General Aircraft
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This forum is for general aircraft modelling discussions.
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Actual louvers
maxmwill
Alabama, United States
Joined: August 24, 2011
KitMaker: 334 posts
AeroScale: 291 posts
Joined: August 24, 2011
KitMaker: 334 posts
AeroScale: 291 posts
Posted: Friday, May 18, 2018 - 11:06 AM UTC
This might be a dumb question, but does anyone make resin louvers that look like actual louvers? I got an email from Archer Fine Transfers, an outfit that advertises louvers, so I ordered a sheet, and I found the print of louvers, not resin replicas. So, I have to ask, as I have been looking at a scratch project that has louvers, and I'd thought that these would work.
Kevlar06
Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
AeroScale: 833 posts
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
AeroScale: 833 posts
Posted: Friday, May 18, 2018 - 11:25 AM UTC
Max,
It depends on what the louvers are for. Eduard, RB, Aber, and Part all make photo etch sets with louvers included, for specific aircraft or vehicles. But if you are looking for generic sets of louvers, I don’t think anyone makes sets like that. There are just to many types out there— slanted louvers (right or left), reversed (inside vs. outside), large, small, medium, narrow and wide spacing— etc. . It would help to know the subject being modeled too. There are several ways to model louvers as well— lead or aluminum foil, styrene strip over rectangular holes, or just carving using special tools. Archer makes small scale louvers in varying size which are printed resin on decal paper— they work well for 1/72 and 1/48, but are not “see through”.
VR, Russ
It depends on what the louvers are for. Eduard, RB, Aber, and Part all make photo etch sets with louvers included, for specific aircraft or vehicles. But if you are looking for generic sets of louvers, I don’t think anyone makes sets like that. There are just to many types out there— slanted louvers (right or left), reversed (inside vs. outside), large, small, medium, narrow and wide spacing— etc. . It would help to know the subject being modeled too. There are several ways to model louvers as well— lead or aluminum foil, styrene strip over rectangular holes, or just carving using special tools. Archer makes small scale louvers in varying size which are printed resin on decal paper— they work well for 1/72 and 1/48, but are not “see through”.
VR, Russ
maxmwill
Alabama, United States
Joined: August 24, 2011
KitMaker: 334 posts
AeroScale: 291 posts
Joined: August 24, 2011
KitMaker: 334 posts
AeroScale: 291 posts
Posted: Friday, May 18, 2018 - 12:12 PM UTC
Well, I've a couple, both in 1/48, a Curtiss Autoplane, and a Couzinet 70/71. Just found some good info on the Couzinet, including lots of louver shots.
I figured I might have to go the .005 brass shim route, complete with mold to tap shim stock onto, because I'd rather go to the trouble of metal working, because otherwise it'd look wrong to me.
But then, at the same time, I'm wondering if I could fashion louvers of various sizes for various aircraft, and possibly market them. Yes, it'd be tedious work, until I was able to machine steel molds, then it'd be simply a matter of setting things up. Besides, can't be much more difficult than cutting a set of end ribs for a 727, where you carve a mold out of a block of maple, then pound a sheet of soft aluminum until formed, then send out for hardening.
I figured I might have to go the .005 brass shim route, complete with mold to tap shim stock onto, because I'd rather go to the trouble of metal working, because otherwise it'd look wrong to me.
But then, at the same time, I'm wondering if I could fashion louvers of various sizes for various aircraft, and possibly market them. Yes, it'd be tedious work, until I was able to machine steel molds, then it'd be simply a matter of setting things up. Besides, can't be much more difficult than cutting a set of end ribs for a 727, where you carve a mold out of a block of maple, then pound a sheet of soft aluminum until formed, then send out for hardening.
Kevlar06
Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
AeroScale: 833 posts
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
AeroScale: 833 posts
Posted: Friday, May 18, 2018 - 10:07 PM UTC
An Auto Plane and a Couzinet! You are a glutton for punishment my friend! I know you said scratch-- but it might be easier to go with Heller's 1/75 scale Couzinet. The louvers for the Couzinet wrap over the cowlings-- so they aren't flat, they're curved-- which would be a nightmare to get them to look right. The Auto Plane seems much more straight forward, and could be accomplished easily enough with the materials you suggest. I built a 1/48 Aurora Brueget 14A2 (Renault) a few years back. the Renault built Breuget has four rows of rearward slanting louvers. I cut the engine panels out, and made new ones with HO gauge highway overpass styrene railings that had the upright supports spaced perfectly for 1/48 scale. The railings were glued to parallel strips of styrene, and each individual "louvre" was carefully carved (to get a thin profile), and the whole unit was cemented into place. Spacing is the key to get them to look right. You must be like me-- you build really weird stuff that nobody ever heard of before (hence why no kit manufacturers make them). I've used shim brass too, but in smaller scales it's hard to get the openings right due to the stiffness of the material. I prefer using aluminum foil, over a form as you said, and then using CA as a "stiffener" carefully brushed on. But even when carving or making a form, you have to be very precise in spacing on the master. Good luck!
VR, Russ
VR, Russ
maxmwill
Alabama, United States
Joined: August 24, 2011
KitMaker: 334 posts
AeroScale: 291 posts
Joined: August 24, 2011
KitMaker: 334 posts
AeroScale: 291 posts
Posted: Friday, May 18, 2018 - 10:36 PM UTC
Yes, I'm one of those who is a glutton for punishment.
I didn't know that Heller came out with a Couzinet kit. I'll have to look into that.
Yes, I do like the obscure subjects. One that I've been kicking around is the Vickers Vulcan, Vickers first designed for purpose airliner. Everything about that beastie screams to me "model me".
As to the Autoplane, I had thought that I might want to start with a Model T, then go from there, but, as I'd like to build this in 1/48, and there aren't any Model T kits in that scale, then scratch it is I'll go. Still, a biplane, with Jenny style rigging, perhaps at this point,a bit more than I can chew.
I had thought that .005 brass shim stock would work, but aluminum foil, ok, that's doable.
Still, if I can work this out, then I'll be able to make louvers for other types, as needed.
Another obscure subject that has my interest is the Boulton & Paul P.64. It is those nine-sided nacelles that I like, although the development of that, the P.71, is also worth consideration. Both those tubby ladies I find quite attractive.
I didn't know that Heller came out with a Couzinet kit. I'll have to look into that.
Yes, I do like the obscure subjects. One that I've been kicking around is the Vickers Vulcan, Vickers first designed for purpose airliner. Everything about that beastie screams to me "model me".
As to the Autoplane, I had thought that I might want to start with a Model T, then go from there, but, as I'd like to build this in 1/48, and there aren't any Model T kits in that scale, then scratch it is I'll go. Still, a biplane, with Jenny style rigging, perhaps at this point,a bit more than I can chew.
I had thought that .005 brass shim stock would work, but aluminum foil, ok, that's doable.
Still, if I can work this out, then I'll be able to make louvers for other types, as needed.
Another obscure subject that has my interest is the Boulton & Paul P.64. It is those nine-sided nacelles that I like, although the development of that, the P.71, is also worth consideration. Both those tubby ladies I find quite attractive.
Kevlar06
Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
AeroScale: 833 posts
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
AeroScale: 833 posts
Posted: Friday, May 18, 2018 - 11:24 PM UTC
Max, have you been to the Wings of Peace website? They specialize in modeling civil aircraft of the first half of the 20th Century. I belong to a group of modelers up here in Washington where you’d fit in nicely— the Nortwest Scale Modelers (NWSM)— they are sponsored by the Seattle Museumof Flight— many are retired Boeing employees, and they build lots of weird aircraft of the 20s and 30s. We have a civil aircraft display going in at the MoF in December 2019, with lots of strange and wonderful birds— I’m currently working on a Dornier Wal and a SM 55X for that display ( when I saw “Couziant” in your post, I was impressed!) Are you aware of the Schiffer books “Scratchbuilt!” and “The Scratchbuilders”? They have a lot of good tips just for scratchbuilding aircraft. They were written by John Alcorn, a member of our group. Good reads for scrathbuilders— I highly recommend them.
VR, Russ
VR, Russ
maxmwill
Alabama, United States
Joined: August 24, 2011
KitMaker: 334 posts
AeroScale: 291 posts
Joined: August 24, 2011
KitMaker: 334 posts
AeroScale: 291 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 19, 2018 - 03:10 AM UTC
No, I am not aware of those.
And, I'm not too sure how well I'd fit in, 'cause I tend to go after some rather esoteric subjects, such as the Zhuchenko Aerostatoplan, an early Yugoslav experimental VTOL from the late 30s, which is a very nice kit from Kora.
Also, I tried to look for the Heller Couzinet, but couldn't find it.
And, I'm not too sure how well I'd fit in, 'cause I tend to go after some rather esoteric subjects, such as the Zhuchenko Aerostatoplan, an early Yugoslav experimental VTOL from the late 30s, which is a very nice kit from Kora.
Also, I tried to look for the Heller Couzinet, but couldn't find it.
Kevlar06
Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
AeroScale: 833 posts
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
AeroScale: 833 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 19, 2018 - 03:18 AM UTC
Quoted Text
No, I am not aware of those.
And, I'm not too sure how well I'd fit in, 'cause I tend to go after some rather esoteric subjects, such as the Zhuchenko Aerostatoplan, an early Yugoslav experimental VTOL from the late 30s, which is a very nice kit from Kora.
Also, I tried to look for the Heller Couzinet, but couldn't find it.
Max, believe me, you'd fit in quite well! We have some folks in the group that build only weird one-offs. The Heller 1/75 Couzinet is long out of production, but every once in a while one will turn up on eBay. I used to work in a LHS here after I retired. We'd buy kit collections and I saw a lot of European kits of stuff most modelers had never heard of. I think the Heller kit is a re-pop of something offered in East Europe at one time. I saw one once come through our shop, and wish I'd snagged it at the time, but it wasn't one I was looking for so,I passed on it. Been kicking myself ever since.
VR, Russ
maxmwill
Alabama, United States
Joined: August 24, 2011
KitMaker: 334 posts
AeroScale: 291 posts
Joined: August 24, 2011
KitMaker: 334 posts
AeroScale: 291 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 19, 2018 - 06:49 AM UTC
Ok, I'll keep an eye open. Something else I'm building is a model of a Sea Master, the one in 1/136(I think). Until I saw a pic of it on its beaching gear, I didn't give it much thought. But someone gifted me a drawing of the beaching gear, so I'll scale those down and go from there.
Kevlar06
Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
AeroScale: 833 posts
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
AeroScale: 833 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 19, 2018 - 07:30 AM UTC
Max,
Look here for Sea Master details:
http://www.scalemodelnews.com/2015/08/martin-seamaster-sleek-flying-boat-jet.html
The original kit was released by Revell in the early sixties. However, Mach 2 (ugh) has released a kit in 1/72 scale (also OOP). There's some neat photos of one with beaching gear and opened engine nacelles. In the article. I'm a seaplane guy-- and have been looking for the Mach 2 Sea Dart for a while now in 1/72-- but It's a dog too.
VR, Russ
Look here for Sea Master details:
http://www.scalemodelnews.com/2015/08/martin-seamaster-sleek-flying-boat-jet.html
The original kit was released by Revell in the early sixties. However, Mach 2 (ugh) has released a kit in 1/72 scale (also OOP). There's some neat photos of one with beaching gear and opened engine nacelles. In the article. I'm a seaplane guy-- and have been looking for the Mach 2 Sea Dart for a while now in 1/72-- but It's a dog too.
VR, Russ
Posted: Saturday, May 19, 2018 - 02:26 PM UTC
Look to some of the companies that do 3D printing as they will likely be able to help the most.
maxmwill
Alabama, United States
Joined: August 24, 2011
KitMaker: 334 posts
AeroScale: 291 posts
Joined: August 24, 2011
KitMaker: 334 posts
AeroScale: 291 posts
Posted: Saturday, May 19, 2018 - 06:44 PM UTC
That is something I'm giving serious thought to. Not sure if it'd be doable, yet(the primary consideration here is cost), but if I can get this done via 3d printing, then I might want to look into another personal bugaboo of mine, wipers.
I have yet to see wipers for the various scale models which, as full size aircraft, have windscreen wipers in a very visible position, such as helicopters. I began to get this little frustration, realistic looking wipers, when I was putting together a 1/48 Bo-105, and was not satisfied with the molded in wipers on the windscreen.
Wipers in 1/24 scale are available for car and truck models, but no wipers for aircraft of any kind are available. I think it'd be awfully nice for a range of aircraft windscreen wipes. To me, this is something the market has been screaming for(albeit at a very low volume setting).
And if I have to, I'll see about buying a printer myself, and see what I could come up with(provided I make friends with a software genius).
I have yet to see wipers for the various scale models which, as full size aircraft, have windscreen wipers in a very visible position, such as helicopters. I began to get this little frustration, realistic looking wipers, when I was putting together a 1/48 Bo-105, and was not satisfied with the molded in wipers on the windscreen.
Wipers in 1/24 scale are available for car and truck models, but no wipers for aircraft of any kind are available. I think it'd be awfully nice for a range of aircraft windscreen wipes. To me, this is something the market has been screaming for(albeit at a very low volume setting).
And if I have to, I'll see about buying a printer myself, and see what I could come up with(provided I make friends with a software genius).
maxmwill
Alabama, United States
Joined: August 24, 2011
KitMaker: 334 posts
AeroScale: 291 posts
Joined: August 24, 2011
KitMaker: 334 posts
AeroScale: 291 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 09, 2018 - 01:49 AM UTC
Russ, what experiences have you had with Mach 2?
Kevlar06
Washington, United States
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
AeroScale: 833 posts
Joined: March 15, 2009
KitMaker: 3,670 posts
AeroScale: 833 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 09, 2018 - 04:14 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Russ, what experiences have you had with Mach 2?
Ugh-- that's the best description I can offer. I've built several o thier kits-- the Vertiplane and Sea-Dart can be made into nice models, but they take a lot (and I do mean a lot) of work. I used to have thier PBM, but sold mine after Mini-craft came out with a nicer kit. For Mach-2, expect lots of resin flash, imperfections, bubbles, warping and mis-alignment. But sometimes they are the only game in town (as in the Sea-Dart).
VR, Russ
maxmwill
Alabama, United States
Joined: August 24, 2011
KitMaker: 334 posts
AeroScale: 291 posts
Joined: August 24, 2011
KitMaker: 334 posts
AeroScale: 291 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 09, 2018 - 05:23 AM UTC
Ever mess around with any Unicraft models? You want challenges(not a challenge, but more than one), that's the outfit to deal with, and I like Igor's models. Igor Shestakov lives in Kiev, and he has a really nice line of models, most of them 1/72.
Ever see a 1/72-1/32 Daimler DB021 turboprop engine(I think he still has the 3 scales)? He's got lot of models of strange flying machines, including one or two Boeing flying wing Naval fighters.
But, the kits are a real challenge. One of the biggest is the canopy. it is a blown mold(or vacuform), and there is little to attach it to on the model. I've started mounting canopy rails on models, just have more than the edge of the plastic butt glued to the fuselage.
Ever see a 1/72-1/32 Daimler DB021 turboprop engine(I think he still has the 3 scales)? He's got lot of models of strange flying machines, including one or two Boeing flying wing Naval fighters.
But, the kits are a real challenge. One of the biggest is the canopy. it is a blown mold(or vacuform), and there is little to attach it to on the model. I've started mounting canopy rails on models, just have more than the edge of the plastic butt glued to the fuselage.