I have to say that I really liked the 'nightfire' build. So much so, that I decided to go with an idea I picked up here on Aeroscale. There is a campaign called “Then and Now”. While I was reading a article about the Seafire Mk 47. The last of the breed. I realized it would be kinda cool to build the first and the last version of the Spitfire family. Jut to see how much changed. And with the spitfire campaign still running at 'modelbrouwers' it was the obvious choice for my next project.

So here we go. The spitfire Mk 1 vs. The seafire Mk. 47. The first and the last of the breed.








Before I get going though. I thought it would be nice to introduce myself a bit.



I am Cliff. 43 years old. From the Netherlands. Always interested in aircraft. Especially the 1930-1950 props era. As I kid I build a couple of models. Which ended up beeing devastated in the toy box. And since about 4 years i'm back modelling. But beeing self-employed in the same period meant I made slow progress on builds. And kinda got stuck on a mediocre level because of it. By now I have more time on my hands. So the goal for this build is mostly to get my skills up. I want to achieve a nice clean build. With no Putty, sanding, glue or airbrush/paint mistakes.
I'm gonna try to build the kits as a good representative of the type. Not as an exact copy of a single version. But as I said. The main focus will be on the build-technical part.
I have no problems with constructive feedback, because they only will make me better. So feel free to question my work and give comments. I will enjoy reading them.

Now i'm lousy at technical stuff. It has always been about the esthetics for me. So i'm not gonna write an in depth technical analyses of the differences between the two types.

I'm just gonna build the two alongside each other. And tell what I find on differences along the way. That's the main reason i'm doing the build anyway. To be able to compare them as a non-technical nerd.

The Mk 1 i'm gonna build using the new airfix tooling.



So what do we get?



A nice set of sprues. A really clean mold. Nice details. Although i'm not convinced about the depth of the panel lines. They seem a bit deep for my taste. But I will see what the paint job will bring. (allthough i'm pretty sure i don't need a preshade on tis one..)







Then we have the decals.



With the colorschemes in the booklet printed in color. Nice touch.



This is the version I wanna build



All in all I like the way the booklet is set up. Diagrams are good. And they contain more info then i'm used to from older revell and Airfix booklets.





So all in all looking forward to this one...

The second Kit is gonna be the Mk.47 Seafire.




a spitfire version adjusted for deck landing



which didn't always work...





Allthough it makes for cool pictures. But I get distracted. Here is the kit i'm gonna use for the Mk 47



When you open that box a lot of plastic welcomes you..



Enough for me to have had a second look in the booklet. How many parts does this kit actually need??



Well when you look a bit closer, you will find that you only need half the parts..The rest is welcome filling for the spare part box.



Still it has a lot of detail and options to work with...









Something simple as a cockpit suddenly becomes a kit on it's own. And that in 1/72. Fun.



Again a good booklet. Bit bigger then the Revell or Airfix... Obviously..



the decals.



In this case three versions. The box art...



Or two more conventional color schemes. The 151/BR of the RNVR squadron, 1952 Bramcote. Or the 178/P., on HSM Triumph, Korea 1950. And that's the version I wanna build



Again a kit i'm looking forward too to build. A bit more of a challenge. But nothing seriously dramatic.

Good. The planes are introduced. First up..The office. I'm already working on those. So expect an update somewhere during the next 24 hours.

Cliff,
Welcome once again to Aeroscale, with a nice personal intro. Much appreciated.

Looking forward to your duel build and comparison. While I don't build 1/72 aircraft as a general rule, your mention of the recessed panel lines on the Airfix kit, does indeed look out of scale and more like trenches, especially compared to the Special Hobbies offering.

So let the fun begin. I'll be following along for the ride.
Joel

You will find that the Airfix Mk I/II requires no filler. If there are any gaps between the various bulges they can be filled with some dilute white glue. The canopy is a very tight fit but watch out as the instrument panel can interfere with it. (Ask me how I know.) Suggest you tape the the fuselage halves together and insert the canopy and then glue the instrument panel in place. It might save you an evening's scraping and filing.

If you want to make a Mk II you will have the parts and decals left over so can save a few pennies and buy a Mk I kit. Buy another Mk I kit and you can use the leftover oil cooler to make a MK Va.

Airfix decals are OK now but perhaps a little thick. May need to use several applications of setting solution over the bumps and push them down into the trenches with a cocktail stick. Stencils might silver a little but not as bad as some decals. Place them on a drop of Future/Klear, it will stop that happening.

There are a few tweaks you can make for an early Mk I.

Cut off the reflector glass and replace it with a ring sight.





The bead sight was just in front of the panel.





Flash eliminators for the guns can be made from stretched plastic tube.





No armoured cover over the glycol tank. You could simulate that by scribing and extra panel line.

You need to make a two-prong pitot tube. Some good photos of one here, at the bottom:

http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?129176-Spitfire-Forked-Pitot

Thanks Antoni. A lot of usefull info. I want to make the Mk 1. Actually the version with the white and black underside. I also want to go for the flat canopy and the two blade prop. So really go back to the origins of it.

I'm gonna look into your additions on the Mk 1. Some things i have to do resurge on to really understand what you are showing me. But that's only gonna add to the fun of the build.

...And we are off. De build started this weekend. With sorting out a loooot of reference material.



Everything on the Mk 1 is on the left. The Mk 47 is on the right. I wonder which type is more popular..
Why all the reference material? Well. Antoni very kindly gave me a lot of improvement points for the early Mk 1 version. I had a lot of fun researching what he actually meant. Like the ringed sight..



Which was later replaced by the reflector sight..(somewhere in 1939 if i' m not mistaken Antoni? )



'But before i committed myself with a saw. I wanted to be sure the sight would be fitting with the colorscheme. As in timewise..Let's see what Airfix says...



Duxford 1938. No problem there. But i did have an odd feeling with the markings there. Were they at the right spot? Soon enough i found the paint scheme of AZ model..



And that looked a lot more like the one i found in Flypast. An article about RAF markings...



An article that also told me those markings were there from May to October 39!
Hmmm...what did Antoni say about reference material in magazines..In my spitfire nightfighter blog... Now i wanted Photographic proof. And i found that in a Flugzeug classic magazine..



But where do they put the time of the paint scheme..??



1940!...Yeah right! Antoni. Your point is now clearly been taken. Thanks. Luckily airfix took the paint scheme of the 19th squadron. And because they were the first active squadron with the spitfire. There are plenty of pictures to be found.

OK research over. Time to build. First off i wanted to look at the general fit. Starting with the Airfix Mk 1:



Well done Airfix. But there was this warning about the Canopy..





Right..or actually wrong...But luckely there is a nice bit of plastic sticking out in front of the windshield..



So sanding that back a bit..And making the fuselage gap a bit straighter..



Solved the first problem real quick. (I'm still keeping an eye out when i place it later on)



Then it was the special hobby Mk 47's turn...





That's gonna be a bit more of a headache
..Oh and have a look at the panel lines..When i use the guiding pins..



Been there, done that. So those were removed straight away. To have some form of guidance when i put the tw halves together later, i added some styreen as well..



Do i really need that this time? Probably not. But as i said in the beginning. These kits are all about learning the tricks of the trade. And now i have a chance to try this out. With not that much fuss if it goes wrong. Knowledge i definitly need when i put this one together in the future..



Or even worse..this one....



But i'm getting ahead of myself again. I was building two spitfires. So it's back to the office.
First off..the Airfix mk 1 again..



finally a airfix pilot that doesn't look like mister Blobby..




The office comes in 4 simple parts. Nicely molded. And very cleverly put together. So in no time at all..





You have an office....

The Mk 47 next..Bit more parts..





That asked for a bit more cleaning. (read flash) But actually it's all quite simple and straightforward..
So what is the nicer looking one..Well you judge yourself. Light grey is Airfix ..





In the meantime i'll be drilling some holes...





With the Mk 1 i had to cut a nice part of the sight away. To make room for the Ringed sight.



(I also removed the triangle part of the Mk 47. Which will be replaced with a clear version later on. But i didn't think that was worth a picture.)
And then the problem was..How to make a ring sight. I played a bit with my drill and some different styreen bits..



Which didn't work at all..So in the end i realized i had to think more simple. Didn't i have some left over PE stuff...?







Presto. A ringed sight. And within a nice 2 hours of hobby time. You end up with a pile of parts..ready for paint.





First black primer again..




Than Vallejo interior green..

Airfix Mk 1:


Special hobby Mk 47":


Question is, does that black underlayer make a difference in effect. Well i forgot it on this small segment..



And here it is doing it's magic......



Yep..I'm keeping that method. Then i diluted the interior green with some white and sprayed the parts high up in the cockpit. Aiming from a higher point. A bit on an angle. After that i highlighted some raised panel lines a bit more. Dry brushing them with an even lighter mixture.



The Mk 47 is gonna be weathered a lot more. So these parts only got the first sprayed highlight



The other higher office parts also got the "light"treatment



The next picture is a bit underexposed. So you can see what i was trying to do. I saw a lot of tank builds, in a quality model magazine,, where they use a modulation technique. Using different shades of the same color to recreate light and shadow. And i really love the effect of that. So i tried to translate that technique here. Giving the upper part of the cockpit the impression of (sun) light. While the lower parts are in the shadow.



Up till now it looks ok. I have to see how it all looks when it comes together in the cockpit, before i will know if this is a technique i'll use again next time. Or that i made a fool of myself. But i think i'm ok.
The base color is now done and hardening out. Tomorrow i'll go for the other colors. Painting all the fiddly bits.

So you found that the canopy is a very tight fit. Just be careful when you install the instrument panel a it can interfere with the windscreen of the canopy. Also the join along the top of the nose seems difficult to deal with. Everything looks perfectly flat until you out a coat on and then when it has dried is shows through as a faint shadow like a pencil line.

Most of the photos of early 19 Squadron Spitfires were taken at a press day at Duxford 4th May 1939. They have the ring and bead sights, flash eliminators and no armoured windscreens. Most have bulged canopies but 'C' has the flat type.



This is the only photograph of a 'T' I can find and looks like it was taken the same time as the others. It can be seen the the yellow surround of the fuselage roundel has been painted over.

Airfix give a specific time of August 1938 but I do not know what they have used as a reference so I cannot say how much of the scheme might be speculation. The most odd thing is that only one wing has a roundel. I do not think this is something that anyone would invent. I have seen a photograph of a Spitfire with such a peculiarity but I cannot find it now. I think the reason given was that it was in the process of being repainted. I am not convinced. Camouflage and markings were not fully decided upon until a meeting held after the Munich crises. It is obvious that during the development and trials of camouflage before Munich there was the idea to only have only one wing with a roundel. Perhaps that is why the Spitfire only had a roundel on one wing.





The first experiments in camouflage were carried out in Malta prompted by Italy's invasion of Abyssinia. It almost looks like someone had an obsession with roundels.

I found that same picture of the T, Antoni. Might be a nice touch to put it there. The one roundel thing also caught my eye. I am not as much in the subject matter as you are. I'm just starting to scratch the survice on it actually. But i couldn't find any picture of it. At all.

I'm strongly leaning towards leaving it out.

I also found some pictures where you can see something sticking out were the gund are. But nothing that i can really see what it looks like. Am i right in noticing that only the two other guns on each side had them?
And do you by any chance have a picture or a drawing to show how it looks like? A link would do nicely too off course.

Thanks in advance.

Cliff,
I really don't like to get into shades of colors one way or the other, as graphic cards do play havoc with what one sees online. My only question is the choice Vallejo Interior Green. The British RAF Interior Green is a bluish Green when compared to the American Interior Green. I found that the Model Master RAF Interior Green to be very close to online resources.

Priming with black really helps with creating shadows and depth, but just like with pre-shading, too much or too thick over coats, negates the effect. Believe me I know all to well how to screw it up. Lighter shades of the same color applied across the tops of the surface, really helps to add depth. Just keep in mind that most of what you're creating in the cockpits won't be seen or hardly seen once the fuselage halves are close up. Armor has a ton of nooks and crannies that the modulation techniques works extremely well with.

I much prefer the special Hobbies cockpit over the Airfix cockpit for being closer to fidelity of scale. The Airfix seat looks so chunky and out of proportion compared to the Special Hobby offering.

Great start. Looking forward to your next update.
Joel

You are right on the color Joel. I picked the wrong one. The lighting in my LHS is so crappy that i didn't discover it there. But i also didnt check it when i started spraying.
This time i'll leave it. But next time i have to pay a more attention.

I know most of it won't be seen. Especially in the Airfix. Cause that only has the closed canopy option. The Special hobby kit has an open door/ open canopy option. And that i'm gonna take. Too show as much of my work as possible.
In the end i just love fiddling around with those small bits. So it;s a part of the build i always look forward to doing. :-) even if you only have the pictures afterwards.

The other thing to watch for in the interiors is that late RN Spitfires were black above the level of the door sill, and green below. Here's a good picture.

Thanks Jess. I was already loking into it. But there is so little pictures of later cockpits to be found. So i still wasn't sure.

Would it be safe to conclude form the two tone thing, that they came out of the factory in interior green..And then were painted black while in service?

I believe that they were specified that way from the Factory.

Well that's something i have to get into later in the week. Today i concentrated on the Mk. 1 Cockpit



(Doesn't this look dangerously much like i'm doing my nails..)





Almost forgot the Safety belts....



sidewall done a bit. Not much, because there is not that much you'll see from them. I did try giving the knobs a better color by first applying some white..And then the yellow or red. Thanks Jessie. Looks a lot better like that. Also removing a bit of excess plastic here..Not enough it turned out later..



The dash was a decal this time..Not my thing. It just looks fake..



So i toned it down with a dark grey wash and some mat paint.



And then everything comes together..







extra fixing point for the safety belts..





And the spit was ready to close up..





And then the moment we all are gonna see if Joel was right. What do you see of all that work??



Ahmmmm...Well at least i have the pictures as proof.... Although..Maybe...



With a different Canopy it could really work. Oh well. I had fun doing t. And i had a lot of practise with new techniques on a spot were it doesn't matter if it goes wrong..

Oh talking about going wrong. See that nice split at the edge of the dash. Between the two fuselages.



Well i somehow didn't fit the cockpit in as it should. And that gap also translated in the fuselage beeïng a bit to wide at the belly side.



Which meant i needed a quite some sanding and a lot of convincing before the wings would attach nicely.
I'm sure it's a fault of mine, not Airfix. Cause i saw no mention of it up till now. And it fitted nicely when i pretested it. So we keep on modelling...And learning..

Cliff, a really excellent thread, I am learning a lot and I really like the build the 1st and last concept. Keep us informed of the progress.

Wartime cockpit green was a grey-green, not blue-green, and was specified as such by the Air Ministry.
The "two-tone" cockpit originated with the Seafire 15/17 (some of the former had a bubble canopy,) because of reflections in the cockpit. However, if you get hold of a copy of the Pilot's Notes, for the Seafire 47, you'll find that it was all-black; it's possible that the seat was also black, because, by then, Seafires were using metal, not plastic, seats.
Edgar

After Joels message on the color i got out a humbrol colorchart and saw what he meant.
If you compair the appearance of the Vallejo interior green with Humbrol cockpit green. You do see that the us version has a yellowish/brownisch shade to it. While the british color has a blue-ish appearance. It's just something i have to pay more attention too next time.

Thanks by the way Edgar, for your info on the Mk 47. we are going New sealand stile then with the cockpit. All black.

Oh and Joel. I read your advice you posted on the Nigtfighter build. I really appriciate the time you put into that. and will take it into this build. Most importantly i have to slow down. After a long period of working 6 days a week i finally have a couple of weeks of free time. And i want to use that a bit too much. Bit to eager. You can see it in the build here up to now. The color switch. The problems with the wingroots. that is pure sloppyness.

Stooge. thanks for the compliments. Off course i'll keep the thread up. It's to much fun not too..

There was no colour RAF Interior Green, that is a fabrication of paint companies etc. The correct/official name is Grey Green or Aircraft Grey Green. Vallejo Model Air is the US colour ANA 611 Interior Green. Vallejo does not seem to have Aircraft Grey Green in its range though it is possible that they may have something very similar. They do have a Grey Green, Model Air 71055 Model Color 866/Rack No 165 (don't you just love their numbering system?). However this seems to actually be a dark grey similar to Dark Sea Grey or Engine Grey.

The gap between the fuselage halves under the windscreen is caused by the instrument panel. Filing or shaving the edges helps but it is difficult to eradicate completely.

The method I have adopted for dealing with the wings is to first join the upper and lower parts and when completely dry insert the fuselage. It is a tight squeeze but that helps. I then align the underneath of the wing properly with the forward and rear fuselage and glue those joins. Once that has dried I glue the edges of the upper wings to the fuselage by feeding in some Humbrol Liquid Polly with a fine brush.

The flash eliminators are just the typical slightly conical muzzles that you see on machine guns. The inner two do not protrude past the wing leading edge. Number three sticks out quite a bit and number four just slightly.

It seems that there were two 'T's. The Airfix 'T' is supposedly K9794. This met with some kind of landing accident at Digby 10/1/39 and SOC 18/4/39. The second 'T' was possibly K9824 or K9826.





I found two photographs of 19 Squadron in formation. Some have no roundels on the wings, some one and some two. None of them are 'T' but it could be one of the Spitfires in the background.



Another photo of 'T' which looks like it may have been taken at the same time. So there may well be a photo somewhere that shows 'T' with only one roundel.

Antoni,
I think that model paint companies just designated the Gray/Green interior color as RAF Interior Green to make it easier for modelers to choice the proper color from their paint line. I can attest to that 1st hand. Also a Google search or two narrowed down the correct color choice for me.

Cliff,
It's too late now, but from my limited research, the seats were painted Russet with a black leather seat back. The metal armor behind the seat was RAF interior Green for lack of a proper name.

Thank you for your most kind words about what I posted on your nightfighter blog. Learning how to properly apply a coat of paint with an air brush takes practice. I would also suggest that you watch some of the excellent videos on You Tube.
Joel

If we're dividing rabbits, the seats were not painted. The reddish-brown is the colour of the bare plastic material they were made of.

Jessica,
I thought so, but wasn't sure. But for modeling purposes, the seats need to be painted a Russet color.
Joel

Hmmm..I have to pick up my game i bit i see. And i mean that in a good way. Taht's the reason i joined this forum. For feedback you can work with. Thanks all.

No i do not love the vallejo colorcode. I spent at least 30 minutes with a humbroll colorcard and some number translations to Vallejo and Gunze to try and get some paint...And still taking some wrong colors it seems. Vallejo doens't have RaF interior green ready made. But on the other hand..i doubt if they have russian interior..or french..or dutch..So in the end it's another thing i wanna learn. Mix my own colors.

As with the chair. a well there are so many possibillitys ..i just picked one..





Although..Now surfing the internet, i suddenly realise the green chair version is only found in the restorated magazine versions..darn. As i said. I have to pick up my game a bit.

Many of us, including yours truly, have used a restored version as a reference, only to find that they wrong or incorrect to the version they were duplicating. Be very selective on whose restoration you use, if indeed you do use one.

Your seat is a perfect example. Picture #2 is correct, while picture #1 is completely wrong.

Joel

The wartime's colour was officially titled "Cockpit Grey-Green," and its vocabulary no. was 33B/309; originally it was in the DTD 308 colour range, which was absorbed into DTD 83A mid-war.
If you can find an original "proper" (pre-Hornby) colour chip for "90," in the Humbrol range, it matches the wartime Supermarine paint exactly; why Airfix/Humbrol called it "beige green" is a lasting mystery. Being unaware of this, Hornby have changed the formula for 90, and it's now a match for Sky.
Aircraft Grey Green is a post-war British Standards colour, which matches the paint used on the exteriors of Irish Seafires, and had no wartime equivalent.


The pre-war flash eliminators were removable, but were thought necessary for night operations; at the outbreak of war, a new, faster-firing Browning (without eliminators) was brought into use, which is why the ends of the barrels disappeared inside the wing.
Edgar

Nice idea for a dual-build.

Your grey-green seat is perfectly correct for an early Spitfire. The Red-brown Synthetic Resin Bonded Paper (SRBP) seat was only introduced from May 1940. Before that they were grey-green- or black-painted metal. Black might only have been for really early ones.

See:http://www.britmodeller.com/forums/index.php?/topic/234926784-spitfire-seat-colours/

As for the leather padding on the back, I don't know if it was always black, or whether brown is also possible.

Actually, picture #1 is utterly correct. It belongs to a Spitfire V which was restored over a period of 30 years in New Zealand and is considered to be the most accurate restoration ever attempted. You can find more of it
here. For everything Spitfire, visit The Spitfire Site.

The bulges in the seat pan and left side were introduced to accommodate the inflation bottle of the pilot's rubber dingy which was part of his seat-pack. Mk I and II Spitfire seats didn't have them.