Overlooked aircraft as main line kit offering
Indiana, United States
Joined: January 13, 2009
KitMaker: 419 posts
AeroScale: 378 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 25, 2013 - 12:45 PM UTC
We've been treated to a lot of really nice new offerings lately, especially in 1/48 (my scale of choice) and 1/32. Still there are a lot of cool and historically significant craft that have yet to make it into a mainline injection molded kit. (or if they have they're ultra rare limited run and usually OOP.
This is, therefore, (and for no particular reason except for the fun of it) my 1/48 scale wish list for kits I'd love to see produced (in no particular order).
SB-2 Bomber
DO-17z (keep trying to snatch an OOP CA to no avail)
Arado 240
FW 187 (MPM has a resin one)
Bell Aracuda!!!
Curtiss C-46
Consolidated PB4Y-2
Martin B-10
Me-264
Ki-83
Ki-48 (at least one nicer than the AZ kit)
Yokasuka P1Y1
What does your list look like?
Cheers,
Fred
Current Builds:
Hawk 75/Saetta: Club Med Campaign
Me410: FROG Campaign
Mystery Build (insert here)
British Columbia, Canada
Joined: September 03, 2009
KitMaker: 6,965 posts
AeroScale: 6,247 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 25, 2013 - 01:43 PM UTC
1/72:
Canadair Argus
DHC-5 Buffalo
Grumman Albatross (more modern than the ancient Monogram kit, that is)
1/48:
Hawker Tempest II
Schweizer 2-33
Grumman FF-1/Goblin
Grumman F2F
Grumman F9F-6/8 Cougar
Grumman F11F Tiger (No, I'm not counting the FM Cougar and Tiger, even though I have them)
DH-82 Tiger Moth (and DH-82C)
Fleet Finch
I could likely think of more...
When once you have tasted flight you will walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward.
For there you have been, and there you will always long to return.
-Leonardo Da Vinci
Alberta, Canada
Joined: April 07, 2010
KitMaker: 1,028 posts
AeroScale: 939 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 25, 2013 - 01:50 PM UTC
In modern 1/48 injection molded:
Noorduyn Norseman
Beechcraft C-45 Expeditor
Cessna L-19 Bird-dog
DeHavilland Beaver
To prevent being called an 'expert', screw something up good every now and again.
Ontario, Canada
Joined: March 29, 2010
KitMaker: 1,151 posts
AeroScale: 985 posts
Posted: Sunday, August 25, 2013 - 03:04 PM UTC
You know your stash is large when you're hitting the "darn noone's ever moulded that one" wall
Indiana, United States
Joined: January 13, 2009
KitMaker: 419 posts
AeroScale: 378 posts
Posted: Monday, August 26, 2013 - 12:09 AM UTC
Quoted Text
You know your stash is large when you're hitting the "darn noone's ever moulded that one" wall
:D
Ya got me.
...but I have a plan (well, more like a goal) over the coming decades I want to build at least one of every aircraft type of the air forces of WWII.
Needless to say, I'm a little behind (unless I live to be 106 that is.)
Cheers,
Fred
Current Builds:
Hawk 75/Saetta: Club Med Campaign
Me410: FROG Campaign
Mystery Build (insert here)
Joel_W
Associate EditorNew York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Monday, August 26, 2013 - 05:26 AM UTC
Jessica must have read my mind. Being a Grumman fan (grew up 15 min from the main plant), I love all things Grumman.
1/72
Grumman Albatross that is both accurate and well detailed.
1/48
Grumman FF-1/Goblin
Grumman F2F
Ryan PT-22
Joel
On my Workbench:
Monogram 1/24 scale 427 Shelby Cobra
Just Completed:
Beemax 1/24 scale BMW M3 E30 1992 Evolution II
Merlin
Senior Editor 
#017
United Kingdom
Joined: June 11, 2003
KitMaker: 17,582 posts
AeroScale: 12,795 posts
Posted: Monday, August 26, 2013 - 05:49 AM UTC
Hi there
I'd go along with many of the suggestions so far (I'd add the Tempest V/VI to Jessie's Mk. II), and suggest the following as glaring gaps in the 1:48 mainstream line-up:
Boeing Stearman (needs a modern and accurate kit)
Boulton Paul Defiant
P-51H Mustang
P-63 Kingcobra
P/F-82 Twin Mustang
I'd also love to see the Gloster Reaper and the Saunders-Roe SR./A.1, plus the Focke-Wulf Fw 159 and Fw 191, but there's next to no chance they'll ever be done as mainstream kits.
All the best
Rowan
BEWARE OF THE FEW...
As I grow older, I regret to say that a detestable habit of thinking seems to be getting a hold of me. - H. Rider Haggard
#259
Massachusetts, United States
Joined: October 23, 2011
KitMaker: 2,265 posts
AeroScale: 1,715 posts
Posted: Monday, August 26, 2013 - 05:50 AM UTC
I have been building almost exclusively 144 scale, and I must say Ive found almost everything I want (though admittedly, I do not recognize 'mainstream injection molded' as any kind of limitation, in fact, the weirder the medium the better I like it), and mostly I tend toward the less well known aircraft.
The one odd unknown design I want that no one has made yet -
GAF Nomad
England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: September 15, 2004
KitMaker: 4,728 posts
AeroScale: 1,351 posts
Posted: Monday, August 26, 2013 - 06:05 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Jessica must have read my mind. Being a Grumman fan (grew up 15 min from the main plant, I love all things Grumman.
1/48
Grumman FF-1/Goblin
Grumman F2F
Joel
I'll join you on the Grumman FF-1 and F2F but would also like:
1/48
Hawker Nimrod II
Hawker Hart
Hawker Osprey
Hawker Tempest II & VI
Fairey IIIF
Fairey Seafox
Bristol Beaufort
Bristol Brigand
Oh and a new B-25J (both glass and straffer noses)along the lines of the Accurate Miniatures B-25B & C kits
On the bench...
Italeri A129 Mangusta
British Bulldog Spitfire theme build
Joel_W
Associate Editor New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Monday, August 26, 2013 - 06:10 AM UTC
Rowan, Nice choices. Really would love to see a P-63 King Cobra.
Joel
On my Workbench:
Monogram 1/24 scale 427 Shelby Cobra
Just Completed:
Beemax 1/24 scale BMW M3 E30 1992 Evolution II
Merlin
Senior Editor #017
United Kingdom
Joined: June 11, 2003
KitMaker: 17,582 posts
AeroScale: 12,795 posts
Posted: Monday, August 26, 2013 - 07:18 AM UTC
Hi again
This will almost read like Classic Airframes' back-catalogue, but how about the following as 1:48 mainstream kits?:
Bristol Bleinheim
Fairey Battle
Handley-Page Hampden
Lockheed Hudson
Westland Whirlwind
and perhaps it's time someone really did justice to the Hawker Hunter...
All the best
Rowan
BEWARE OF THE FEW...
As I grow older, I regret to say that a detestable habit of thinking seems to be getting a hold of me. - H. Rider Haggard
Arizona, United States
Joined: February 25, 2007
KitMaker: 1,066 posts
AeroScale: 214 posts
Posted: Monday, August 26, 2013 - 07:45 AM UTC
If we're including helis, I've always hoped for a 1/48th Mi-8. An Mi-2 has been released, so I guess it could still happen at some point, but it's puzzling to see more obscure types done when this widely-used heli still hasn't been.
England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: September 15, 2004
KitMaker: 4,728 posts
AeroScale: 1,351 posts
Posted: Monday, August 26, 2013 - 07:57 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi again
This will almost read like Classic Airframes' back-catalogue, but how about the following as 1:48 mainstream kits?:
Bristol Bleinheim
Fairey Battle
Handley-Page Hampden
Lockheed Hudson
Westland Whirlwind
and perhaps it's time someone really did justice to the Hawker Hunter...
All the best
Rowan
Well I didn't list any of these as I thought of them as done but as they are all OOP I guess we can also put these back on the list. So with that I'd add these to my earlier list except the Battle and Hudson, not my cup of tea.
Oh one I forgot a Kamov Ka-27 in 1/48, please
On the bench...
Italeri A129 Mangusta
British Bulldog Spitfire theme build
Indiana, United States
Joined: January 13, 2009
KitMaker: 419 posts
AeroScale: 378 posts
Posted: Monday, August 26, 2013 - 08:13 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Rowan, Nice choices. Really would love to see a P-63 King Cobra.
Joel
I think there is a P-63 kit available (a couple perhaps) MPM springs to mind.
My wish list is long (much longer than initially posted). What I'd really like to see is more 'inter war period' aircraft.
... so I'd be thrilled if Meng decided to offer a 1/48 Airacuda!!!
Cheers,
Fred
Current Builds:
Hawk 75/Saetta: Club Med Campaign
Me410: FROG Campaign
Mystery Build (insert here)
Merlin
Senior Editor #017
United Kingdom
Joined: June 11, 2003
KitMaker: 17,582 posts
AeroScale: 12,795 posts
Posted: Monday, August 26, 2013 - 08:18 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I think there is a P-63 kit available (a couple perhaps) MPM springs to mind...
Cheers,
Fred
Hi Fred
But they're not
mainstream (I take it you meant the same with "mainline"?). I've got the MPM kit stashed away and it's going to be a right little piglet to build.
All the best
Rowan
BEWARE OF THE FEW...
As I grow older, I regret to say that a detestable habit of thinking seems to be getting a hold of me. - H. Rider Haggard
British Columbia, Canada
Joined: September 03, 2009
KitMaker: 6,965 posts
AeroScale: 6,247 posts
Posted: Monday, August 26, 2013 - 08:36 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I've got the MPM kit stashed away and it's going to be a right little piglet to build.
Better it than the Hi.Tech/FM kit...
When once you have tasted flight you will walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward.
For there you have been, and there you will always long to return.
-Leonardo Da Vinci
Illinois, United States
Joined: March 26, 2010
KitMaker: 19 posts
AeroScale: 18 posts
Posted: Monday, August 26, 2013 - 09:27 AM UTC
How about the Avro Manchester and B-32 Dominator - both 1:48 & 1:72
“Build a man a fire and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life." - Terry Pratchett
Indiana, United States
Joined: January 13, 2009
KitMaker: 419 posts
AeroScale: 378 posts
Posted: Monday, August 26, 2013 - 09:56 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text
I think there is a P-63 kit available (a couple perhaps) MPM springs to mind...
Cheers,
Fred
Hi Fred
But they're not mainstream (I take it you meant the same with "mainline"?). I've got the MPM kit stashed away and it's going to be a right little piglet to build.
All the best
Rowan
That's a great segue to a thread hijack. (assuming I can hijack my own thread).
What is a "mainstream production kit" anymore? In this age of CAD and CNC manufacturing it seems the game is changing quickly.
20 years ago "limited run" seemed synonymous with multi media kits, but even then Monogram was slipping in PE frets to give a little boost to their older kits. Today most premium kits have some multi media elements.
Is it the number of kits produced? I have no idea what the threshold of unit sales in the model world qualifies as a "blockbuster" (but I'd guess its fewer than most think).
For me, what constitutes "mainstream" has everything to do with the quality and engineering of the molds.
Meng, Trumpeter, Great Wall, et al have proven very quickly that they are in the same quality league as Hasegawa and Tamiya. Of course, for all I know, they are huge factories in their own right. I didn't mention Zvezda because I know they've been molding models of one type or another for years.
Cheers,
Fred
Current Builds:
Hawk 75/Saetta: Club Med Campaign
Me410: FROG Campaign
Mystery Build (insert here)
Noord-Holland, Netherlands
Joined: January 28, 2007
KitMaker: 1,945 posts
AeroScale: 388 posts
Posted: Monday, August 26, 2013 - 07:41 PM UTC
The Fokker G1 in 1/48 scale. That would be nice.
Only available 1/72 (MPM)
Jelger
On the workbench:
- Tamiya P-47D 1/48
- Eduard Mig21 1/144
British Columbia, Canada
Joined: September 03, 2009
KitMaker: 6,965 posts
AeroScale: 6,247 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 - 06:02 AM UTC
Quoted Text
What is a "mainstream production kit" anymore? In this age of CAD and CNC manufacturing it seems the game is changing quickly.
Ooh, I'll go along with your self-imposed thread hijacking. Nowadays "mainstream" has to do with production techniques (which also translates into volume of kits produced) more than with comparisons of the kit parts. Back in the ancient times when pattern makers walked uphill to work both ways and carved their masters out of rocks they picked up along the way, the only way to produce an injection-moulded model was with steel moulds, and production runs had to number in the tens of thousands in order to make enough money to pay for the mould. "Limited run" kits were usually done in someone's garage from moulds made of fibreglass or similar materials. Vac kits, resin kits, low-pressure injection kits and the like were all suited to runs of a couple hundred units, and even those small numbers were sufficient (most of the time) to cover the initial investment in production materials.
As production techniques get better and cheaper, the difference in the refinement of kit parts gets smaller and smaller, yet mainstream kits must still be produced in much larger volumes. That's the crucial difference.
When once you have tasted flight you will walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward.
For there you have been, and there you will always long to return.
-Leonardo Da Vinci
Wisconsin, United States
Joined: April 05, 2007
KitMaker: 2,023 posts
AeroScale: 81 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 - 06:37 AM UTC
I'm with Rowan on the N. American F82 Twin Mustang. Also, a Avro CF-100 Canuck and the Arrow. And last but not least a Romanian IAR 80. All in 1/48th scale.
On the bench :
A whole bunch of figures, Too many half built kits and a (gasp) wing thing
British Columbia, Canada
Joined: September 03, 2009
KitMaker: 6,965 posts
AeroScale: 6,247 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 - 06:58 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Also, a Avro CF-100 Canuck and the Arrow.
Those two were done by Hobbycraft in the '90s. They were not likely too widely available outside of Canada, and they could definitely benefit from modern moulding techniques, but they were mainstream kits back in the day
When once you have tasted flight you will walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward.
For there you have been, and there you will always long to return.
-Leonardo Da Vinci
Indiana, United States
Joined: January 13, 2009
KitMaker: 419 posts
AeroScale: 378 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 - 07:16 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Ooh, I'll go along with your self-imposed thread hijacking. Nowadays "mainstream" has to do with production techniques (which also translates into volume of kits produced) more than with comparisons of the kit parts. Back in the ancient times when pattern makers walked uphill to work both ways and carved their masters out of rocks they picked up along the way, the only way to produce an injection-moulded model was with steel moulds, and production runs had to number in the tens of thousands in order to make enough money to pay for the mould. "Limited run" kits were usually done in someone's garage from moulds made of fibreglass or similar materials. Vac kits, resin kits, low-pressure injection kits and the like were all suited to runs of a couple hundred units, and even those small numbers were sufficient (most of the time) to cover the initial investment in production materials.
As production techniques get better and cheaper, the difference in the refinement of kit parts gets smaller and smaller, yet mainstream kits must still be produced in much larger volumes. That's the crucial difference.
Yeah, My uncle was a pattern maker his whole working life. No doubt that creating tooling is soo much quicker now than in the days when masters were cut by hand.
I'm still interested in what the sales number is that makes a kit a "blockbuster". For that matter, I'd love to know how many units of a kit it takes a company like Eduard to sell before it reaches the 'break even' point on the investment in one of their offerings.
Cheers,
Fred
Current Builds:
Hawk 75/Saetta: Club Med Campaign
Me410: FROG Campaign
Mystery Build (insert here)
Merlin
Senior Editor #017
United Kingdom
Joined: June 11, 2003
KitMaker: 17,582 posts
AeroScale: 12,795 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 - 07:29 AM UTC
Hi Fred
I think Eduard are a classic example of a company that's grown firmly into the "mainstream" category (their early kits were anything but) - and MPM Production are steadily blurring the boundary with their recent output using a mix of metal and short-run moulds.
What counts as "short-run" styrene moulding these days (in the best cases) has improved beyond all recognition of what we accepted as par for the course ten or fifteen years ago...
All the best
Rowan
BEWARE OF THE FEW...
As I grow older, I regret to say that a detestable habit of thinking seems to be getting a hold of me. - H. Rider Haggard
Georgia, United States
Joined: October 05, 2010
KitMaker: 111 posts
AeroScale: 24 posts
Posted: Tuesday, August 27, 2013 - 07:35 AM UTC
I'll bite on "mainstream" - HIGH pressure injection molding is mainstream to me. This requires hardened tool grade steel (or similar hard metal) molds. The mold cutting process is less imporant, as there are a number of manufacturing processes that can be employed to "cut" the mold, but the bottom line is the high-pressure injection molding is what lends itself to a mainstream kit. You can tell detail differences from spark erosion vs. CNC, but the end result is the grade of mold material, and the injection process used.
Very new companies like GWH, Kinetic, Meng, Avante Guard, Kittyhawk and similar all do "mainstream" kits as they are high-pressure injection molded.
The alternative is LOW-pressure injection molding, where the molds are much softer, and the injection process is much less high-tech. The molds have a short life (maybe 5000 max) and then have to be replaced. This is what you see from companies like MPM, Special Hobby and similar Eastern European (Eduard being the notable exception). The details are softer, and the parts lack the fidelity that you see in high-pressure IM.
Whether other medias are included (photo-etch, resin, etc.) is immaterial. It all comes down to the grade of mold used.
The OLD rule of thumb was each mold cavity costs roughly $1000 to cut - so a 500 part kit would cost $500,000.
Assume an average retail starting point of $75, and that the company is selling them for perhaps 1/3 of that cost, their income on each kit is $25, and therefore, they'd have to sell 20,000 copies to break even.
Now, those are VERY rough numbers, but at least get you in the ballpark of what's required.
It's fair to argue that newer design and production techniques may have knocked that down somewhat. Also consider the practice of releasing multiple versions of the same kit.
With the newer design techniques and more modular kits, that spreads the cost of tooling over more releases.
More on some gaps that need to be filled later.
