Early Aviation
Discuss World War I and the early years of aviation thru 1934.
Discuss World War I and the early years of aviation thru 1934.
Hosted by Jim Starkweather
Silver doped linen formula
wing_nut
New Jersey, United States
Joined: June 02, 2006
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Joined: June 02, 2006
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Posted: Friday, June 20, 2014 - 12:31 PM UTC
WNW suggests 2 parts XF16 flat aluminum to 1 part XF19 Sky Gray. I am not a fan of their flat aluminum... too grainy. But with the gray in it looks nice. But... is it the right color or close enough or does someone have something better for that?
Jessie_C
British Columbia, Canada
Joined: September 03, 2009
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Joined: September 03, 2009
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Posted: Friday, June 20, 2014 - 01:12 PM UTC
Since each batch of silver dope was mixed pretty much on the spot, there's a lot of variation. Any reasonably flattish silver will do. I like to use Testors silver in the rattle can.
wing_nut
New Jersey, United States
Joined: June 02, 2006
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Joined: June 02, 2006
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Posted: Friday, June 20, 2014 - 02:35 PM UTC
Thanks Jessie
BoRoss78
California, United States
Joined: February 28, 2013
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Posted: Sunday, June 22, 2014 - 08:30 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Since each batch of silver dope was mixed pretty much on the spot, there's a lot of variation. Any reasonably flattish silver will do...
Can I ask, what is your source on that?
Jessie_C
British Columbia, Canada
Joined: September 03, 2009
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Joined: September 03, 2009
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Posted: Sunday, June 22, 2014 - 08:35 AM UTC
Nothing written down, just what I know from having helped out on 1/1 fabric and doping. Each mix has a subtle variation.
StukaJr
California, United States
Joined: April 26, 2010
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Joined: April 26, 2010
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Posted: Monday, June 23, 2014 - 06:15 AM UTC
Is this like asking for the correct mixture for PC10?
Posted: Monday, June 23, 2014 - 06:47 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Nothing written down, just what I know from having helped out on 1/1 fabric and doping. Each mix has a subtle variation.
I have had the same experience. Very difficult to match so a spot repair will always show.
wing_nut
New Jersey, United States
Joined: June 02, 2006
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Joined: June 02, 2006
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Posted: Monday, June 23, 2014 - 12:46 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Is this like asking for the correct mixture for PC10?
OH NO! I hope not LOL.
I really avoid those "what's the correct color" threads. So let me qualify my question by saying if i am building my usual WWII stuff I know what the colors are so I can never be too far off given that wiiiiiide variation in all colors. For the the silver dope... I just had no idea and needed a starting point.
(reminder to self... do not ask about PC10)
CaptnTommy
Connecticut, United States
Joined: October 26, 2009
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Joined: October 26, 2009
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Posted: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 - 01:47 AM UTC
So, let me get this straight.... You take a can of rocket fuel (Aluminum Powder) and mix it with your Cellulous Nitrate dope to taste, and apply it to the fabric of your aeroplane then go off and fight a war.
No wonder one should never fly in thunderstorms.
Irregardless
Captn Tommy
No wonder one should never fly in thunderstorms.
Irregardless
Captn Tommy
StukaJr
California, United States
Joined: April 26, 2010
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Joined: April 26, 2010
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Posted: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 - 05:54 AM UTC
Quoted Text
So, let me get this straight.... You take a can of rocket fuel (Aluminum Powder) and mix it with your Cellulous Nitrate dope to taste, and apply it to the fabric of your aeroplane then go off and fight a war.
No wonder one should never fly in thunderstorms.
Irregardless
Captn Tommy
Officers (aka Pilots) would never touch that stuff - that would be groundcrew's job while the former would be in the club, priming for the next one... Better not to think about what the dope actually is.
The rare NCO pilot would be left out of both procedures, so that would be an odd situation for all... Damn Victorian Era traditions and all!
NormSon
North Carolina, United States
Joined: December 17, 2006
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Joined: December 17, 2006
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Posted: Tuesday, June 24, 2014 - 11:56 AM UTC
As a matter of fact, yes. The dope mixture is actually the reason for the Hindenburg fire, and not the hydrogen (but it didn't help much). And it really is a mix that varies with every batch due to variations of the aluminum particle size, how well it's mixed, ratios, how clear the nitrocellulose is, and how it's applied.
JackFlash
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 25, 2004
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Posted: Tuesday, July 01, 2014 - 07:39 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextSince each batch of silver dope was mixed pretty much on the spot, there's a lot of variation. Any reasonably flattish silver will do...
Can I ask, what is your source on that?
Interesting. Concerning aircraft to aircraft in a one airframe manufacturing situation this might well be true. But in larger production batch at the factory fabric dope was mixed in large batches to do 20 - 30 aircraft and their components. The main variations were between wing and fuselage items. This is harder to detect when the machine is assembled as the light falls differently on them due to their relative positioning. So it might be more accurate to say that from production batch to production batch the differences might be noticeable. This of course also notes that and older machine may appear more "flat" that a factory fresh bird.
Another good statement might be that once they left the factory all bets were off.
Part of the spares for any aircraft sent to the front included various items such as stocks of paint / dope for repairs. Painting the same paint /dope with a brush will provide differences as well. Look at Baümer's Pfalz D.VIII and the repositioning of the fuselage crosses to allow his personal tricolour chevron its placement.
Being it was a fairly new machine with the fuselage crosses over-painted the difference is fairly minor.