This topic is pursuant to an AT-11 Kansan build I've got going in the Two-Seat/Trainer Campaign blog. I'm throwing this out separately in hopes of catching a few extra eyeballs and possibly crowd-sourcing some ideas. The time is approaching where I've got to make some paint decisions on this beast. Since the AT-11's were invariably bare metal and we all know how finicky that can be, I've got to put a little more forethought into how I throw paint than is my norm. The plan is to start with the engine cowlings, mask them, then a gloss black primer coat, then the anti-glare panels, more masking then bare metal. My specific problem is the color of the cowlings. Since I've got a pretty good shot of this bird and I like the markings this is my choice:



Looking at the rudder stripes and the center of the national insignia which I know are red, my guess on the cowling was initially yellow. Then I spotted another shot of a couple of aircraft that appear to be from the same unit in flight.



Again trying to judge the cowling colors against the rudder stripes, this time red seem's a better choice. Now there could be a couple of different scenarios in play here: 1) These could be the same color that just appears to be different due to differences in lighting, or an artifact of the type of film used. 1940's film was notorious for doing strange things with reds and yellows. 2) Both pictures could be correct and these are aircraft from different "flights" within the same squadron or group, with the flights denoted by cowling color. All of the plane-in-group numbers are in the same number range which would normally argue against different flights. It may just be coincidence but all of the aircraft on the ground have "odd" plane-in-group numbers, while both in-flight planes have even numbers. And just for comparison, here's another shot (different time & unit) which shows what I think is white cowlings.



So my question to the community is; does anybody have any insights into this issue and/or since these are Life Magazine photos they may have originally been color shots, and if so any links?

I just tried a grey scale comparison in Photoshop of plane “800”. Both cowlings and rudder bars stripes average at 56% black. In my opinion, both are red.

Consider also that yellow, when photographed with “ortho” films, would appear as black, or a very dark shade.

Could the cowlings be Orange ?

Yellow is a very common training colour. You can't really go far wrong using it.

Hello dmiller,

Most of the photo's taken in WWII were on black and white film because it was easier to develop. The cost of developing color photo's back then was very expensive and took longer then black and white photo's to publish. Also the censorship at the time would of played a role in what got shown to the public.

I found these examples. Note: Some are of static museum pieces and some are from surviving examples.







HTH.

See ya in the funnies..................

Brian’s pic number two is the most interesting, I think. It clearly shows a common occurrence with almost all known pigment: red fades faster than other colours. And it shows another common occurrence: fading of old colour photographs; again red is the faster in fading.
In any case, comparing Thearmorer’s BW pics tells a lot. Lets take a second look at planes 801 (light colour cowlings) and 800 (dark colour cowlings). I would say that any colour applied as trim on training aircraft is surely a brilliant shade: yellow, red, bright green, blue, white. No camouflage colours here!
801 cannot have red cowlings, because we see clearly insignia red, and it’s different. By the same token, cannot have white, as we see insignia white also.
Could it be green? To my eyes, it’s too light.
Could it be blue? Again, to my eyes, it’s too light, even if we consider medium blue.
In the end, yellow looks as the most probable.
In foreground, there are piles of practice bombs. The one on the left are light, slightly lighter than cowlings (bombs average 38% black, cowlings 40% black). And yellow is a reasonable colour for practice bombs. The bombs on the right are darker, but not as dark as insignia red. They could be olive drab: a hint against green cowlings and in favour of yellow ones.
Plane 800 has, in my opinion, red cowlings. We see exactly the same shade of grey on cowlings and rudder stripes. In theory, we can have a shade of blue or green that looks exactly the same as red in grey scale, but how probable is it? Orange was not common as identifier colour. And, lastly, I would leave out yellow: it’s too dark for a normal film, and way too light for an ortho film.

All that said, I would have a hard time in making a final decision: I prefer yellow cowlings, but also even numbers!

DM,
I just read through the entire thread, and even Sherlock Holmes would have been impressed with the comparative reasons and final choice: Go gloss Yellow.

As for painting, naturally prime and seal any and all putty work. Polish, then polish once again.

1-Gloss yellow cowling
2-Gloss Black base coat/polish
3- Alcad #101
4- Mask for various shaded of Aluminum.
5- Mask for Anti glare panels
6-Seal with a clear coat. I prefer Alcad 11 #310.

Ready for decaling.

Joel

Everybody,
Many thanks for the excellent input, special thanks to Maurizio who went to the trouble to analyze the hues in photoshop. I believe the color we're dealing with here is almost assuredly yellow. Looking for some additional background info I broke out my trusty copy of Robert Archer's "Official Monogram US Army Air Service & Air Corps Aircraft Color Guide, Vol I" (not too wordy, huh?) and I found some info that add a little to the decision. The following diagram shows the use of Squadron colors and "flight" markings for the time period in question:



Since I don't know how well these colors will translate to everyone's monitors, the cowling colors under the P-36 are: (left to right) red, white, yellow, and blue. The use of individual flight markings seem to be used predominately in pursuit (fighter) squadrons. This shot is another from the Archer book:



The general markings put this aircraft in the same time period as I'm dealing with, possibly the same unit. A close look at where the engine cowling meets the nacelle shows a color change between the bare metal nacelle and the painted cowling. This appears much too light for red (note rudder stripes) which is in the same lighting as the "708" portion of the cowling. The same holds true for white (again rudder stripes) versus the cowling color. It's just got to be yellow. Using Archer's color chip appendix my best guess is "Identification Yellow 48" or using FS595a - x3538 (x being reflectance, 1-gloss, 3-flat). Since I've already got red, white and blue going, yellow will be a good splash of color. For my money it's the detective work that makes the hobby interesting. Thanks again everybody, each comment added a piece to the puzzle!
Carry on.