On July 26, 1945, a KI-51 'Sonia' on a kamikaze mission impacted the water before 'skipping' into the Starboard side of the HMS Sussex, just forward of her aft gun turrets, at her waterline.
Due to the loss of velocity from the impact with the water, and the Sussex's armor belt, the KI-51 DID NOT penetrate the side of the Sussex but instead left a dent where it's propeller hub impacted and a ghostly outline if the rest of the aircraft;
http://i919.photobucket.com/albums/ad32/finno2/11893992_333940196729778_4408001348393938281_o_zpssmqwuo1g.jpg
I'm THINKING about building a 1:72 scale model of the section of the HMS Sussex impacted by the kamikaze the moment AFTER the aircraft impacted the ship.
Given that the ship would not have 'given' in the collision, how much of the KI-51 would likely have remained in the water following the impact???
What was the LIKELY appearance of the debris of the KI-51 following the impact?
Would some of the tail have remained intact?
Would the front of the plane disintegrated into 'tinfoil' or would it have 'accordioned'?
Given that they would have had SOME fuel left in them, how would the wings have faired?
World War II
Discuss WWII and the era directly before and after the war from 1935-1949.
Discuss WWII and the era directly before and after the war from 1935-1949.
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What remains of a KI-51 after a collision???
DUKWsinarow
New Jersey, United States
Joined: October 08, 2007
KitMaker: 124 posts
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Joined: October 08, 2007
KitMaker: 124 posts
AeroScale: 12 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 - 04:47 AM UTC
DUKWsinarow
New Jersey, United States
Joined: October 08, 2007
KitMaker: 124 posts
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Joined: October 08, 2007
KitMaker: 124 posts
AeroScale: 12 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 - 05:08 AM UTC
Due to the slower speeds involved (the KI-51 had a maximum speed of 260mph)there would presumably be more identifiable debris from the KI-51 then appears to be left by the F-4 in the following video, where it collides with a wall at 500mph;
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZjhxuhTmGk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZjhxuhTmGk
Posted: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 - 05:38 AM UTC
I recall a Baka flying bomb hit a destroyer near the bow; punched right through the thin steel of the hull, passed through and exploded dozens of yards off the side of her.
Posted: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 - 08:01 AM UTC
Hi Tyler,
A lot will depend on how soon after the collision you want to depict in your dio. Here's my thoughts based on what I know about the aircraft and what I can deduce from looking at your photo. What I know about the aircraft: The KI-51 was a robust aircraft which could operate from rougher fields than many Japanese aircraft. It had cockpit armor as it was intended as a low altitude level/dive bomber. The bomb load was carried externally. What I deduce from the photo.
1) A lot of the speed of the a/c would have been lost when striking the ocean. I'm guessing a speed of around 50 mph at impact.
2) The bomb must have been lost when it struck the ocean before impact as there is no impact mark below the fuselage.
3)The fixed landing gear was still in place after striking the ocean at full speed so I think them still being attached to the wing after impact with the ship is plausible.
4) The impact silhouette indicates the plane was flying almost perpendicular to the ship when striking it. I think the nose pieces would have broken off with the engine being driven back into the cockpit. I would think pieces of cowling and propeller blades would be visible floating nearby.
5) The crushing of the nose and pushing the engine into the cockpit would absorb much of the force of impact so the remainder of the fuselage would remain relatively intact.
6) The right wing appears to have struck the ship harder than the left wing so maybe having it broken or bent at the wing root would also be plausible.
7) Given the poor quality of the Japanese avgas at this stage of the war and the practice of only sending the kamikaze planes out with enough gas for the one way trip, I don't think burning gas is mandatory. It is also very difficult to depict in a dio. I think you would be fine with no fire being present, or maybe only smoke in the cockpit from the dislocation of the engine.
8) Think about how a car would look after striking a wall at 50 mph. That may give you some more ideas about the looks of the fuselage and rear of the plane.
Hope my thoughts are helpful. You've got a very interesting project ahead of you. Please keep us posted of your progress.
John
A lot will depend on how soon after the collision you want to depict in your dio. Here's my thoughts based on what I know about the aircraft and what I can deduce from looking at your photo. What I know about the aircraft: The KI-51 was a robust aircraft which could operate from rougher fields than many Japanese aircraft. It had cockpit armor as it was intended as a low altitude level/dive bomber. The bomb load was carried externally. What I deduce from the photo.
1) A lot of the speed of the a/c would have been lost when striking the ocean. I'm guessing a speed of around 50 mph at impact.
2) The bomb must have been lost when it struck the ocean before impact as there is no impact mark below the fuselage.
3)The fixed landing gear was still in place after striking the ocean at full speed so I think them still being attached to the wing after impact with the ship is plausible.
4) The impact silhouette indicates the plane was flying almost perpendicular to the ship when striking it. I think the nose pieces would have broken off with the engine being driven back into the cockpit. I would think pieces of cowling and propeller blades would be visible floating nearby.
5) The crushing of the nose and pushing the engine into the cockpit would absorb much of the force of impact so the remainder of the fuselage would remain relatively intact.
6) The right wing appears to have struck the ship harder than the left wing so maybe having it broken or bent at the wing root would also be plausible.
7) Given the poor quality of the Japanese avgas at this stage of the war and the practice of only sending the kamikaze planes out with enough gas for the one way trip, I don't think burning gas is mandatory. It is also very difficult to depict in a dio. I think you would be fine with no fire being present, or maybe only smoke in the cockpit from the dislocation of the engine.
8) Think about how a car would look after striking a wall at 50 mph. That may give you some more ideas about the looks of the fuselage and rear of the plane.
Hope my thoughts are helpful. You've got a very interesting project ahead of you. Please keep us posted of your progress.
John
spaarndammer
Noord-Holland, Netherlands
Joined: January 28, 2007
KitMaker: 1,945 posts
AeroScale: 388 posts
Joined: January 28, 2007
KitMaker: 1,945 posts
AeroScale: 388 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 - 01:23 PM UTC
You can of let the heavily damaged plane float next to the hull and let the pilot sit on one wing, like in this pose:
But of course it is highly unlikely that the pilot would have survived the collision. Nevertheless, I think it makes a funny scene.
Jelger
But of course it is highly unlikely that the pilot would have survived the collision. Nevertheless, I think it makes a funny scene.
Jelger
rdt1953
New Jersey, United States
Joined: February 06, 2015
KitMaker: 1,098 posts
AeroScale: 900 posts
Joined: February 06, 2015
KitMaker: 1,098 posts
AeroScale: 900 posts
Posted: Wednesday, February 24, 2016 - 09:33 PM UTC
The photo tells us a number of things.
1 . The aircraft was banked to the right upon impact. If the ship was in the same state of trim shown in the photo when impact occurred then the aircraft's right wing tip must have hit the water beforehand certainly causing yaw to some unknown degree - perhaps rotating the aircraft into the hull. This supports right wing damage or separation .
2. The center of the engine stuck the ship at or very near one of her frames as shown by the line of rivets. This being a very strong part of the ship's structure coupled with the aircraft's energy being depleted to some degree by it's previous water contact would explain the minimal damage to the ship.
3. The fact that the airframe had enough momentum to imprint the leading edges of the wings all the way to the roots and landing gear tells us that the engine with all it's mass was almost certainly pushed back into fuselage with catastrophic results for the aircrew- unless the aircraft rotated into the ship because of it's right wingtip striking the water prior to impact in which case I suppose it may be possible that the engine was sheared off to the left.
I hope this is of some help- sounds like a great modeling subject and I'll be sure to follow it . Cheers - Richard
1 . The aircraft was banked to the right upon impact. If the ship was in the same state of trim shown in the photo when impact occurred then the aircraft's right wing tip must have hit the water beforehand certainly causing yaw to some unknown degree - perhaps rotating the aircraft into the hull. This supports right wing damage or separation .
2. The center of the engine stuck the ship at or very near one of her frames as shown by the line of rivets. This being a very strong part of the ship's structure coupled with the aircraft's energy being depleted to some degree by it's previous water contact would explain the minimal damage to the ship.
3. The fact that the airframe had enough momentum to imprint the leading edges of the wings all the way to the roots and landing gear tells us that the engine with all it's mass was almost certainly pushed back into fuselage with catastrophic results for the aircrew- unless the aircraft rotated into the ship because of it's right wingtip striking the water prior to impact in which case I suppose it may be possible that the engine was sheared off to the left.
I hope this is of some help- sounds like a great modeling subject and I'll be sure to follow it . Cheers - Richard
Posted: Thursday, February 25, 2016 - 01:16 AM UTC
I took another look at the photo after my previous post. There looks like a lot of dark smudges (possibly smoke or charred hull paint) around the impact silhouette. There may have been a flash of burning gas after impact. It looks more like oily smoke versus burnt paint to me indicating a short duration burn. It seems to be centered around the fuselage/right wing root so potential engine fire.
Just another $0.02.
Just another $0.02.
Posted: Thursday, February 25, 2016 - 01:21 AM UTC
Curiosity question, was there any additional description of the collision or battle that accompanied your photo? Any damage below the water line identified at a later date?
rdt1953
New Jersey, United States
Joined: February 06, 2015
KitMaker: 1,098 posts
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Joined: February 06, 2015
KitMaker: 1,098 posts
AeroScale: 900 posts
Posted: Thursday, February 25, 2016 - 02:08 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Curiosity question, was there any additional description of the collision or battle that accompanied your photo? Any damage below the water line identified at a later date?
I was wondering the same thing - since it was stated that the aircraft "skipped off the water" there must be some eyewitness description. One thing is certain - everything forward of the wing leading edges was either obliterated or radically displaced to allow the wings to imprint from tip to root. Side note - My late Father -in-law was aboard the 731 USS Maddox in 44 during a Kamikaze hit with , as I recall , 500 lb bomb attached. Terrified at the time and saddened by the loss of shipmates he didn't like to talk of it much .