Hi all,
I'm new to painting model aircraft and I'd like to start painting various airframes from middle eastern air powers in the modern (1980's onwards) era. Specifically I'm currently looking to do projects for the Israeli Air Force, IRIAF, Egyptian, Syrian and Iraqi air forces.
I'm not sure about painting techniques and which brands/colour paints to use for each of these air forces, and where to buy them from.
Any advice would be very much appreciated!
Thanks!
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New to painting jets- advice and tips please!
Brentonator
Joined: September 19, 2014
KitMaker: 14 posts
AeroScale: 13 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 09, 2014 - 10:12 AM UTC
Scrodes
Joined: July 22, 2012
KitMaker: 771 posts
AeroScale: 763 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 09, 2014 - 11:40 AM UTC
I don't have the answers for you - but to help someone who might, are you airbrushing or using a brush? That can make a difference as people tend to give specific colours from specific companies and some brush/airbrush better than others.
Jessie_C
Joined: September 03, 2009
KitMaker: 6,965 posts
AeroScale: 6,247 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 09, 2014 - 01:00 PM UTC
A must in every painter's reference kit is IPMS Sttockholm's Colout charts. Chart I lists the colours of most air forces, historical and current by country and Chart II gives cross-references between popular paint brands.
Since you're UKian, I expect that you have easy access to Humbrol, relatively easy access to Revell and possibly access to Testors Model Master. You can find matches to nearly all modern jet paints in their ranges.
Since you're UKian, I expect that you have easy access to Humbrol, relatively easy access to Revell and possibly access to Testors Model Master. You can find matches to nearly all modern jet paints in their ranges.
Brentonator
Joined: September 19, 2014
KitMaker: 14 posts
AeroScale: 13 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 09, 2014 - 06:42 PM UTC
Hey, thanks for the advice I'll look the chart up! I'm not sure about brush or airbrush; I've painted a lot of warhammer 40000 models in my past with brushes, and I'm swaying towards bigger scela model kits, ie. 1/48 and 1/32 scale.... lots of flat surfaces.... which is better?
I've never used an airbrush in my life, but I hear they're pretty good, although where to start with them, I'd have no idea!
I've never used an airbrush in my life, but I hear they're pretty good, although where to start with them, I'd have no idea!
drabslab
Joined: September 28, 2004
KitMaker: 2,186 posts
AeroScale: 1,587 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 09, 2014 - 11:50 PM UTC
Quoted Text
I'm not sure about brush or airbrush; I've painted a lot of warhammer 40000 models in my past with brushes, and I'm swaying towards bigger scela model kits, ie. 1/48 and 1/32 scale.... lots of flat surfaces.... which is better?
I've never used an airbrush in my life, but I hear they're pretty good, although where to start with them, I'd have no idea!
Airplanes are metal and they are airbrushed as well; You should aim first at a finalised finish similar to a car (and then possibly weather it so that it looks used and battered).
Hence, don't doubt, if you can afford it, get a decent airbrush and compressor; There are plenty of posts in this forum helping you to select one.
If you start painting with a brush, and later turn to airbrush, you will probably look rather diaspointed at your previous models imagining how they could have been when airbrushed.
If you have never made a plane, I recommend 1/48 for not being too big, containing sufficient detail and having a huge choice in models.
As it is your first, try the Tamiya brand (a skyraider for instance in 1/48) to start with. The fit is perfect, instruction sheets are clear and the end result is usually excellent.
have fun :-)
Joel_W
Associate Editor
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Friday, October 10, 2014 - 04:39 AM UTC
You'll find that the vast majority of builders here and on other sites use an airbrush for painting their aircraft models. leaving hand brushing for small detail parts.
There are single and duel action airbrushes, internal and external mix within action type. The easiest to learn to use is an external single action airbrush. I still use one: Paasche -H. It's a quality airbrush at a very reason price. Parts are readily available from numerous sources including Paasche in Chicago. Badger makes a excellent external single action airbrush as well.
Equally important is a good quality air compressor with a holding tank, and regulator.
It's a skill that all of us have learned, so it's not rocket science. You can learn the basics and be airbrushing within a few hours. Pick and choose paint schemes that match your skill level. As your skill level increases, you'll be able to duplicate just about any type of finish and pattern.
Joel
There are single and duel action airbrushes, internal and external mix within action type. The easiest to learn to use is an external single action airbrush. I still use one: Paasche -H. It's a quality airbrush at a very reason price. Parts are readily available from numerous sources including Paasche in Chicago. Badger makes a excellent external single action airbrush as well.
Equally important is a good quality air compressor with a holding tank, and regulator.
It's a skill that all of us have learned, so it's not rocket science. You can learn the basics and be airbrushing within a few hours. Pick and choose paint schemes that match your skill level. As your skill level increases, you'll be able to duplicate just about any type of finish and pattern.
Joel
Brentonator
Joined: September 19, 2014
KitMaker: 14 posts
AeroScale: 13 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 29, 2014 - 11:19 PM UTC
Hey guys,
Thanks for all the advice! :-) much appreciated!
In light of this information, please could you recommend me the best dual action and single action airbrushes, air compressors, regulators and holding tanks to start with and to get good results on various middle eastern air force camo schemes?
Also,
I've decided I'd like to use acrylic paints for my work, and I've seen the Tamiya acrylic paint range- are there any other brands which are comparable/better/recommended for quality results?
Many Thanks!
Thanks for all the advice! :-) much appreciated!
In light of this information, please could you recommend me the best dual action and single action airbrushes, air compressors, regulators and holding tanks to start with and to get good results on various middle eastern air force camo schemes?
Also,
I've decided I'd like to use acrylic paints for my work, and I've seen the Tamiya acrylic paint range- are there any other brands which are comparable/better/recommended for quality results?
Many Thanks!
plastickjunkie
Joined: December 31, 2009
KitMaker: 399 posts
AeroScale: 132 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 30, 2014 - 12:03 AM UTC
Airbruahing is a learned skill and takes practice and time. I suggest getting some cheap simple kits as donors and experiment on those. You can read and watch videos all you want about the subject, but until you actually start using the airbrush and experimenting is when you will gain the skill.
Acrylics vs. enamel and lacquers? Depends in your preference and you are the only one that can make that decision. I like enamels cause I find I get better control with the airbrush specially with small mottling but that's me, others swear by acrylics.
My airbrushes are Badger, one of them is over 30 years old and still hard at work so that says A LOT about Badger quality. Others like the Iwata line and again it will be user preference.
Sorry I can't give you any info on compressors as I don't live in the UK and have no idea what's available there but I'm sure someone will recommend something.
Acrylics vs. enamel and lacquers? Depends in your preference and you are the only one that can make that decision. I like enamels cause I find I get better control with the airbrush specially with small mottling but that's me, others swear by acrylics.
My airbrushes are Badger, one of them is over 30 years old and still hard at work so that says A LOT about Badger quality. Others like the Iwata line and again it will be user preference.
Sorry I can't give you any info on compressors as I don't live in the UK and have no idea what's available there but I'm sure someone will recommend something.
Littorio
Joined: September 15, 2004
KitMaker: 4,728 posts
AeroScale: 1,351 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 30, 2014 - 03:51 AM UTC
H, in the UK you can try 'Little cars' and the 'Airbrush Company' both sell airbrushes and compressors to suit most wallets along with any extras you may need like moisture traps, hoses etc. The Airbrush Co. also sell a large range of paints.
I'm a happy customer and not linked to either company.
Tamiya paints spray well through an airbrush but make sure you thin them with the correct type of thinner however they don't brush well even after thinning. Testors are very nice paints but hard to find over here, Lifecolor are water based acrylics and will airbrush with thinner and retarder but also practice as they dry very quickly. Hannants also have their own range of enamel and acrylic paints while WEM (White Ensign Models) have a very good range of colour matched enamels. Lastly believe it or not some Games Workshop colours actually match real camouflage colours you just need to find which one using a chart as the GW paint names don't help.
If your near Telford next weekend (8th & 9th Nov) the biggest model show in Europe is taking place, you can sometimes pick up some good deals from the traders, as well as meet all the clubs including some that may be close to your home.
I'm a happy customer and not linked to either company.
Tamiya paints spray well through an airbrush but make sure you thin them with the correct type of thinner however they don't brush well even after thinning. Testors are very nice paints but hard to find over here, Lifecolor are water based acrylics and will airbrush with thinner and retarder but also practice as they dry very quickly. Hannants also have their own range of enamel and acrylic paints while WEM (White Ensign Models) have a very good range of colour matched enamels. Lastly believe it or not some Games Workshop colours actually match real camouflage colours you just need to find which one using a chart as the GW paint names don't help.
If your near Telford next weekend (8th & 9th Nov) the biggest model show in Europe is taking place, you can sometimes pick up some good deals from the traders, as well as meet all the clubs including some that may be close to your home.
Brentonator
Joined: September 19, 2014
KitMaker: 14 posts
AeroScale: 13 posts
Posted: Monday, November 03, 2014 - 03:12 AM UTC
Thanks guys,
Unfortunately I'm at paintball training all weekend, so no modelling show for me
although, is that modelling show every year in the UK, and what is it called?
I'm pretty certain I'll be using acrylic paints as I'm used to them already with GW models... I've seen Vallejo acrulic paints as well, but I don't know anything about their quality as I've never used them.
In terms of a 'full' airbrush 'setup', what is everything that you would need for a decent 'airbrushing system', destined to see heavy use, other than an airbrush and compressor ( and paint of course!).
Also, how do the paint 'colour matching charts' work (I'm assuming there's some kind of standardisation), and do they cover colour matching for all brands/colours of paint?
Also, I've seen a few people talking about dual action and single action airbrushes- what are the main differences, advantages and disadvantages of both? I'm quite interested in a dual action from what I've seen, but I'm completely new to this, so advice from the vets would be much appreciated!
Thanks!
Unfortunately I'm at paintball training all weekend, so no modelling show for me
although, is that modelling show every year in the UK, and what is it called?I'm pretty certain I'll be using acrylic paints as I'm used to them already with GW models... I've seen Vallejo acrulic paints as well, but I don't know anything about their quality as I've never used them.
In terms of a 'full' airbrush 'setup', what is everything that you would need for a decent 'airbrushing system', destined to see heavy use, other than an airbrush and compressor ( and paint of course!).
Also, how do the paint 'colour matching charts' work (I'm assuming there's some kind of standardisation), and do they cover colour matching for all brands/colours of paint?
Also, I've seen a few people talking about dual action and single action airbrushes- what are the main differences, advantages and disadvantages of both? I'm quite interested in a dual action from what I've seen, but I'm completely new to this, so advice from the vets would be much appreciated!
Thanks!
Brentonator
Joined: September 19, 2014
KitMaker: 14 posts
AeroScale: 13 posts
Posted: Monday, November 03, 2014 - 03:15 AM UTC
Quoted Text
H, in the UK you can try 'Little cars' and the 'Airbrush Company' both sell airbrushes and compressors to suit most wallets along with any extras you may need like moisture traps, hoses etc. The Airbrush Co. also sell a large range of paints.
I'm a happy customer and not linked to either company.
Tamiya paints spray well through an airbrush but make sure you thin them with the correct type of thinner however they don't brush well even after thinning. Testors are very nice paints but hard to find over here, Lifecolor are water based acrylics and will airbrush with thinner and retarder but also practice as they dry very quickly. Hannants also have their own range of enamel and acrylic paints while WEM (White Ensign Models) have a very good range of colour matched enamels. Lastly believe it or not some Games Workshop colours actually match real camouflage colours you just need to find which one using a chart as the GW paint names don't help.
If your near Telford next weekend (8th & 9th Nov) the biggest model show in Europe is taking place, you can sometimes pick up some good deals from the traders, as well as meet all the clubs including some that may be close to your home.
Just wondering,
With Tamiya paints, what is the 'correct' type of thinner for them? I saw a Tamiya branded thinner in a shop, but didn't really see much more information on it.
Is there a 'benchmark' ratio for thinning paints as well?
Jessie_C
Joined: September 03, 2009
KitMaker: 6,965 posts
AeroScale: 6,247 posts
Posted: Monday, November 03, 2014 - 08:42 AM UTC
Tamiya has two types of thinner, for their reqular paints and for their Lacquers. Be sure that you're getting the correct one
Mixing thinner and paint is a black art but you can't go far wrong to mix until your paint is the consiestency of 2% milk. Experiment and find out which works for you.
Mixing thinner and paint is a black art but you can't go far wrong to mix until your paint is the consiestency of 2% milk. Experiment and find out which works for you.
Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Monday, November 03, 2014 - 08:44 AM UTC
[quote
Just wondering,
With Tamiya paints, what is the 'correct' type of thinner for them? I saw a Tamiya branded thinner in a shop, but didn't really see much more information on it.
Is there a 'benchmark' ratio for thinning paints as well?
[/quote]
Tamiya makes both Acrylics and Enamel paints. The most common here is their excellent line of Acrylics. Their standard thinner is white cap X-20A which is Isopropyl Alcohol based. You can also use their yellow cap Lacquer Thinner. It does a much better job of breaking down the paint particles so that the paint is smoother then with X-20A. I use both, but prefer their LC for fuselage paint schemes.
As for thinner ratios, I generally start at 1:1. That does vary to 1:2 depending on what and how I'm air brushing. For general work I use a flow rate of about 16 psi. The closer I need to get to the surface, the more I thin out the paint and drop down to about 12 psi or so.
Joel
Just wondering,
With Tamiya paints, what is the 'correct' type of thinner for them? I saw a Tamiya branded thinner in a shop, but didn't really see much more information on it.
Is there a 'benchmark' ratio for thinning paints as well?
[/quote]
Tamiya makes both Acrylics and Enamel paints. The most common here is their excellent line of Acrylics. Their standard thinner is white cap X-20A which is Isopropyl Alcohol based. You can also use their yellow cap Lacquer Thinner. It does a much better job of breaking down the paint particles so that the paint is smoother then with X-20A. I use both, but prefer their LC for fuselage paint schemes.
As for thinner ratios, I generally start at 1:1. That does vary to 1:2 depending on what and how I'm air brushing. For general work I use a flow rate of about 16 psi. The closer I need to get to the surface, the more I thin out the paint and drop down to about 12 psi or so.
Joel
Littorio
Joined: September 15, 2004
KitMaker: 4,728 posts
AeroScale: 1,351 posts
Posted: Monday, November 03, 2014 - 09:54 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Thanks guys,
Unfortunately I'm at paintball training all weekend, so no modelling show for me
I'm pretty certain I'll be using acrylic paints as I'm used to them already with GW models... I've seen Vallejo acrulic paints as well, but I don't know anything about their quality as I've never used them.
In terms of a 'full' airbrush 'setup', what is everything that you would need for a decent 'airbrushing system', destined to see heavy use, other than an airbrush and compressor ( and paint of course!).
Also, how do the paint 'colour matching charts' work (I'm assuming there's some kind of standardisation), and do they cover colour matching for all brands/colours of paint?
Thanks!
Ok first the show is Scale Model World and is run and organised by the IPMS UK, type in IPMS UK on any search engine and it will take you to their site with info on the show including a list of traders and clubs, oh yes it's held the same time every year.
Vallejo paint is very good, they have several ranges, Air which is designed to be used straight through an airbrush although I'd still add some retarder. Game, these are colours designed with war gaming in mind and Basic which can be brushed on or if thinned down (and retarder) can be shot through an airbrush. The Air and Basic ranges are in most cases matched to a colour so if you needed RLM66 for a German aircraft then you look through their range for that.
'Full' airbrush set up depends on your circumstance, if you live in a flat then you want a quite compressor which can add a little to the price where as if you have access to a shed or garage then your not so bothered. A compressor with a tank is one to go for however don't overlook onces with out as these are still good. Airbrush it self is personal choice, shame you can't make the show as some allow you to try before you buy. In the UK a moisture trap is highly recommended and may come with the Compressor / airbrush set up, face mask not the paper throw away type and lastly an extractor to remove the fumes as you spray to the outside. Others I'm sure will add to this.
Colour matching charts allow to reference a FS, BS, RLM (these are Federal Standard, British Standard and Reich ministry) number against the different makes like Tamiya, Vallejo, Humbrol etc be aware that not all colours will be covered by one make so you will need to either mix or use another make.
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