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World War II
Discuss WWII and the era directly before and after the war from 1935-1949.
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Condor Legion - What color to use?
SuperSandaas
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Sør-Trøndelag, Norway
Joined: October 23, 2012
KitMaker: 189 posts
AeroScale: 142 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 30, 2014 - 06:36 AM UTC
Hi! I'm building a Fi156A in the scheme of 46-1 of Stab./Jagdgruppe 88 of the Condor Legion. (using the Plastyk 1:72 kit, previously released by Panther)

Now the all-important question is what color to use? The undersides was as far as I can tell, and most references agree, RLM65 (Blue). But Plastyks instructions specifies RLM71, which obviously must be wrong (much to dark, and as far as I know the 70's series of paints wasn't introduced before 1938 when they developed primerless paints)

This page suggest the color was a much darker green than previously suggested, based on (Mombeek & al. 1999) (closer to RLM70)and that the seemingly light color was partly a result of early cheap photographic film used in most pictures from the period (where some colors look lighter or darker than in true greyscale), and partly the bleaching effect from the Spanish sun.

From the page: "Scans of profiles of the same aircraft from (Top to bottom) Flying colours (1981), A mid-1990's decal sheet and Mombeek et al. (1999)."

Other sources suggest RLM01 (silver) RLM02, RLM03 (silver grey), Lufthansa Grey or RLM63 which noone seems to agree on what really looked like.

I'd love any input from the knowledgeable users of this forum!
One additional profile from Wings Palette (which looks close to RLM02):
Antoni
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England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: June 03, 2006
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Posted: Sunday, March 30, 2014 - 09:07 AM UTC
According to Fieseler Fi 156 Storch 1938 -1946, Dariusz Karnas, MMP Books, they were RLM 63 upper surfaces with light grey undersurfaces. The grey is not specified.

Prototypes and the first production batch (1937 - 38) were painted in two schemes.

Prototypes, civilian and export machines RLM 01 Silber. Luftwaffe RLM 02 Grau.
SuperSandaas
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Sør-Trøndelag, Norway
Joined: October 23, 2012
KitMaker: 189 posts
AeroScale: 142 posts
Posted: Sunday, March 30, 2014 - 09:46 AM UTC
Grey undersides? Strange, I though all Luftwaffe-machines by 1938 was delivered with RLM65 undersides (unless they were still in primer). I haven't run across the mention of a grey shade used solely on the underside. (Though some claim RLM02 or RLM63 all over.

As far as I can tell RLM63 was more or less the same shade as RLM02, possibly just a tiny bit greyer.(The main difference being not in pigment, but in that the former was a formula developed for external use.)

I know some Condor-machines was delivered in semi-civilan livery, like some He70's in silver with black trim a'la Lufthansa, so it could be they delivered planes just in primer as well, I suppose.

I think I'll start off with a thin coat of RLM02 and see what it looks like, and then possibly mix in some slate grey or dark green for the second coat, and stick with blue undersides.
Antoni
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England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
Joined: June 03, 2006
KitMaker: 574 posts
AeroScale: 573 posts
Posted: Monday, March 31, 2014 - 01:03 AM UTC
The first Fi 156A-1s arrived in Spain towards the end of the Spanish Civil War for combat evaluation by the Condor Legion. When hostilities ceased they were handed over to Spain. The 70/71/65 scheme was introduced at the end of 1938 beginning of 1939 so RLM 65 may be stretching things. Whatever the colours there were definitely two.



The profiles in the book show a light olive green for the RLM 63. It seems that there were two RLM 63s: 63v.1, GRÜNGRAU ( green-grey) and 63v.2, LICHTGRAU ( light grey). You have to ask an expert on German colours to explain that.

In 1939-40 Spain purchased 17 C-1 Storchs but little is known about them.
DougN1
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Georgia, United States
Joined: August 08, 2011
KitMaker: 410 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, April 01, 2014 - 04:48 AM UTC
Eirik,

Sounds like you have a good handle on the colors. I would suggest possibly using RLM62 (olive green) for the uppers.

This is the color Merrick's latest research shows for the later shipments of 109's (some D and all E's) to the Legion Condor. Here are a couple photos of my 1/32 Eduard 109E-1 in RLM 62/65:






Doug
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