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World War II
Discuss WWII and the era directly before and after the war from 1935-1949.
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Alternate P-51 Markings Suggestions
Bushioka
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Oregon, United States
Joined: January 13, 2014
KitMaker: 107 posts
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Posted: Thursday, January 16, 2014 - 01:58 AM UTC
Even though my F-84G is getting underway, I found something rather interesting while I was out getting the last bit of paint for it:



Another Tamiya quarter-scale fighter, snatched up at a second-hand store for around $8.50 US! It's still in the original plastic bagging and everything. This is my next project already, and since I'm wont to do so I may end up using alternate decals.

So I thought I'd open it up and see if anyone had recommendations on alternate markings for this Mustang? The more odd or peculiar, the more interesting it is but any suggestions about rarely seen markings for this fighter are welcome. Currently I have WW II Luftwaffe and Red Air Force markings in my decal stash.
PeeJay74
#363
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Pennsylvania, United States
Joined: January 08, 2014
KitMaker: 425 posts
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Posted: Thursday, January 16, 2014 - 02:49 AM UTC
The options for a B/C are a bit more limited than a D/K. I've seen the Luftwaffe scheme done quite a bit, and occasionally Chinese Nationalist or Japanese markings. I don't think I have ever seen a Red Air Force P-51B, sounds interesting.

RAF Mustangs in camo look sharp, but I assume you do not want to use Tamiya's ever so thin decals?
Joel_W
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
AUTOMODELER
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New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
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Posted: Thursday, January 16, 2014 - 03:42 AM UTC
Martyn, The Tamiya P-51B/C is an excellent kit.

As far as alternate markings are concerned, the easiest way to go about it is to checkout the decal selections at some major online retailers like; Sprue Brothers, The Squadron Shop, & Brookhurst Hobbies to name a few. Between them you should be able to find just about all the currently available decals options.
Joel
chrism
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United States
Joined: January 05, 2012
KitMaker: 160 posts
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Posted: Thursday, January 16, 2014 - 03:55 AM UTC
A quick visit to wings palette website may provide some inspiration!
J8kob_F
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Stockholm, Sweden
Joined: October 24, 2012
KitMaker: 202 posts
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Posted: Thursday, January 16, 2014 - 09:29 AM UTC
You can do a swedish one. There was only one p-51B used by SWAF so i would say it qualifies for being unique.There are decals from a swedish company called RB Decals which are great. From the begining it was painted in olive drab (it made an emergency landing in sweden in may 1944) and it was later striped and painted in the same way as other swedish p-51s. To top picture in the decal instructions is how it looked before it was given swedish markings.




Jakob
MrMtnMauler
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Washington, United States
Joined: January 15, 2011
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Posted: Thursday, January 16, 2014 - 12:14 PM UTC
Hi Martyn,
I have completed this kit recently and was very pleased with Tamiya and their markings. I chose what I believe are No. 112 Squadron markings when the unit was stationed in Italy. It is possible I am wrong about the squadron as the RAAF was also flying these "GA" machines during the conflict. I was sttisfied with Tamiya's decals and felt that with a bit of care they were acceptable. However, might I suggest Valiant Wings publication No. 6 which focuses on early Mustangs. There are numerous different markings presented that could be a source of inspiration. Perhaps Mal could gin up some nice stencils for you. Just a suggestion. I hope this is helpful. Take care.
Jim
raypalmer
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Ontario, Canada
Joined: March 29, 2010
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Posted: Thursday, January 16, 2014 - 02:03 PM UTC
Fortuitously, this just popped up.
jowady
Joined: June 12, 2006
KitMaker: 1,027 posts
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Posted: Thursday, January 16, 2014 - 03:00 PM UTC
The "dazzle" camo is on a P51 not a "B". The Japanese captured a "C" in China. The only difference between a "B" and a "C" is the manufacturing facility. AFAIK no Bs or Cs were sent to the USSR. There was a Polish squadron in the RAF that flew them. Most foreign use of the Mustang other than British was limited to the D/K models.
Bushioka
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Oregon, United States
Joined: January 13, 2014
KitMaker: 107 posts
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Posted: Thursday, January 16, 2014 - 10:54 PM UTC
Thanks for all the tips and suggestions. I actually have built a Swedish P-51 in the past, but I believe it was a D not a B. That could make a Swedish one interesting. Though according to Wings Palette there's a P-51 sent to the USSR from Britain in 1942, so if I used Red Air Force markings it'd be more of a 'What if?' thing. Not that I'm averse to the idea.

On that note, what do people think of maybe an Italian P-51B as a 'What if?' project? I found several basic Italian national markings decal sheets that are very reasonably priced whilst searching.
MichaelSatin
Staff MemberCampaigns Administrator
AEROSCALE
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Colorado, United States
Joined: January 19, 2008
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Posted: Friday, January 17, 2014 - 04:57 AM UTC
LF Models do a sheet in Swiss markings. Kinda pricey, but interesting. It may be less if you find them somewhere else rather than their website. Peddinghaus seems to have done some too. Frankly those markings don't look too difficult to just paint, and they would be different.

However you go, it's a great kit!

Michael
jowady
Joined: June 12, 2006
KitMaker: 1,027 posts
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Posted: Friday, January 17, 2014 - 06:30 PM UTC
If the British sent a P51 to the USSR in 1942 it would not have been a P51B/Mustang III. In 1942 the RAF and USAAF were both experimenting with adding the Merlin engine to the P51 airframe and it was a highly secret project. The British Mustang project was labelled the Mustang X and marked with a "G" which meant that it was to be under guard at all times. So if you want to stick with historical accuracy the aircraft sent to the USSR would have been an Allison engine version. OTOH if that's not a concern then you can obviously do one however you want.
Antoni
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England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: June 03, 2006
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Posted: Sunday, January 19, 2014 - 08:41 AM UTC
A batch of Mustang Is was sent to the Soviet Union by Britain from the RAF inventory. Several sources give the number as ten whilst others put the number as four stating the serials as AG348, AG352, AG353 and AG354. The first two were forwarded for shipment to the USSR on the 16th December 1941, the last from this batch arrived on the 14th May 1942. Some sources identify them as Mustang Mk Ia but the Mustang tested at NII VVS had the armament of a Mk I and is identified as such in documents. In the USSR the Mustang was frequently referred to as the NA-73, especially in technical studies prepared by TsAGI.

AG348 was transferred to NII VSS for testing which was carried out by test pilot Vladimir Ye. Golofastov in October 1942. The unfavourable comparison with other fighter types, both Soviet and foreign, used by the Soviet Air Force prompted the Air Force command to use the Mustangs mainly at pilot training centres such as the 6th ZAB at Ivanovo. In the summer of 1942 five Mustangs were used for training the pilots of the 1st Ferry Air Division.

After testing by NII VVS three Mustangs were evaluated in combat in the 3rd Air Army on the Kalinin front in the autumn of 1942. Two were assigned to the 5th GvIAP of that Air Army and flown by the regiment's CO V. A. Zaitsev and V. I. Popkov as well as pilot Onufriyenko. The fighter was disliked by the pilots for its sluggishness. No operational sorties were flown during the evaluation which did not last very long as the Mustangs had to be withdrawn after suffering damage to their propellers.

One Mustang formed part of the exhibition of Soviet, Allied and captured German aircraft which had been set up at TsAGI's BNT. One other Mustang was transferred to the training regiment of the VVIA and flown there until at least 1946, after which it served as an instructional airframe. Neither of the two aircraft survive.

As the war progressed Soviet engineers and pilots had a chance to become acquainted with the later types of Mustang. Several Mustangs that suffered damage during operation Frantic, the shuttle bombing raids by USAAF bombers with a refuelling stop at Poltava in the Ukraine, in the summer of 1944, were left behind. They were restored to flying condition by Russian technical personnel as were several Mustangs that had force landed in Eastern Europe and salvaged by advancing Soviet troops. Fourteen Mustangs of various type were located by May 1945. Later several P-51Ds were restored to flying condition and ferried to Kratovo near Moscow where LII had its premises at the time and were subjected to a limited amount of flight testing.

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After the Air Ministry had approved the installation of a Merlin engine five Mustang Mk Is (AM121, AL963, AL975, AM203, and AM208) were flown to Hucknall for conversion to Mustang Xs. The first machine AL975/G flew on 13th October 1942 piloted by RR's chief test pilot Capt R T 'Ronnie' Shepherd. This had a gross weight of 9,065lb with a Merlin 65 driving a four-bladed propeller. The was a noticeable difference in profile of The Mustang Xs as small, beard radiator ducts of varying shape were fitted in addition to the standard ventral duct. On its initial flight AL975/G reached a speed of 376 mph.

Despite the initial suggestion to install a Merlin 61, all five Mustang Xs were fitted with Merlin 65s. When the second conversion, AM208, flew on 13th November 1942, its main radiator front flap was fixed permanently and sealed, as was it was on the remaining Mk Xs next converted. Considered as the prototype Mk X, AL975/G was designed to accept the Merlin 61 with its SU carburettor and resulting bulged lower cowling, but in the event , the Merlin 65 which did not have the SU type fitted , was installed. Of the other three machines, AM203 flew for the first time as a Mk X on 13th December, piloted by Ronnie Shepherd, and tested a high-speed gloss finish to compare the results against a standard matt finish. There was no variation in performance and it was concluded that the Mustang's smoothness and aerodynamic cleanness could not be improved upon.

Mk X AL963 flew into Hucknall on 26th June 1942 for performance ad handling trials before conversion from Allison to Merlin 65. it went to ADFU on service trials, returned to Hucknall, had a dorsal fin fitted, returned to Duxford for short period and then returned to Hucknall on a permanent basis where it spent most of its time on SU fuel injection pump trials.

The fifth Mk X, AM121, despite being first at Hucknall for conversion, was the last to undergo modification. Instead it was decided to retain the original configuration and study drag problems with the cooling system. Eventually this aircraft was fitted with a Merlin 65, but with no actual development flying planned, it too went to ADFU for service trials. It was then loaned to the USAAF 8th Fighter Command at Bovington, returned to Hucknall to have a broad chord fin incorporated and then flew to Rotol at Staverton, Glos, for it to evaluate a Rotoloid coating for propeller blades. After returning to Hucknall, AM121 was sent to spend the rest of its career with the USAAF 8th Fighter command Air Technical Section at Bovington.

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