Hey all, does anyone know what a good scale "Red" colour would be for the new Meng 1/32 scale Me-163 Komet...?
I have read that it should basically be RLM02, but I need a paint manufacturer's name if anyone has that info.
Cheers
World War II
Discuss WWII and the era directly before and after the war from 1935-1949.
Discuss WWII and the era directly before and after the war from 1935-1949.
Hosted by Rowan Baylis
The "Red" Komet
thehermit
Joined: August 27, 2007
KitMaker: 277 posts
AeroScale: 64 posts
Posted: Thursday, April 17, 2014 - 02:59 PM UTC
Jessie_C
Joined: September 03, 2009
KitMaker: 6,965 posts
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Posted: Thursday, April 17, 2014 - 03:20 PM UTC
RLM02 is that particular greenish grey used for interiors. RLM's red is 23. If you have access to Testors Model Master, they have RLM 23 pre-mixed.
stonar
Joined: August 15, 2008
KitMaker: 337 posts
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Posted: Monday, April 21, 2014 - 04:05 AM UTC
Spate described the aircraft as 'tomato red' which is a pretty good description of RLM 23.
There are no other red lacquers in the RLM range that could be described this way and I doubt that a valuable prototype like V41 would have been finished in an unofficial paint.
The only fly in the ointment is that RLM 23 was generally used for markings and a lot was needed to paint an Me 163 but what are the alternatives ?
Steve
There are no other red lacquers in the RLM range that could be described this way and I doubt that a valuable prototype like V41 would have been finished in an unofficial paint.
The only fly in the ointment is that RLM 23 was generally used for markings and a lot was needed to paint an Me 163 but what are the alternatives ?
Steve
stooge
Joined: June 20, 2013
KitMaker: 210 posts
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Posted: Monday, April 21, 2014 - 08:26 AM UTC
One report said it came red from the factory and another it was painted by on the field. I think a Spate says the latter, I'm away from my library to look up the other reporter.
Merlin
Senior Editor
#017
Joined: June 11, 2003
KitMaker: 17,582 posts
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Posted: Monday, April 21, 2014 - 08:55 AM UTC
Quoted Text
The only fly in the ointment is that RLM 23 was generally used for markings and a lot was needed to paint an Me 163 but what are the alternatives ?Steve
Hi there
RLM 23 is the paint usually quoted for painting the undersides of JV 44's Platzschutzstaffel Fw 190D-9s, so the quantity needed for a single Me 163B shouldn't have been a problem. But, to be honest, seeing as it was totally non-official - and (from what I've read) done without permission - the ground crew could even have gone into town and bought the paint...
All the best
Rowan
Jessie_C
Joined: September 03, 2009
KitMaker: 6,965 posts
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Posted: Monday, April 21, 2014 - 08:57 AM UTC
Here's a page discussing the aircraft.
Merlin
Senior Editor#017
Joined: June 11, 2003
KitMaker: 17,582 posts
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Posted: Monday, April 21, 2014 - 09:24 AM UTC
Hi again
Incidentally, Wolfgang Späte's book is an excellent read if you haven't already got it.
All the best
Rowan
Incidentally, Wolfgang Späte's book is an excellent read if you haven't already got it.
All the best
Rowan
stooge
Joined: June 20, 2013
KitMaker: 210 posts
AeroScale: 210 posts
Posted: Monday, April 21, 2014 - 07:04 PM UTC
Thanks for the link Jessica, it has reminded me it was Ziegler who noted an aircraft arriving red from the factory. It is possible this is a reference to aircraft arriving in prime paint only, not uncommon the latter period of the War?
stonar
Joined: August 15, 2008
KitMaker: 337 posts
AeroScale: 309 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 22, 2014 - 02:14 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Thanks for the link Jessica, it has reminded me it was Ziegler who noted an aircraft arriving red from the factory. It is possible this is a reference to aircraft arriving in prime paint only, not uncommon the latter period of the War?
Except that the late war lacquers (manufactured by various companies to Warnecke and Bohm's formula) did not require a primer, and the camouflage colours were applied directly to the cleaned metal surface. This saved both time and weight. Internal areas were still often protected with RLM 02, as Crandall has noted on Fw 190 Ds.
The usual use for a red/brown primer (RLM 45) was on fabric surfaces.
Steve
thehermit
Joined: August 27, 2007
KitMaker: 277 posts
AeroScale: 64 posts
Posted: Saturday, April 26, 2014 - 01:25 PM UTC
OK folks, all good points to ponder. I'm still no closer to the end game of getting this bird painted for the next club contest...!! On the Meng box art side panels the colour almost looks like the primer seen on some "paper Panzers" and late war AFV's that had to get out of the factory real quick as the war was going sour for the Nazi's.
I think I may just end up using the RLM23 and add a touch of brown/black to knock back the "brightness".
What does everyone think of that approach...?
Regards,
thehermit
I think I may just end up using the RLM23 and add a touch of brown/black to knock back the "brightness".
What does everyone think of that approach...?
Regards,
thehermit
DougN1
Joined: August 08, 2011
KitMaker: 410 posts
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Posted: Sunday, April 27, 2014 - 02:32 AM UTC
I would go with RLM 23, not adding any brown to it, as there is no reason to base a model on Meng's box art - as it's probably just the red shade the printer decided to use (and Meng has traditionally been an armor kit producer). RLM 23 makes the most sense as the color, rather than some primer or other color. Also IIRC the plane was only red for a few days at best, so no weathering would be present.
Finally, Mr Color do an excellent RLM 23 as well that I like better than the Model Master shade.
Doug
Finally, Mr Color do an excellent RLM 23 as well that I like better than the Model Master shade.
Doug
Merlin
Senior Editor#017
Joined: June 11, 2003
KitMaker: 17,582 posts
AeroScale: 12,795 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 27, 2014 - 04:58 AM UTC
Hi again
Re-reading Späte's book, he mentions that "everyone thought that they had done a great thing for me" and asked the ground crew "How much paint did you spray on?" (approx. 40 pounds) - so it wasn't a factory-applied finish.
All the best
Rowan
Re-reading Späte's book, he mentions that "everyone thought that they had done a great thing for me" and asked the ground crew "How much paint did you spray on?" (approx. 40 pounds) - so it wasn't a factory-applied finish.
All the best
Rowan
thehermit
Joined: August 27, 2007
KitMaker: 277 posts
AeroScale: 64 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 27, 2014 - 11:49 AM UTC
Thanks for the tip Doug, RLM23 it is then. And the point Rowan made about the paint not stayin put for long is well heeded as I was gonna do some mild weatherin, but this could well make for a faster build for the next contest...NEXT week...!!
Thanks a lot chaps, made a puzzling build so much easier.
Cheers, Laurie
Thanks a lot chaps, made a puzzling build so much easier.
Cheers, Laurie
thehermit
Joined: August 27, 2007
KitMaker: 277 posts
AeroScale: 64 posts
Posted: Monday, April 28, 2014 - 01:45 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I would go with RLM 23, not adding any brown to it, as there is no reason to base a model on Meng's box art - as it's probably just the red shade the printer decided to use (and Meng has traditionally been an armor kit producer). RLM 23 makes the most sense as the color, rather than some primer or other color. Also IIRC the plane was only red for a few days at best, so no weathering would be present.
Finally, Mr Color do an excellent RLM 23 as well that I like better than the Model Master shade.
Doug
Ok, having that part figured out, would you suggest making the finish a little on the "matt" or "satin" side...? I'm thinking that a high gloss finish might look a little "toy like"...? Also, it's a bit tricky finding Mr Color 'round this neck o the woods...!
Regards
DougN1
Joined: August 08, 2011
KitMaker: 410 posts
AeroScale: 409 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 - 05:59 AM UTC
The actual RLM paints were semi-gloss when applied, so I would go with a semi-gloss finish for this project as well.
If you can't find Mr Color, you can always go with the Model Master paint.
Doug
If you can't find Mr Color, you can always go with the Model Master paint.
Doug
thehermit
Joined: August 27, 2007
KitMaker: 277 posts
AeroScale: 64 posts
Posted: Tuesday, April 29, 2014 - 01:50 PM UTC
Quoted Text
The actual RLM paints were semi-gloss when applied, so I would go with a semi-gloss finish for this project as well.
If you can't find Mr Color, you can always go with the Model Master paint.
Doug
THANKS a bunch Doug. Appreciate the help. I have some flat, satin and gloss additives for my Tamiya and Vallejo paints, so I can test out the finish.
Again, Ta very much mate...!
Laurie
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