a wonder paint for me.
Gaston - Appreciate the input.
Frederick - Thanks for the GREAT post. A lot to consider and I see patience will be tested.
Jessica - Thank you for chiming in. Not a fan of foil and Alclad is a wonder paint for me.
Gaston - Appreciate the input.
Posted: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 - 04:47 PM UTC
Quoted Text
The reason why the center protion reflects light differently is that this area is made of thicker MACHINED metal rather than rolled sheet metal...machined metal has a machine-generated unidirectional abrasion grain that would be tough to polish out
Gaston,
Thank you. That sheds light (Pardon the pun.) on a question I've had for a looooonnng time.
EdgarBrooks
England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: June 03, 2006
KitMaker: 397 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, August 21, 2013 - 07:52 PM UTC
We were always told that the difference in texture was due to those areas being made of a different metal (magnesium?)
Antoni
England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: June 03, 2006
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Posted: Saturday, August 24, 2013 - 08:58 PM UTC
The engine crankcases were made from magnesium but the aircraft predominantly from aluminium alloys. 24ST is the one that gets the most mention which is Alclad and so was probably what was used for the skin.
Alclad is a sandwich of pure aluminum and Duralumin. The surface of pure aluminium quickly oxidizes and the aluminium oxide forms a thin layer that protects the aluminium from further corrosion. Aluminium is, however, not very strong.
Duralumin is an alloy of aluminium with aprrox 4.5% copper and smaller amounts of manganese and magnesium. Duralumin is harder and stronger than aluminium so thnner sheets can be used, but it does not inherit the corrosion resistance of aluminium.
Alclad is made by pressing sheets of the hot metal through rollers so that the layers bond together. The outer layers of pure aluminium provide corrosion resistance while the inner Duralumin provides strength.
Similar to a Mustang, the central panels on the wings were painted with aluminium lacquer.
Alclad is a sandwich of pure aluminum and Duralumin. The surface of pure aluminium quickly oxidizes and the aluminium oxide forms a thin layer that protects the aluminium from further corrosion. Aluminium is, however, not very strong.
Duralumin is an alloy of aluminium with aprrox 4.5% copper and smaller amounts of manganese and magnesium. Duralumin is harder and stronger than aluminium so thnner sheets can be used, but it does not inherit the corrosion resistance of aluminium.
Alclad is made by pressing sheets of the hot metal through rollers so that the layers bond together. The outer layers of pure aluminium provide corrosion resistance while the inner Duralumin provides strength.
Similar to a Mustang, the central panels on the wings were painted with aluminium lacquer.
Jessie_C
British Columbia, Canada
Joined: September 03, 2009
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Posted: Sunday, August 25, 2013 - 05:32 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Similar to a Mustang, the central panels on the wings were painted with aluminium lacquer.
Which is that Coroguard finish to which I referred earlier. It's made of a clear lacquer base to which is added aluminium powder by weight and mixed right before application.
Antoni
England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: June 03, 2006
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Posted: Sunday, August 25, 2013 - 06:39 AM UTC
Corroguard is a two-pack epoxy coating not a lacquer.