About the shading/mottling I'm yet not sure if I feel comfotably with it. Might try this myself with less contrast but still wonder how to give the markings the same effect after all was done?
Anyway, great work on your HC, Joel !
Thomas
World War II
Discuss WWII and the era directly before and after the war from 1935-1949.
Discuss WWII and the era directly before and after the war from 1935-1949.
Hosted by Rowan Baylis
1/48 scale Eduard Grumman F6F-3 Hellcat
goodn8
Joined: October 12, 2008
KitMaker: 709 posts
AeroScale: 651 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 07, 2017 - 11:13 PM UTC
Very nice additional work on the tank!
About the shading/mottling I'm yet not sure if I feel comfotably with it. Might try this myself with less contrast but still wonder how to give the markings the same effect after all was done?
Anyway, great work on your HC, Joel !
Thomas
About the shading/mottling I'm yet not sure if I feel comfotably with it. Might try this myself with less contrast but still wonder how to give the markings the same effect after all was done?
Anyway, great work on your HC, Joel !
Thomas
Joel_W
Associate Editor
Joined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 08, 2017 - 12:24 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi Joel, I'm not sure how good my figure painting skills are, but I am going to apply some of the techniques I use and see how it looks on an aircraft. By the way, your "Scooter" looks fantastic!
Ernest
Ernest,
Thanks for the thumbs up on the Scooter. It was a major effort. You can't see it in those pictures but I removed the steps for the slats in both wings and actually managed to keep the proper angle. I didn't do that with my Eduard kit and that's one thing that really bothers me to this day.
Black basing is very easy to do. You really can't screw it up unless you apply to much paint per color coat, and too many coats. Just go with light, well thinned paint.
Another technique is just go with a black or dark primer coat, but keep it sort of uneven. The effect is less, but there is an effect.
Joel
Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 08, 2017 - 12:28 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Very nice additional work on the tank!
About the shading/mottling I'm yet not sure if I feel comfotably with it. Might try this myself with less contrast but still wonder how to give the markings the same effect after all was done?
Anyway, great work on your HC, Joel !
Thomas
Thomas,
The tanks actually came out better then I thought it would.
As for the markings taking on the same look, if you use masks, it's as easy as any other lightly applied color coat. Decals are a whole different issue. You just need to spend enough time during the weathering process to dirty up and fade those bright shiny colors. Take a look at the Scooter pics and you'll see that the decals are weathered as well.
Joel
greif8
Joined: January 17, 2006
KitMaker: 673 posts
AeroScale: 492 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 09, 2017 - 10:48 PM UTC
Hi Joel, I agree that black basing is pretty fool proof. I used it on the Zero I built last year and thought the effect turned out pretty well. I did not use it on the Dauntless, because I wanted to see if what several people had told me that the MRP paints do not need any priming (they don't), and to try out the method I described above. It should be interesting to see how that turns out.
Ernest
Ernest
Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Friday, November 10, 2017 - 12:32 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi Joel, I agree that black basing is pretty fool proof. I used it on the Zero I built last year and thought the effect turned out pretty well. I did not use it on the Dauntless, because I wanted to see if what several people had told me that the MRP paints do not need any priming (they don't), and to try out the method I described above. It should be interesting to see how that turns out.
Ernest
Ernest,
MRP paints being lacquer based really don't need primer for adhesion issues, but when I shoot them for interior colors I use the primer mainly to protect the raw plastic from crazing.
I just finished shooting the Dark Sea Blue, so it's two colors down and one to go hopefully tomorrow. Work has been a really time killer this past week, so I've got literally nothing done paint wise.
the Dark Sea Blue ANA 602/FS 25042 came out exactly as I hoped it would with the mottling effect. I took a few grab pics and my fears of it not showing up anything like in real life also proved to be the case. The color still looks a little to uniform, so I'll do a coat or two of post shading as part of the painting process.
Joel
Antilles
Joined: March 22, 2015
KitMaker: 671 posts
AeroScale: 614 posts
Posted: Friday, November 10, 2017 - 03:17 AM UTC
Joel,
nicely detailed work on the Hellcat. The black mottling seems really very promising and the results on the Skyhawk and Wildcat are great. I will have to try this method next time.
Oliver
nicely detailed work on the Hellcat. The black mottling seems really very promising and the results on the Skyhawk and Wildcat are great. I will have to try this method next time.
Oliver
Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Friday, November 10, 2017 - 03:55 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Joel,
nicely detailed work on the Hellcat. The black mottling seems really very promising and the results on the Skyhawk and Wildcat are great. I will have to try this method next time.
Oliver
Oliver,
Thanks for stopping by and checking out my Cat build to date. I'll be posting the in a few days with the basic camo paint scheme done.
Joel
Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 - 12:23 AM UTC
Took about a week to finish the base painting of the tri color camo paint scheme. I started off with a 2:3 ratio of Mig Ammo Satin White thinned with Tamiya Yellow Cap, and AB'd at a flow rate of 14-16 psi. After several lite coats I was happy with the mottling effect I had achieved.
I let that dry for a day as I had decided on using the worm method of masking for soft demarcation lines. Rather then Blu-Tac, I've been using Silly Putty for the last few years without any issues. Sticks better, and doesn't leave any oily residue as I've read every so often.
Next color I AB'd was the Sea Blue ANA 606 with the closed accepted FS match being 25042. I let that dry for a day, then more Silly string worms and I shot the Intermediate Blue/Gray ANA 608/FS 25042.
After I cleaned my AB, I removed the Tamiya tape and worms. The demarcation line looked ok, but I had just plain missed it in a few areas. So l've been touching up various spots and areas AB'ing free hand, and little by little it's looking like it should. I still have one area of Intermediate Blue to re-due a 3rd time as the re-due is brighter then the rest of the area, which doesn't make much sense. I'll concentrate on feathering out the paint patch, but leave the final blending for the weathering process.
The random marbling is clearly visible in the Sea blue, but really doesn't show up at all in the Intermediate Blue. I'm going to assume that I applied to many coats of paint.
As I said, I have a little more touch up work to do over the next day or so, then Gloss coat with Testors Glosscoat and start the decaling process.
Joel
I let that dry for a day as I had decided on using the worm method of masking for soft demarcation lines. Rather then Blu-Tac, I've been using Silly Putty for the last few years without any issues. Sticks better, and doesn't leave any oily residue as I've read every so often.
Next color I AB'd was the Sea Blue ANA 606 with the closed accepted FS match being 25042. I let that dry for a day, then more Silly string worms and I shot the Intermediate Blue/Gray ANA 608/FS 25042.
After I cleaned my AB, I removed the Tamiya tape and worms. The demarcation line looked ok, but I had just plain missed it in a few areas. So l've been touching up various spots and areas AB'ing free hand, and little by little it's looking like it should. I still have one area of Intermediate Blue to re-due a 3rd time as the re-due is brighter then the rest of the area, which doesn't make much sense. I'll concentrate on feathering out the paint patch, but leave the final blending for the weathering process.
The random marbling is clearly visible in the Sea blue, but really doesn't show up at all in the Intermediate Blue. I'm going to assume that I applied to many coats of paint.
As I said, I have a little more touch up work to do over the next day or so, then Gloss coat with Testors Glosscoat and start the decaling process.
Joel
Merlin
Senior Editor
#017
Joined: June 11, 2003
KitMaker: 17,582 posts
AeroScale: 12,795 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 - 03:17 AM UTC
Hi Joel
Nice progress!
It also reminds me that I have got some Silly Putty somewhere (it used to be called Potty Putty here in the UK when I was a kid). I've also used Play-Doh recently (having picked some up at a bargain basement price), and it also doesn't leave a residue.
I really do like the random effect of your pre-mottle. I might try to combine it with pre-shaded panel lines on a build (the Fw 190?... hmmm
). There's literally no end to the techniques worth trying, is there? - that's the joy of modelling. 
All the best
Rowan
Nice progress!
It also reminds me that I have got some Silly Putty somewhere (it used to be called Potty Putty here in the UK when I was a kid). I've also used Play-Doh recently (having picked some up at a bargain basement price), and it also doesn't leave a residue. I really do like the random effect of your pre-mottle. I might try to combine it with pre-shaded panel lines on a build (the Fw 190?... hmmm
). There's literally no end to the techniques worth trying, is there? - that's the joy of modelling. All the best
Rowan
thegirl
Joined: January 19, 2008
KitMaker: 6,743 posts
AeroScale: 6,151 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 - 06:17 AM UTC
She is starting to look might pretty Joel , well done so far 
Terri
Terri
Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Tuesday, November 14, 2017 - 06:54 AM UTC
Quoted Text
She is starting to look might pretty Joel , well done so far
Terri
Terri,
Much appreciated. Nothing like a coat of paint to really kick up one's mojo, as it's always a major step towards the finish line.
Joel
Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Wednesday, November 15, 2017 - 02:38 AM UTC
I sent my brother a set of the grab pictures I posted yesterday, and his response as I knew it would be was constructive but direct. We don't pull any "punches" when it comes to critiquing each others modeling.
I took all of his comments seriously, and I did have some concerns. So I compared the pictures I posted to the model on my bench. And there is a visible difference in both the color intensity of the Sea blue and the marbling effect. My conclusion is that for grabs I've been using my flash as the main light source. it's fine for build pics but not for paint, as my Nikon makes the Sea Blue a little to dark and contrasty, as well making the marbling to light.
1st thing I did was re-Airbrush the white demarcation line on the bottom of the Horizontal Stabilizers as he pointed out their general inaccuracies. Looks shall we say less then stellar. Step one was to bring it back to a more tradition free hand line. Since I need to mask even though I'll free hand it, I'll try for that slight loop tomorrow. Next thing I did was to add a filter to the top of the wings and the Sea blue on the fuselage. I used 6 drops of Sea Blue/1 drop of White/12 drops of Tamiya Yellow cap/ & 2 drops of Winsor & Newton flow Enhancer, then applied a light coat over the wings to soften the marbling even further. I got my butt out of my chair, and used my tripod, 2 light setup and reshot a few pictures. Now the pictures of the wings look exactly like what I see up close and personal. But you'll notice that the sides of the fuselage still look a little darkish.
Joel
I took all of his comments seriously, and I did have some concerns. So I compared the pictures I posted to the model on my bench. And there is a visible difference in both the color intensity of the Sea blue and the marbling effect. My conclusion is that for grabs I've been using my flash as the main light source. it's fine for build pics but not for paint, as my Nikon makes the Sea Blue a little to dark and contrasty, as well making the marbling to light.
1st thing I did was re-Airbrush the white demarcation line on the bottom of the Horizontal Stabilizers as he pointed out their general inaccuracies. Looks shall we say less then stellar. Step one was to bring it back to a more tradition free hand line. Since I need to mask even though I'll free hand it, I'll try for that slight loop tomorrow. Next thing I did was to add a filter to the top of the wings and the Sea blue on the fuselage. I used 6 drops of Sea Blue/1 drop of White/12 drops of Tamiya Yellow cap/ & 2 drops of Winsor & Newton flow Enhancer, then applied a light coat over the wings to soften the marbling even further. I got my butt out of my chair, and used my tripod, 2 light setup and reshot a few pictures. Now the pictures of the wings look exactly like what I see up close and personal. But you'll notice that the sides of the fuselage still look a little darkish.
Joel
thegirl
Joined: January 19, 2008
KitMaker: 6,743 posts
AeroScale: 6,151 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 16, 2017 - 05:28 AM UTC
Now that is much better Joel .
Terri
Terri
Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Thursday, November 16, 2017 - 07:53 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Now that is much better Joel .
Terri
Terri,
Thanks for checking out the updated paint scheme. I'm getting closer. Hopefully, the weathering will even do more.
Joel
thegirl
Joined: January 19, 2008
KitMaker: 6,743 posts
AeroScale: 6,151 posts
Posted: Friday, November 17, 2017 - 05:36 AM UTC
Your welcome Joel always a joy watching your builds as your skills develop more and more .
You are on the right path and I'm sure your weathering will tie it all in .
Terri
You are on the right path and I'm sure your weathering will tie it all in .
Terri
Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Friday, November 17, 2017 - 07:07 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Your welcome Joel always a joy watching your builds as your skills develop more and more .
You are on the right path and I'm sure your weathering will tie it all in .
Terri
Terri,
Thanks for the vote of confidence. but only time will tell.
Joel
rdt1953
Joined: February 06, 2015
KitMaker: 1,098 posts
AeroScale: 900 posts
Posted: Friday, November 17, 2017 - 07:55 AM UTC
Looks good to me Joel - as you may recall I'm no stranger to paint woes myself.
Keep at it.
Richard
Keep at it.
Richard
JPTRR
Managing Editor#051
Joined: December 21, 2002
KitMaker: 7,772 posts
AeroScale: 3,175 posts
Posted: Friday, November 17, 2017 - 08:02 AM UTC
Joel,
Welcome back! We all forgive you for steppin' out on us.
Man, that instrument panel - aaahhhhhhhhh
Looking forward to the next set of photos.
Welcome back! We all forgive you for steppin' out on us.
Man, that instrument panel - aaahhhhhhhhh
Looking forward to the next set of photos.
c4willy
#305
Joined: February 01, 2006
KitMaker: 1,673 posts
AeroScale: 1,517 posts
Posted: Friday, November 17, 2017 - 09:58 AM UTC
Joel buddy! Tres magnifique! Welcome back my friend pleased to see you doing what you love doing.
Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Friday, November 17, 2017 - 10:55 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Looks good to me Joel - as you may recall I'm no stranger to paint woes myself.
Keep at it.
Richard
Richard,
I do seam to recall that you're in my camp when it comes to painting issues. but you always found away to brilliantly created a proper and well done camo paint scheme.
Joel
Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Friday, November 17, 2017 - 10:57 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Joel,
Welcome back! We all forgive you for steppin' out on us.
Man, that instrument panel - aaahhhhhhhhh
Looking forward to the next set of photos.
Fred,
Thanks my friend for those warm words of welcome. It's much appreciated.
Thank goodness that the IP in 1:1 scale and buried in the pit shadows does blend very well with the correct shade of Interior Green.
Joel
Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Friday, November 17, 2017 - 10:58 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Joel buddy! Tres magnifique! Welcome back my friend pleased to see you doing what you love doing.
Chris,
Why thank you sir for those most kind words. Both on my coming back, and on my progress in the Cat build.
Joel
Merlin
Senior Editor#017
Joined: June 11, 2003
KitMaker: 17,582 posts
AeroScale: 12,795 posts
Posted: Saturday, November 18, 2017 - 04:01 AM UTC
Hi again Joel
Yep - looking good. The colour-shift in the photos makes it hard to really judge the change for the rest of us, but the crucial factor is that you are seeing a better representation on screen of the model in front of you. Like we've discussed in PMs, there's a compromise between building for the eye and for photos - I hit it with my Fw 190 when I realised that all my dry-brush highlighting had, basically, vanished in the photos. So, I re-did it - but not the point where I was uncomfortable to the naked eye.
As I say, I really do like the random quality of what you call black-basing - I get a bit of the same as a "post-effect" with oil paint staining - so I may well have a play on my '190 build.
All the best
Rowan
Yep - looking good.
The colour-shift in the photos makes it hard to really judge the change for the rest of us, but the crucial factor is that you are seeing a better representation on screen of the model in front of you. Like we've discussed in PMs, there's a compromise between building for the eye and for photos - I hit it with my Fw 190 when I realised that all my dry-brush highlighting had, basically, vanished in the photos. So, I re-did it - but not the point where I was uncomfortable to the naked eye.As I say, I really do like the random quality of what you call black-basing - I get a bit of the same as a "post-effect" with oil paint staining - so I may well have a play on my '190 build.
All the best
Rowan
Joel_W
Associate EditorJoined: December 04, 2010
KitMaker: 11,666 posts
AeroScale: 7,410 posts
Posted: Saturday, November 18, 2017 - 06:46 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hi again Joel
Yep - looking good.
As I say, I really do like the random quality of what you call black-basing - I get a bit of the same as a "post-effect" with oil paint staining - so I may well have a play on my '190 build.
All the best
Rowan
Rowan,
you hit it right on the head with the issue of up close and personal vs on screen, and it's been driving me crazy because of the slight variations in tones. I don't want to get to the point where it's "perfect" on the screen, but way over done when seen in person, as the Cat is ear marked as one of my entries for the Noreastcon and Mosquitocon next year. It's only been 37 years since I last entered any IPMS contest. I think with proper lighting I've reached the best balance I can achieve.
Oil washes do the same things as Black Basing, which is sort of a pre weathering technique that requires much less of a skill set, as you can easily correct errors.
I'm really looking forward to seeing your Fw 190 reach the painting stage.
Joel
Scrodes
Joined: July 22, 2012
KitMaker: 771 posts
AeroScale: 763 posts
Posted: Saturday, November 18, 2017 - 06:56 AM UTC
I can never decide if I want to use an actual white on the belly of Tri-color painted planes. It always looks so wrong, but this one's coming out great!
I always notice that even the colour profiles tend to have a more gray underside - even the colour one in the Tamiya 32nd scale Corsair. It amuses me because on the same sheet they call out for white
Yes I know it's supposed to be white..
I always notice that even the colour profiles tend to have a more gray underside - even the colour one in the Tamiya 32nd scale Corsair. It amuses me because on the same sheet they call out for white
Yes I know it's supposed to be white..
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