Hi all, just a quick re-visit to this topic. I get the the feeling from the posts and opinions of numerous people on this site and many others, that Radu's stainless steel RAF wire sets are extremely hard to make work. BUT, if you can, they are also very effective. a while ago I bought a few sets and also the end fittings to play with. But, shortly after I did so, I began to see all the posts about this system so I held off using them until a definitive answer/opinion surfaced. (and in all honesty, I did not have a model ready for them anyway!) I did build a test rig out of sheet and spare strut material, and tried the various suggestions and a few of my own, with varying degrees of failure. LOL. However, now this is the interesting bit, I was over at a friend of mine today working on his 930, and we got to talking about his business. He is a jeweler. Well, it turns out that he has a micro-welding machine that uses a laser. Says he can join the tiniest of parts with precision, and NO HEAT. So, you can guess where my thoughts immediately went, YUUUP....Photo-etch!! He says he works with stainless steel pieces every day, so I showed him Radu's website with the relevant sets up and he said "sure, no problem!!" Next step, I am taking some sets and my test rig over to his shop this week to play. If this works, then anyone should be able to go to a local jewelry repair shop and have the wires welded. YES,I KNOW!!!! this is an over simplification, but give me chance to work out a usable system,and I think this might be helpful. As always, comments, suggestions and idea's/input s always welcome and encouraged. So, what do ya think? Regards, Pete

Have the wires welded to what?
I see no way to make p/e flat rigging work ,unless the wing bays have no movement at all.
The problem is the movement of the model parts according to temperature and humidity. The s/s p/e cant move in the same way as the plastic.

I tried everything I could over three weeks to get it to work, made a mess of my model , and then rigged it in one day with Prym from WNW.

Hiya, yes, I tried and failed too. If you posted about your experiences with this, then I had probably read it. I am thinking along the lines of micro-welding the wires to RB's terminals, then attatching those to the plastic. This is all very experimental at this point, and I am using a plastic sheet test rig, not a kit wing. Just trying to see if it all is possible. Regards, Pete.

Aint gonna work Pete. The plastic grows and shrinks with the temperature , at a different rate than the stainless wires.

It's that simple.

I thought of attaching the terminals , then having the wires 'float' in them , but that would entail smoothing the ends of each wire to alleviate contact friction inside the terminal. What a load of ... work!

Another way is to fabricate the terminal-wire-terminal piece and only attach one end, this would allow the piece to grow and shrink on its own.

I humiliated myself in front of my entire IPMS club trying to do a p/e flat rigging tutorial, I have around $100.00 of this stuff in my stock, my friend spent at least $40 on it, and I had to tell them all: "I can't make it work".
GOOD LUCK!!!
ADDENDUM: I did use it to replicate some ribbing detail on a 1/72 scale Hiller 'copter , so it's not entirely useless!

Hmm, my stubborn tail is still digging in. I guess it's because I just hate the latest trend of using oversize tubing on wire loops. There HAS to be a better way.Especially on 1/32 scale.

Nice painting on those wings BTW.

Thanks Pete!
Gaspatch makes a series of turnbuckles for 1/48 and 1/32 scale models. These are my recommendation. I saw a Roland with the tubing for turnbuckles and it wasn't real looking enough for my eye. Check out the Gaspatch stuff , they do a set of flat rigging types as well.
The wing is from my Biff:


I used a number of different materials to rig that thing! The p/e turnbuckles , Prym from WNW , .004"-.008" stainless and brass wire there is even some of the p/e flat rigging on it as well.
If you really must prove to yourself if it works or not is up to you.
Good lick!

An old modeler's trick using dental brace stainless steel flat wire (similar to RB rigging wire)is to let the rigid rigging "float" in one of the two anchor points in the plastic. Pre-drill your attachment points in the wings or fuselage, measure your wire, and attach your turnbuckles to both ends of a pre-measured length of wire. Flex the wire to get it in position, but anchor it with glue at one end of the wire only, allowing the other end to "float" in the pre-drilled hole in the plastic. This allows the wire to expand and contract without distortion. The plastic itself does not expand or contract enough to cause the problem.
I've used the "floating wire" technique for many years, but I really prefer 2lb and 4lb Chameleon brand brown nylon fishing line to do my rigging, as it adds strength to the wings when properly done, and frankly the exact measuring of "flaoting" wire is a pain. As stated earlier, Prym flat rigging thread from Wingnut Wings also works, but for certain applications, nothing beats real flat wire. I have a Williams Brothers Gee-Bee and a P-26 that have been rigged for 15 years with flat wire, and they still have no temperature distortion using the floating wire technique. Of course wires will still bend when I poke a fat finger through the rigging-- which is another drawback requiring careful handling. VR, Russ

That came out nice,Steve, well done. I havent started my wnw Brit kits yet until this rigging issue is sorted. Got the biff, se5, dh2, fe2b in the stash all a-waiting. I do have some gaspatch products, mostly for the D5 and LVG. Very impressed.

Hi Russ, yes, I am thinking along those lines. It seemed the most logical approach. Regards, Pete

Pete,
One other note regarding using wire for rigging (or for any rigging for that matter)-- I always use brass pins to reinforce the mounting points in strut-to-wing joints, this keeps the struts rigid and secure for rigging. I've built many biplanes over the years (usually in 1/32 scale, but a few in 1/48), and I've never had problems maintaining the rigging tension when I "pin" the struts to the wing, and this is especially true if you use the "floating" anchor method, since the flat rigging doesn't lend the support like fishing line rigged through the wing. VR Russ

a POINT OF INTEREST on RAF wire is the actual 'wire' itself is the turn buckle Like on our dear models the real RAF wire is a flat (actually diamond cross section (1 inch wide X about .125 thick at the center) and very stiff. the ends of the wire are round and threaded for the fixed turn buckle wing attachment.

I was at Duxford and asked the owner of a very nice DH Rapide about the wire and he showed me the setup and informed me how useful the RAF wire being a rod was to maintenance because not being cable there was no tension adjustment once set.(he still checked tension) The rod (RAF Wire) did not stretch or shrink with the weather.

I like the floating end technique.
Scale RAF wire in even 1/48 scale is too close to invisible to justify the effort, At that scale and lower the visual is nondistinguishable (to coin a term).

Enjoy
Captn Tommy

Good tip, thanks Russ.