Those Brassin magazine casings do look the part and a lot easier to install then the kit ones.
Looking forward too some more progress soon.
Andy
Early Aviation
Discuss World War I and the early years of aviation thru 1934.
Discuss World War I and the early years of aviation thru 1934.
Hosted by Jim Starkweather
Review Eduard: SE.5a Wolseley Viper
betheyn
Senior Editor
#019
Joined: October 14, 2004
KitMaker: 4,560 posts
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Posted: Sunday, May 21, 2017 - 03:50 AM UTC
Looks really good, and the progress for you is astonishing ;, but it is a shame all that nice detail is pretty much hidden.
Those Brassin magazine casings do look the part and a lot easier to install then the kit ones.
Looking forward too some more progress soon.
Andy
Those Brassin magazine casings do look the part and a lot easier to install then the kit ones.
Looking forward too some more progress soon.
Andy
CaptnTommy
Joined: October 26, 2009
KitMaker: 424 posts
AeroScale: 389 posts
Posted: Sunday, May 21, 2017 - 09:32 PM UTC
My what a lovely Model.
I am curious does "Swinehund" Have red wings as well as fuselage?
2) I spent a year in the Nottingham area on the US Gov. beautiful country. GREAT aviation museums!!!
Captn Tommy
I am curious does "Swinehund" Have red wings as well as fuselage?
2) I spent a year in the Nottingham area on the US Gov. beautiful country. GREAT aviation museums!!!
Captn Tommy
Merlin
Senior Editor#017
Joined: June 11, 2003
KitMaker: 17,582 posts
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Posted: Monday, May 22, 2017 - 12:27 AM UTC
Quoted Text
My what a lovely Model.
I am curious does "Swinehund" Have red wings as well as fuselage?
2) I spent a year in the Nottingham area on the US Gov. beautiful country. GREAT aviation museums!!!
Captn Tommy
Hi Tom
Many thanks for the kind words about the model and Old Blighty.
Duncan Grinnell-Milne's SE.5a is shown with just the fuselage painted red in Eduard's instructions.
I believe he flew the same aircraft with standard camouflage prior to the Armistice. Not having any reference photos of the actual machine to go by, I'm shying away from it for my build; basically, I don't know how carefully (or otherwise) the red over-painting was done, so I don't want to do a pristine job and find out later that the original was rough and ready, or visa versa.
However, if anyone would like to post some shots of "Schweinhund" here, I'm still very open to being persuaded to do the scheme.
As we've noted in the forum, Burden's aircraft is a bit of a minefield, so I reckon it'll be a toss up between Lt. Elliot's 85 Sqn. aircraft (which I do have a couple of photos of) or one of the American schemes. Shout now, if anyone has a particular preference.
All the best
Rowan
JackG
Joined: May 28, 2006
KitMaker: 172 posts
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Posted: Monday, May 22, 2017 - 12:44 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I am curious does "Swinehund" Have red wings as well as fuselage?
Captn Tommy
Depends on what references are correct, but according to an interview with said pilot, he states he was not allowed to paint the whole aircraft red until after the armistice. The all red aircraft may also have been emblazoned with Swinehund III.
Jessie_C
Joined: September 03, 2009
KitMaker: 6,965 posts
AeroScale: 6,247 posts
Posted: Monday, May 22, 2017 - 06:36 AM UTC
Okay, that clinches it.
Does anyone want to buy a couple of Roden Se.5s? I've got one Hisso and one Viper powered. Never had a part off the sprues; completely near mint condition!
They're going cheap, and that's cutting me own throat!
Does anyone want to buy a couple of Roden Se.5s? I've got one Hisso and one Viper powered. Never had a part off the sprues; completely near mint condition!
They're going cheap, and that's cutting me own throat!
MerlinV
Joined: November 26, 2006
KitMaker: 608 posts
AeroScale: 602 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 23, 2017 - 04:17 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Okay, that clinches it.
Does anyone want to buy a couple of Roden Se.5s? I've got one Hisso and one Viper powered. Never had a part off the sprues; completely near mint condition!
They're going cheap, and that's cutting me own throat!
Why? The Roden kits are quite nice... in all the scales. True, they don't have the finesse of the Eduard mouldings, but they still make a nice model!
Cheers,
Hugh
CaptnTommy
Joined: October 26, 2009
KitMaker: 424 posts
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Posted: Tuesday, May 23, 2017 - 06:02 PM UTC
ON THE RED WINGS
I think the idea of the green wings during the war would be a logical call. and Red Wings after the war for display purposes.
I would want to make sure the 'youngsters' didn't mistake me for a Hun.
I am actually surprised he got away with the red fuselage.
Captn Tommy
I think the idea of the green wings during the war would be a logical call. and Red Wings after the war for display purposes.
I would want to make sure the 'youngsters' didn't mistake me for a Hun.
I am actually surprised he got away with the red fuselage.
Captn Tommy
JackFlash
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,669 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 - 03:14 AM UTC
Quoted Text
ON THE RED WINGS
I think the idea of the green wings during the war would be a logical call. and Red Wings after the war for display purposes.
I would want to make sure the 'youngsters' didn't mistake me for a Hun. I am actually surprised he got away with the red fuselage.
Captn Tommy
??? Red wings?,red fuselage before the EOW?
CaptnTommy
Joined: October 26, 2009
KitMaker: 424 posts
AeroScale: 389 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 24, 2017 - 05:40 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextON THE RED WINGS
I think the idea of the green wings during the war would be a logical call. and Red Wings after the war for display purposes.
I would want to make sure the 'youngsters' didn't mistake me for a Hun. I am actually surprised he got away with the red fuselage.
Captn Tommy
??? Red wings?,red fuselage before the EOW?
Yes... Remember in WWII the red disappeared instantly from the American insignia.
Besides that, how did he get away with it with RAF Command??
There must be a story an that, buried in the mythos.
Captn Tommy
Merlin
Senior Editor#017
Joined: June 11, 2003
KitMaker: 17,582 posts
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Posted: Thursday, May 25, 2017 - 02:09 AM UTC
Hi again
You can see why I'm shying away from Duncan Grinnell-Milne's mount.
If there's doubt over the extent to which it was painted red or when (as I noted early, what little I've read points to it being a post-Armistice scheme), trying to guess how neatly the paint-job might have been applied seems likely to be asking for tears after the build's finished.
All the best
Rowan
You can see why I'm shying away from Duncan Grinnell-Milne's mount.
If there's doubt over the extent to which it was painted red or when (as I noted early, what little I've read points to it being a post-Armistice scheme), trying to guess how neatly the paint-job might have been applied seems likely to be asking for tears after the build's finished.All the best
Rowan
JackFlash
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,669 posts
AeroScale: 11,011 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 27, 2017 - 01:05 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Yes... Remember in WWII the red disappeared instantly from the American insignia. Besides that, how did he get away with it with RAF Command?? There must be a story an that, buried in the mythos.
Captn Tommy
WWII?? Red disappeared instantly from American insignia?
Merlin
Senior Editor#017
Joined: June 11, 2003
KitMaker: 17,582 posts
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Posted: Monday, May 29, 2017 - 03:40 PM UTC
Hi again
I little update on the build.
I've used the Brassin gun set and it scores on two important points over the kit's Vickers. One is obviously the level of detail, but what's really handy is that the barrel is separate so you can install it after the top decking is fitted and you've painted the fuselage:
The body of the Vickers fits perfectly into the resin mount and the notch in the instrument panel. In this shot you can also see the engine test-fitted. You could add more detail, but it will be completely hidden unless you leave the cowls off:
With the top decking ready to go on, you hit the thorny issue of seams. The fit is good, but you still get a couple of awkward seams to hide - and one of them unfortunately runs right through some raised rivet detail that'll be hard to replicate precisely (luckily it'll be under the top wing):
Here's the result of a first pass at blending the seams. It'll still need a touch of filler. You'll want to protect the delicate stitching while you work on the seam around the cockpit top decking. The horizontal tail is test-fitted and everything is sitting nice and square. I've reduced the rib detail on the wings and tail a fair, but you can see it's still quite pronounced, so I'll probably have a bit more of a tinker:
Ironically, the effect of the stringers behind the cockpit is arguably a bit too subtle, blending smoothly to nothing instead of having a clear stop.
I'm not too keen on the way Eduard have depicted the baggage compartment with a raised line. It looks a bit clumsy compared with some of their other detailing:
I think I'll re-scribe it to look more like the shot in the Vintage Aviator's Walkaround.
So, the next step is to add a little filler to the seams and leave it to cure thoroughly.
All the best
Rowan
I little update on the build.
I've used the Brassin gun set and it scores on two important points over the kit's Vickers. One is obviously the level of detail, but what's really handy is that the barrel is separate so you can install it after the top decking is fitted and you've painted the fuselage:
The body of the Vickers fits perfectly into the resin mount and the notch in the instrument panel. In this shot you can also see the engine test-fitted. You could add more detail, but it will be completely hidden unless you leave the cowls off:
With the top decking ready to go on, you hit the thorny issue of seams. The fit is good, but you still get a couple of awkward seams to hide - and one of them unfortunately runs right through some raised rivet detail that'll be hard to replicate precisely (luckily it'll be under the top wing):
Here's the result of a first pass at blending the seams. It'll still need a touch of filler. You'll want to protect the delicate stitching while you work on the seam around the cockpit top decking. The horizontal tail is test-fitted and everything is sitting nice and square. I've reduced the rib detail on the wings and tail a fair, but you can see it's still quite pronounced, so I'll probably have a bit more of a tinker:
Ironically, the effect of the stringers behind the cockpit is arguably a bit too subtle, blending smoothly to nothing instead of having a clear stop.
I'm not too keen on the way Eduard have depicted the baggage compartment with a raised line. It looks a bit clumsy compared with some of their other detailing:
I think I'll re-scribe it to look more like the shot in the Vintage Aviator's Walkaround.
So, the next step is to add a little filler to the seams and leave it to cure thoroughly.
All the best
Rowan
JackG
Joined: May 28, 2006
KitMaker: 172 posts
AeroScale: 26 posts
Posted: Monday, May 29, 2017 - 07:52 PM UTC
Looking mighty fine there, Rowan. You've got me convinced that the Brassin gun set is a worth while addition.
It is unfortunate that such a good looking kit is interspersed with mediocre detail, like that baggage door. What was Eduard thinking, or maybe they did not complete their thoughts? Something similar is happening on the underside, and the partial spokes on the wheel covers also look to be 'unfinished business'. I've also read the provided PE seatbelts are of the post war style.
It is unfortunate that such a good looking kit is interspersed with mediocre detail, like that baggage door. What was Eduard thinking, or maybe they did not complete their thoughts? Something similar is happening on the underside, and the partial spokes on the wheel covers also look to be 'unfinished business'. I've also read the provided PE seatbelts are of the post war style.
Merlin
Senior Editor#017
Joined: June 11, 2003
KitMaker: 17,582 posts
AeroScale: 12,795 posts
Posted: Monday, May 29, 2017 - 11:29 PM UTC
Cheers Jack
It's coming along, and is certainly an enjoyable build.
I compromised on the seat harness by using Eduard's lap belts and filling the slots for the shoulder straps. It would probably be worth fitting some wider lap belts as Wingnut Wings show, but it's worth noting they only state in their instructions that a four-point Sutton harness wouldn't normally be seen in a wartime machine.
All the best
Rowan
It's coming along, and is certainly an enjoyable build.
I compromised on the seat harness by using Eduard's lap belts and filling the slots for the shoulder straps. It would probably be worth fitting some wider lap belts as Wingnut Wings show, but it's worth noting they only state in their instructions that a four-point Sutton harness wouldn't normally be seen in a wartime machine.
All the best
Rowan
JackFlash
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,669 posts
AeroScale: 11,011 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 - 04:34 AM UTC
Quoted Text
". . .it's worth noting they only state in their instructions that a four-point Sutton harness wouldn't normally be seen in a wartime machine. . .Rowan
Can you point that out? Where in the instructions?
Merlin
Senior Editor#017
Joined: June 11, 2003
KitMaker: 17,582 posts
AeroScale: 12,795 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 - 11:15 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted Text". . .it's worth noting they only state in their instructions that a four-point Sutton harness wouldn't normally be seen in a wartime machine. . .Rowan
Can you point that out? Where in the instructions?
Hi Stephen
Along with the reference photo on page 7.
The next few days are looking busy on the work and domestic fronts, so I probably won't get a chance to look in often or make much progress on the build before my day off on Sunday.
All the best
Rowan
CaptnTommy
Joined: October 26, 2009
KitMaker: 424 posts
AeroScale: 389 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 - 09:19 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Quoted TextYes... Remember in WWII the red disappeared instantly from the American insignia. Besides that, how did he get away with it with RAF Command?? There must be a story an that, buried in the mythos.
Captn Tommy
WWII?? Red disappeared instantly from American insignia?
From 1919 to January 1942 the wing insignia was blue circle, white star, red spot/center with the red filling the center of the star to the inner points.
That red Center disappeared.
Captn Tommy
JackG
Joined: May 28, 2006
KitMaker: 172 posts
AeroScale: 26 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 30, 2017 - 09:34 PM UTC
The red disc was removed from American insignia so as not be confused with the Japanese Hinomaru. For the same reason, the RAF removed their red centers from roundels, but only for aircraft deployed in the Pacific theater.
--------------------------
About the Sutton seatbelts with Eduard's Se.5a, for the most part they are correct after some searching. That set up replaced the wide lap belts sometime in 1918 while the war was still being waged - just haven't been able to pinpoint an exact date.
--------------------------
About the Sutton seatbelts with Eduard's Se.5a, for the most part they are correct after some searching. That set up replaced the wide lap belts sometime in 1918 while the war was still being waged - just haven't been able to pinpoint an exact date.
Merlin
Senior Editor#017
Joined: June 11, 2003
KitMaker: 17,582 posts
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Posted: Wednesday, May 31, 2017 - 01:13 AM UTC
Cheers Jack
Many thanks for the fresh info. So, I almost certainly messed up mixing the belts - but what's done is done. I probably could still tweak the little bleeders out, but that might not go well...
So, I'll know they're "wrong" - and, of course, anyone reading this thread - Ahh the joys of modelling with an audience!
To both you and Tom - I didn't quite understand why Stephen seemed so flummoxed by the reference to ditching the red in US WW2 insignia - hence not chipping in. It seemed a fair enough analogy to me - maybe "instantly" was a tad overstated (it took until the tendency of US pilots in the Pacific Theatre to shoot at anything wearing red in their markings (however small) became apparent), but I got the point OK; sporting a red "flying circus" type scheme wouldn't have been the brightest idea for a British pilot before the Armistice. As I say, what I've read indicates that Duncan Grinnell-Milne "got away" with his repaint after the cessation of hostilities.
Checking the rota at work today, it's more of a mess than I'd feared - so... hopefully an update on Sunday... if not, it'll be the week after.
All the best
Rowan
Many thanks for the fresh info. So, I almost certainly messed up mixing the belts - but what's done is done. I probably could still tweak the little bleeders out, but that might not go well...
So, I'll know they're "wrong" - and, of course, anyone reading this thread - Ahh the joys of modelling with an audience!
To both you and Tom - I didn't quite understand why Stephen seemed so flummoxed by the reference to ditching the red in US WW2 insignia - hence not chipping in. It seemed a fair enough analogy to me - maybe "instantly" was a tad overstated (it took until the tendency of US pilots in the Pacific Theatre to shoot at anything wearing red in their markings (however small) became apparent), but I got the point OK; sporting a red "flying circus" type scheme wouldn't have been the brightest idea for a British pilot before the Armistice. As I say, what I've read indicates that Duncan Grinnell-Milne "got away" with his repaint after the cessation of hostilities.
Checking the rota at work today, it's more of a mess than I'd feared - so... hopefully an update on Sunday... if not, it'll be the week after.
All the best
Rowan
JackG
Joined: May 28, 2006
KitMaker: 172 posts
AeroScale: 26 posts
Posted: Wednesday, May 31, 2017 - 11:48 AM UTC
I think it's fine to just have lap belts on the Se.5a - though they should be quite wide I'm guessing.
Over at the Aerodrome forum, the late Dan-San Abbott mentioned that he had a diagram of the Se.5a with the Sutton A type harness, dated April 1918. I'm guessing this is what Eduard have given us.
Over at the Aerodrome forum, the late Dan-San Abbott mentioned that he had a diagram of the Se.5a with the Sutton A type harness, dated April 1918. I'm guessing this is what Eduard have given us.
Merlin
Senior Editor#017
Joined: June 11, 2003
KitMaker: 17,582 posts
AeroScale: 12,795 posts
Posted: Monday, June 19, 2017 - 01:00 AM UTC
Quoted Text
I think it's fine to just have lap belts on the Se.5a - though they should be quite wide I'm guessing.
Over at the Aerodrome forum, the late Dan-San Abbott mentioned that he had a diagram of the Se.5a with the Sutton A type harness, dated April 1918. I'm guessing this is what Eduard have given us.
Hi again Jack
I'm afraid my skinny lap-belts will have to do this time.
It's looking like I might actually get a chance to get back to this little beastie tomorrow - an update is long overdue. Somehow, there are always fresh reviews to tackle (it hasn't let up so far, despite stepping down as Managing Editor! LOL!), but I'm itching to make a bit more progress on this and Copper State's F.K.8.
All the best
Rowan
Familyman
Joined: January 11, 2007
KitMaker: 88 posts
AeroScale: 87 posts
Posted: Monday, June 19, 2017 - 10:46 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Okay, that clinches it.
Does anyone want to buy a couple of Roden Se.5s? I've got one Hisso and one Viper powered. Never had a part off the sprues; completely near mint condition!
They're going cheap, and that's cutting me own throat!
I've already built mine! And still, I bought also the Eduard Royal Class box. And - of course - I've got the WnW kit in my stash
Mikko
Merlin
Senior Editor#017
Joined: June 11, 2003
KitMaker: 17,582 posts
AeroScale: 12,795 posts
Posted: Monday, June 19, 2017 - 11:53 AM UTC
Hi Mikko
They look fantastic! Yes - the WNW kit is staring at me from the shelf too! That's a definite one to tackle one day soon-ish...
All the best
Rowan
They look fantastic!
Yes - the WNW kit is staring at me from the shelf too! That's a definite one to tackle one day soon-ish... All the best
Rowan
MichaelSatin
Campaigns AdministratorJoined: January 19, 2008
KitMaker: 3,909 posts
AeroScale: 2,904 posts
Posted: Monday, June 19, 2017 - 04:39 PM UTC
The Wingnut kits are terrible, you should both definitely get rid of yours. I'll be happy to take them off your hands for you and won't even charge you for the favor. See what a great guy I am? 
Seriously, nice work there, Rowan; and you too Mikko!
Michael
Seriously, nice work there, Rowan; and you too Mikko!
Michael
Merlin
Senior Editor#017
Joined: June 11, 2003
KitMaker: 17,582 posts
AeroScale: 12,795 posts
Posted: Tuesday, June 20, 2017 - 12:48 AM UTC
Cheers Michael
Sorry - I'll have to pass on your generous offer to give my WNW SE5a a home.
I did manage to finally spend a couple of hours at the workbench today, but the F.K.8 cornered my attention.
All the best
Rowan
Sorry - I'll have to pass on your generous offer to give my WNW SE5a a home.
I did manage to finally spend a couple of hours at the workbench today, but the F.K.8 cornered my attention.
All the best
Rowan
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