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Modern (1975-today)
Discuss the modern aircraft age from 1975 thru today.
Backdating Revell's 1:32 F-4E?
FinneganBojangles
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New Jersey, United States
Joined: May 01, 2013
KitMaker: 60 posts
AeroScale: 56 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 16, 2014 - 10:43 PM UTC
I just got this kit as a gift from a friend who was never going to get around to building it. I'm already aware of some of the slight failings of the kit (nose is not the right shape, landing gear are a bit short, lack of cockpit side detail)and I've found some aftermarket sets to correct these problems, though I'm waiting for Christmas money to buy them.

I'd like to represent the aircraft as a Vietnam-era F-4E and paint it up in SEAC, however I understand that the kit represents a later production run. I'm not too familiar with the F-4, is there any serious work that would need to go into backdating the kit to represent an aircraft from the Vietnam War?
Joel_W
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
AUTOMODELER
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New York, United States
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, December 16, 2014 - 11:24 PM UTC
Kevin,
There were two releases of the F-4E by Revell. If your kit has recessed panel lines, then it's the later release. The original release had several shape errors which I understand from reviews were corrected with the 2nd release. That kit represents a mid run E, not a late run E.
Joel
FinneganBojangles
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New Jersey, United States
Joined: May 01, 2013
KitMaker: 60 posts
AeroScale: 56 posts
Posted: Wednesday, December 17, 2014 - 09:13 PM UTC
Hi Joel,

It is indeed the later release. I wouldn't have had the time nor patience to rescribe panel lines on a beast like this! Are there any really overt or critical things to look out for if I try and back-date it? The most obvious one is probably going to be the armament, as the kit load-out and decals represent two 80s-era Air NG aircraft.
Jessie_C
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British Columbia, Canada
Joined: September 03, 2009
KitMaker: 6,965 posts
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Posted: Thursday, December 18, 2014 - 02:41 AM UTC
The critical features which were added to the -E were the elongated gun muzzle and the wing slats and slots. The early muzzle was fairly short and swept back as seen here (note also the slatless wings). The later gun muzzle looks like this.

The inboard slats folded flush with the top of the wing, and there were 3 actuator fairings under the leading edge. The outboard slats were always partially open and they had a short fence on their inboard edge. The hard wing of course had neither.
phantom_phanatic309
#372
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United Kingdom
Joined: March 10, 2010
KitMaker: 2,568 posts
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Posted: Thursday, December 18, 2014 - 04:59 AM UTC
I'd have to check my references, but I think slatted wing F-4E's were in service in time for Linebacker (1972-73). I'm working from memory here so I could be wrong.
Most of the missiles in the box should still be applicable to the era you want to model. Sparrows were virtually unchanged externally throughout their service life and you should have the early belly tank in the box. I think only the more recent boxings have had the later F-15 tank and more modern load out. Do you know which type of Sidewinder is included in your kit, or able to provide photo's? You may need to back date those if they are a later version.
Now, if you want to show it bombed up with some TER's and Mk.82's on the inner pylons, the Sidewinders won't be an issue as USAF Phantom's couldn't carry both. Only USMC and Navy Phantoms could. This was because they used a different type of pylon. It was something to do with the internal wiring and how little clearance there was between the different stores on the air force type. So it's either missiles or bombs. Does it give you any bombs?
http://www.stickandtissue.com/yabbfiles/Attachments/F-4E__67-0287__388th_TFW__Korat__1971__RH_Morgan.jpg
http://www.keytlaw.com/images/rkwithf4.jpg

Hope this helps and ask away if you need anything else.

Stephen.
FinneganBojangles
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New Jersey, United States
Joined: May 01, 2013
KitMaker: 60 posts
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Posted: Friday, December 19, 2014 - 06:20 AM UTC
Hi Stephen,

The kit doesn't come with any bombs, and based on reviews, the AIM-9L Sidewinders and AIM-120 AAMRAAMs that come with the kit were not found aboard F-4Es. It does, however, come with two AIM-7Fs and different fuel tank options. The gun muzzle is the later variant.
phantom_phanatic309
#372
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United Kingdom
Joined: March 10, 2010
KitMaker: 2,568 posts
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Posted: Sunday, December 21, 2014 - 03:09 AM UTC
Hi Kevin,
as I suspected my memory was playing tricks on me. Slatted wing F-4E's are post Vietnam. A modification kit was produced and supplied by McDonnell Douglas from 1972 and fitted on the production builds, but it would have missed the war. It's possible some could have had the kit fitted in time for Linebacker, but I've not seen a photo yet. You can easily build it in SEAC colours as this continued in use throughout the 70's and early 80's. Flying with the ANG, air-defence would have been their main task so what the kit gives you will work. You might want to see if you can find some AIM-9E's or J's.
Interestingly the wing slats were developed and tested on Phantoms in 60's as part of the F-15 project under the codename Agile Eagle. They were ultimately rejected as the F-15 could already fly rings around almost everything then flying. It was found that they did enhance the performance of the F-4 considerably and the decision was taken to fit them to the E and Navy S models.
The best reference book on the Phantom is 'McDonnell F-4 Phantom Spirit in the Skies' by World Air Power Journal. Not sure if it's still in print but I thoroughly recommend it.

Hope this helps
 _GOTOTOP