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World War II: USA
Aircraft of the United States in WWII.
Hosted by Rowan Baylis
Marine SBD-1 1/48
Redhand
#522
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Posted: Thursday, August 20, 2015 - 01:17 AM UTC

Quoted Text


"...It is not a "natural metal finish," but rather an aluminum lacquer. No one really knows whether the interiors were painted differently when the exteriors lost the "golden wings" colors, but from my own experience of the USN aviation department, I think they didn't do anything that didn't have to be done. In other words, I think the Marine SBD-1s were left in aluminum lacquer.

I know for a fact that the SBD-2s had an interior green color... because the CO of VB-6, who flew SBD-2s until they re-equipped with SBD-3s just before they went to Midway, told me so (interview with LCDR R.E. Best, USN, Ret).

However, those airplanes were never "golden wings" in markings, but arrived overall grey, were later painted blue
on their uppers, which makes things just different enough. FWIW, I asked Dick about this point, and while he had nothing specific, he did say that there was so much effort going on during the period before the war "none of my SBD-2s had the same shade of blue on them," so I think my belief that nothing more than was necessary was done, so you can safely go with aluminum lacquer interior..." Tom Cleaver

Joel




Maybe there's hope yet for my Wake Island TBD-1 with the "aluminum lacquer" interior. [Bawhawhaw!]
Joel_W
Staff MemberAssociate Editor
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Posted: Thursday, August 20, 2015 - 02:37 AM UTC
[/quote]

Maybe there's hope yet for my Wake Island TBD-1 with the "aluminum lacquer" interior. [Bawhawhaw!] [/quote]

Brian,
Being a TBD-1, there is a very good chance that the interior was left in it's Aluminum lacquer.

Besides, you shouldn't be worrying about such matters now, and concentrating on your B-17F. This is s big weekend coming up for you.

Joel
fightnjoe
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Posted: Friday, August 21, 2015 - 07:11 AM UTC
A quick update showing the fuselage together, the wings on, and the tail feathers attached.

I am really impressed with the fit and the clean attachment of the wings and tail feathers.



Not much for seams at all. Now to sand them out and get the little bits on.



All comments, critiques, and criticism are encouraged.



Joe
fightnjoe
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Posted: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 - 09:00 AM UTC
Wow ... has it really been two months since my last update on this?

I guess so.

Guess I should show what I have done huh?

Not much really, the interior is ready to go and the canopy is now firmly in place.

She is ready for paint.




Paint is next.

All comments, critiques, and criticism are encouraged.



Joe
GazzaS
#424
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Posted: Wednesday, October 21, 2015 - 09:49 AM UTC
Looks good so far, Joe. There sure is a lot of surface detail to that bird. What cement did you use on your canopy? I've been afraid to use any strong glues for fear of fogging, so mine are never secured firmly. I use white glue, but have little faith in it's ability to hold on.

Best Wishes,

Gary
fightnjoe
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Posted: Thursday, October 22, 2015 - 02:08 AM UTC
Gary I dip the canopy in future and then use Tamiya Extra Thin. I have had no fogging.


Joe
GazzaS
#424
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Queensland, Australia
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Posted: Thursday, October 22, 2015 - 09:38 AM UTC
Ok, thanks. Will try it.
Emeritus
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Posted: Thursday, October 22, 2015 - 02:44 PM UTC
I haven't had issues with regular styrene cement (liquid or not) causing fogging canopies. In my experience, even CA is okay as long as it's not an enclosed canopy inside which the fumes get trapped and form fogging. Of course, with styrene cement you have to make sure to avoid spills.

Generally, canopies don't come under much stress in a finished model so weaker glues are often sufficient. I've used PVA, Microscale Kristal Klear and Gator's Grip. The last two clear.

Joe, does liquid cement dissolve through Future to make a styrene-to-styrene bond?
So far I've attached Future-dipped canopies with PVA or similar glues.
fightnjoe
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Posted: Saturday, October 24, 2015 - 12:04 AM UTC
It does seem to cut through the future and then bond the plastic. I have not had issues. I have also used white glue to set the canopy.



Joe
krow113
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British Columbia, Canada
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Posted: Saturday, October 24, 2015 - 10:31 PM UTC
Looking good Joe.
I use small drops of ca to secure my canopy's , then wick in the edges with 50/50 white glue, or Micro Krystal Klear glue, and water to seal the whole thing against over spray.I do usually 3-4 applications.Capillary action will pull the glue in , sealing the edges alla way round.
fightnjoe
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Posted: Monday, October 26, 2015 - 09:29 AM UTC
Many thanks.

Well my friends here I am again.

After a bit of rough sailing with the paint I can update the work in progress. The painting process was: Flat Black overall. Model Master Aluminium Plate on specific panels, Model Master Neutral Gray sprayed in a very random pattern, The same sprayed concentrating on the panels. The look is very subtle but should be picked out ok with pin washes. There was an issue with a sandpaper like surface appearing after the initial spraying and the second spraying of the Gray. It was knocked down with 1000 grit sandpaper.



The engine was sprayed Gloss Black, Alclad Polished Aluminium, and then the crankcase drybrushed with Flat Gray, The "wires" were painted to instructions as Red (Empire Red).



Overall I am pretty happy with the results although the rough texture was a confusing situation. Still no idea of what it was or why it happened.

Next up is application of decals. At that point for the most part this build will go dark. I will post one photo of the finish but I am trying to determine if this will be written up or not.

All comments, critiques, and criticism are encouraged.


Joe
GazzaS
#424
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Posted: Monday, October 26, 2015 - 09:45 AM UTC
Wait, decals before paint?

Gary
fightnjoe
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Posted: Tuesday, October 27, 2015 - 07:58 PM UTC
Gary no. It is painted. Overall Neutral Gray. Next up will be the decals.



Joe
Redhand
#522
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Posted: Tuesday, October 27, 2015 - 08:53 PM UTC
You probably know this but I believe the dive flap interiors are red. Do post a couple of pics of the final build. Also, I think the overall grey was ANA 602 light grey but this looks the part.
Joel_W
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Posted: Tuesday, October 27, 2015 - 11:20 PM UTC

Quoted Text

You probably know this but I believe the dive flap interiors are red. Do post a couple of pics of the final build. Also, I think the overall grey was ANA 602 light grey but this looks the part.




Brian,
The vast majority of SBDs center dive flaps were painted the same Gray as the bottom of the aircraft. A mistake that I also made on my 1st build.
Joel
Redhand
#522
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Posted: Wednesday, October 28, 2015 - 02:46 PM UTC

Quoted Text



Brian,
The vast majority of SBDs center dive flaps were painted the same Gray as the bottom of the aircraft. A mistake that I also made on my 1st build.
Joel



Duly noted!
fightnjoe
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Posted: Thursday, October 29, 2015 - 05:21 PM UTC
Funny the instructions call for the interior flaps as all red. My experience with instructions and paint call outs leave me with a uneasy feeling with that particular call out. Research is commencing as I am just not sure what they were at that time.


Joe
fightnjoe
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Posted: Saturday, October 31, 2015 - 02:05 AM UTC
A quick update.

A couple of things. The aircraft has been glossed, decaled, and glossed again. The wheels and hubs have been prepped and painted.




Not looking too bad to be honest. Now the finishing touches can be added. Flaps, wheels, weathering, cowl, prop, and antenna wire are left to add. A final Matte coat to finish it all off. Not far to go on this one.

Also with this update I come to a point where I need to decide whether to write it up or not. I am just not sure on this one. If I do write it up she will go dark until I get a yes or no from the editor.

All comments, critiques, and criticism are encouraged.



Joe
flypaper
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Posted: Saturday, October 31, 2015 - 05:45 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

Sorry Joel, I just disagree on this. I know thats the conventional line of thinking but my searches 2 years ago brought up some controversy on the issue, and I came away from it believing green interior in the case of the SBD-1. I cant cite sources, just scratched notes on the instruction sheet. I urge anyone interested to investigate for themselves.

Or just "run whatcha brung" because these color debacles can be nail biters sonetimes, right one day wrong the next and then right again a couple years later.



Mike,
As long as Joe is satisfied that the colors are correct, that's all that matters.

All I'm saying is that it was the standard paint orders of the period. Prior to WW11 all aircraft should have had Aluminum lacquer cockpits. It's not like they switched from Interior Green to Aluminum lacquer. I'm not even sure as to why they decided to switch other then the glare issue. Or maybe that the Aluminum pigment was needed as Aluminum sheet.

Here's a quote from a article on the Swedish IPMS site:

" Some sources state the SBD-1s most probably had Aluminium lacquer interiors, while others claim some Mixed Green/Interior Green with Zinc Chromate for the remaining airframe"

I took this to mean that the cockpit itself was Aluminum lacquer, but that the rest of the interior was painted a Green Interior color.

I had this issue with the Buffalo build as well since I was modeling a specific event: the Battle of Midway. Even simple things like going from the tri-color prop tip to Yellow wasn't done in a day. Jim Maas sent me pictures of black props with tri-color tips that dated mid 1942, which made even less sense.

Joel



I Remember reading in a journal (perhaps AAHS) that the Navy did not like the idea of a 'painted interior' so they left it in its natural aluminum and applied a coat of CLEAR lacquer over it. The reason given was that any color coating would hide any signs of corrosion, which being sea going was important.
Later when war came along things like that didn't matter so much since the turnover of a/c was so great, but, for early Naval a/c it makes sense to me.
DanaBell
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Posted: Monday, December 07, 2015 - 08:23 AM UTC
Hi Joe,

I'm new to this site, and have enjoyed your SBD-1 build. I suspect you're done by now, but I wanted to confirm that your interior color is correct - should that still be an issue.

Nearly all pre-War Navy interiors were coated with two coats of primer and a finish coat, usually of aluminized lacquer. In the mid-1930s, Northrop was advised that they could add the aluminum paste directly to the second coat of zinc chromate primer, skipping the third coat. The resulting color was what is often described as a candy-apple green. The next variation added black enamel to the mix, yielding a color known as Yellow Green. Interior Green came about in late-1942, dropping the aluminum from the mix for a darker interior color.

Your Interior Green is reasonably close to the Yellow Green.

Northrop left its BT-1 development to (then) parent company Douglas, so the Yellow Green color was continued into the SBD series.

There was also a question about the flap interior color. Joel noted that the center flaps were originally the exterior color. The interior of the outer flaps would still have been Insignia Red. The red had also come from the BT-1, where it was discovered that the lead aircraft could signal all trailing aircraft to dive when the red dive flap interior was flashed. The under-fuselage center flap was less visible, and would not be red until mid-war when the red was discovered to be a safety feature saving the fingers of the deck crew.

Nice model - hope you've had a chance to finish, and I'd love to see the results!

Cheers,



Dana
fightnjoe
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Posted: Monday, December 07, 2015 - 09:31 AM UTC
Dana it is good to see you here. Thank you for the confirmation. The SBD is done and should be in an upcoming issue of Model Aircraft Magazine.

Joe
bomber14
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Posted: Tuesday, December 08, 2015 - 01:42 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I haven't had issues with regular styrene cement (liquid or not) causing fogging canopies. In my experience, even CA is okay as long as it's not an enclosed canopy inside which the fumes get trapped and form fogging. Of course, with styrene cement you have to make sure to avoid spills.

Generally, canopies don't come under much stress in a finished model so weaker glues are often sufficient. I've used PVA, Microscale Kristal Klear and Gator's Grip. The last two

Joe, does liquid cement dissolve through Future to make a styrene-to-styrene bond?
So far I've attached Future-dipped canopies with PVA or similar glues.




guys it's my understanding that if you dipped the canopy in future you don't have to worry about fogging. also only superglues will fog the clear plastic, correct me if i'm wrong.
i've never used styrene glue for the canopies. i thought they were made of a different plastic that is not compatible with styrene glue.

joe
fightnjoe
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Posted: Tuesday, December 08, 2015 - 06:19 PM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

I haven't had issues with regular styrene cement (liquid or not) causing fogging canopies. In my experience, even CA is okay as long as it's not an enclosed canopy inside which the fumes get trapped and form fogging. Of course, with styrene cement you have to make sure to avoid spills.

Generally, canopies don't come under much stress in a finished model so weaker glues are often sufficient. I've used PVA, Microscale Kristal Klear and Gator's Grip. The last two

Joe, does liquid cement dissolve through Future to make a styrene-to-styrene bond?
So far I've attached Future-dipped canopies with PVA or similar glues.




guys it's my understanding that if you dipped the canopy in future you don't have to worry about fogging. also only superglues will fog the clear plastic, correct me if i'm wrong.
i've never used styrene glue for the canopies. i thought they were made of a different plastic that is not compatible with styrene glue.

joe



I have seen others with this issue. I am not sure what the chemical reaction is but I do know I have seen and heard of fogging of clear parts with both CA and styrene glues. A long time ago I decided to take the precaution and just dip all the clear parts in Future. I have seen no fogging. I have used both CA and styrene glues.

Joe
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