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72 scale aircraft - newbie help!
Victory
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England - North West, United Kingdom
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Posted: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 04:24 AM UTC
hi all,

Just returned to the hobby from a long lay off (30 years- where did that go?).

I am getting to grips with all the new stuff - filler, clearfix, airbrushing, acrylic paints, microsol etc. All this 'new' stuff is amazing for an 'oldie' like me.

Anyway - I am starting out with 1/72 aircraft and finding things a little tough going. I have so far built a stuka and a hurricane. Currently building a ME109. All of these kits are old revell kits from around 1978 era.

I realise that I cannot produce A1 models from the start but 1/72 is such a small scale that I am thinking of switching over to 1/48. I would like to build a collection of 1/72 because I intend to do some WW2 bombers.

Question to all those guys creating the 1/72 gems that I see on armorama;

Did you start off with 1/72 scale?

How many kits did you get under your belt before you were happy with the results?

I have just bought an italeri 1/48 mustang - so thats my next model. Just want to see if a '48' is more to my likeing.

lordQ
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Oost-Vlaanderen, Belgium
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Posted: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 04:52 AM UTC
hi victory,

yes i also build those little things,and i've also build the revell germant stuka.Yes it tkes long until your statisfied with the results.When i finnish a model i always want to change something,the color isn't good,the weathering not visible and som other stupid things.I just can't stop!
The great advantage of 1/72 is that theere much cheaper in most cases but they are very small..i know the me 109 is!!
In 1/48 you have a wider range of models and they're bigger,much bigger so it's easier to paint and mask them and the detailing in the cockpit for example is not as hard as doing a '72 scale one!..But for a quality 1/48 kit the price is offcourse somewhat higher and you need more storage to place your entire collection.

I think the choise is up to you. ask some Armoexperts for more advise!

Q.
MadMeex
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Vaasa, Finland
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Posted: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 04:56 AM UTC
I build the majority of my AC in 1/72 scale, and that's been my scale of choice since I built my first He-111 some 32 years ago.

My reasons for the scale are the huge selection of kits available, from both the mainstream manufacturers as well as the lesser know eastern Europeans. Cost is the next factor, since a 1/48 scale kit will cost more than the same 1/72 subject. Finally, the amount of space required to display the subject is a concern with the larger kits.

Mika
CRS
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California, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 06:10 AM UTC
Vince - Having started modeling in the 1950's, no I didn't start with 1/72 scale. Things were mostly "Box scale" or 1/48 or larger then. I started with 1/72 some time in the late 1960's mostly for the reasons stated by
Mika (MadMeex) uppermost for me was space conservation, but also the large selection of subjects, price wasn't ever really a factor.
At my age I do most of my work under a magnifier lamp including painting and glueing. I really enjoy building so I have a lot of models around, so space conservation is still a big factor.
As to how many did I build before I was happy with the results, I'll let you know when I get there. I've obtained acceptable results but there is always room for improvement.
almonkey
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England - East Midlands, United Kingdom
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Posted: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 06:56 AM UTC
one thing to think about is how much space do you have to display your kits? another thing is that the smaller 1/72 kits can be practised on if you are trying out new techniques, for instance i have an airfix P 40 kittyhawk i want to use to pre-shade panel lines on before i take on a revel HE 177. these smaller kits don't cost too much and if it goes pear shaped you've learned a lesson without it costing ( cash and sweat!) perhaps the best example is my italeri A 10, bought in 1997, i decided to build a few smaller modern jets to get my eye in,then a year later i bought a photo etch set for it, realised it was a bit ambitious, so left it while i built smaller stuff with p/e, its only from about a couple of years ago i've felt confidant i could do it justice (but its still in my stash waiting!) also welcome back to the hobby,as you say its changed a heck of a lot since time you packed up, which is roughly the time i packed up (early eighties) but the best thing is now you don't have to hassle your parents for pocket money to buy stuff! :-)
Holdfast
Staff MemberPresident
IPMS-UK KITMAKER BRANCH
#056
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England - South West, United Kingdom
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Posted: Wednesday, October 27, 2004 - 07:29 AM UTC
Hi Vince,
Yes I started with 1/72 scale, I used to do modern aircraft. I realised that i preferred to model WWII aircraft and changed to 1/48 scale because, then, detail was better (still is but 1/72 has certainly improved). I couldn't say how many models I built before I started to be reasonably happy with the results. There was a lot of frustration though because I basically had to teach myself. There was no internet and reading books on modelling can just make you even more frustrated because if you aren't able to master the techniques outlined you can't ask the author any questions. At the moment I'm reasonably happy with the results I am able to achieve, but, as is usual, I'm striving for a better outcome or looking to achieve something new.
I believe that you are doing the right thing, using older, cheaper kits to build up techniques and confidence. Don't worry to much about mistakes but try and improve with each model. You could post pics on either of the 2 critique forums but for a gentler start you could simply post on the aircraft forum and ask for constructive criticism. You will quite often just get, "nice model" which is always nice to here, but I and others are always happy to help with ways that you might improve. Remember, though, that we all have our own way of doing things, It’s up to you to find a way that works for you. Remember, it is only you that needs to be happy with your results, so you can take it as far as you like. You have made a great start by finding Armorama, we have a great community here and everyone is willing to help.
Looking forward to seeing pics of some of your models and to watch you progress
Mal
Victory
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England - North West, United Kingdom
Joined: July 14, 2004
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Posted: Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 03:19 AM UTC
Hi to all,

Thanks for all the replys and advice.

This is a great website and forum. I always find something to interest me on every visit to the site. I am going to be around here for quite a while methinks.

I have uploaded pictures of my first two kits recently completed. A Stuka and a Hurricane. I have posted them in my 'Members Gallery' - Please all take a look and let me know what your comments are.

propboy44256
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Ohio, United States
Joined: November 20, 2002
KitMaker: 1,038 posts
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Posted: Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 03:39 AM UTC
I started out at 1/48 scale. Wasnt really concerned about space, because I was hanging them from fishing string from the celing of my workshop, now I have some 60+ planes hanging (including huge b24 liberator, B17 and b29) and the room is filled. I purchased a 1/72 Me262 for my office at work, and HATED the scale (hard to paint, lack of detail in the kit)
so I quit doing 1/72 planes.. But, I couldnt help myself and bought a 1/72 Tiger 1 tank, trying that next
Holdfast
Staff MemberPresident
IPMS-UK KITMAKER BRANCH
#056
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England - South West, United Kingdom
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Posted: Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 07:11 AM UTC
Well Vince, the Hurricane and Stuka look to be pretty competant efforts.Are they airbrushed? The Stuka is missing it's second uppersurface colour, Black green, I believe. Did you have a problem with masking it? Some find masking a complicated splinter scheme quite daunting, but when brocken down can prove to be quite easy. A good tip is to paint tyres dark grey, instead of black.
Out of interest I have an online build of a 1/48 Spitfire HERE, it might give you a few pointers. Through the build there is mention of verious articles, on washes, decalling etc, you will find them in the features gallery (see the bar at left)
Mal
Victory
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England - North West, United Kingdom
Joined: July 14, 2004
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Posted: Thursday, October 28, 2004 - 08:10 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Well Vince, the Hurricane and Stuka look to be pretty competant efforts.Are they airbrushed? The Stuka is missing it's second uppersurface colour, Black green, I believe. Did you have a problem with masking it? Some find masking a complicated splinter scheme quite daunting, but when brocken down can prove to be quite easy. A good tip is to paint tyres dark grey, instead of black.
Out of interest I have an online build of a 1/48 Spitfire HERE, it might give you a few pointers. Through the build there is mention of verious articles, on washes, decalling etc, you will find them in the features gallery (see the bar at left)
Mal

hi Mal,
Yes - they are both airbrushed. I bought the airbrush off ebay and the Stuka was the first model using it. I went for an easy scheme and I did not realise until later that the upper surface should be a splinter camo.

Thanks for the tip about tyres - I am building an ME109 (1/72). So it now has a splinter upper camo and grey tyres. I used 'post it' notes as a camo mask.

I am just getting to know my airbrush and the more I use it, the more I like it. It makes the hobby a whole lot more enjoyable. I am using a bunch of old revell kits from ebay - so I am just going to build them and see how they turn out. I was starting to get hung up on the 'less than perfect' label that I had 'attached' to them but now I am using them as techniques practise.

I have just taken a look at your Spitfire - amazing. I would like to think that I will get to that standard someday and earn my stripes.

I have caught that 'modelers virus' already and I now have 9 models stacked up ready to build. :-)

Right - back to the build now. I will posting pics of the ME109 soon. Catch you later.
Holdfast
Staff MemberPresident
IPMS-UK KITMAKER BRANCH
#056
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England - South West, United Kingdom
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Posted: Friday, October 29, 2004 - 07:45 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Yes - they are both airbrushed. I bought the airbrush off ebay and the Stuka was the first model using it. I went for an easy scheme and I did not realise until later that the upper surface should be a splinter camo.

Well if that is the first time using an airbrush you are a natural What type of airbrush is it, single or double action?

Quoted Text

Thanks for the tip about tyres - I am building an ME109 (1/72). So it now has a splinter upper camo and grey tyres. I used 'post it' notes as a camo mask.

I actually use Xtracolor Tyre Black, which, to me, looks right. Post it notes sound like a good idea, did you get any "bleed under" of the paint? I use Tamiya masking tape, for demarcation masking, it's quite expensive but well worth it. I fill in with Scotch Magic tape, from the green box. It's nice and low tack. I also use the very low tack out of the blue box. for airbrush work you need to get good at 2 things, masking and freehand spraying. I guess the Hurricane was sprayed freehand? Masking seems easy but you have to remember that airframes can have many compound curves. So cut thin strips of tape, Tamiya tape will allow you to form a straight line around the most demanding compound curves. Then use shorter wider lengths to fill in. away from the masked edge. Another tip is to always cut the straight edge. If you rely on the raw edge of the tape, although it might be straight, it very likely has bits of fluff and other garbage stuck to it.

Quoted Text

I have just taken a look at your Spitfire - amazing. I would like to think that I will get to that standard someday and earn my stripes.

Thanks, you already have the skills to produce good quality models, you just need to work at it a little, to bring it out. You have started the right way.

Quoted Text

I have caught that 'modellers virus' already and I now have 9 models stacked up ready to build.

:-) I have over 30 on the go and I'm just about to start another 2 maybe 3. A G4M Betty bomber, this is to try my hand at painting on markings and replicating a well weathered Japanese aircraft. A Macchi 205 Veltro, because I want to have a go at the Italian "smoke ring" camouflage. The 3rd one, if I start it, will be a Supermarine Walrus, I want to do a float plane/amphibian to have a go at modelling water. I already have one of each on the go, a PBY 5 Catalina and an Arado Ar 196. Both have "stalled" for various reasons, but I might have a go at resurrecting the Ar 196 but I'm planning a Kriegsmarine catapult for that :-)
Mal
CRS
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California, United States
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Posted: Friday, October 29, 2004 - 07:56 AM UTC
Mal,
Just happen to have this photo of a "Heavily Damaged" Japanese bomber in my reference folder.
This one is on display at Planes of Fame. If you want to tackle it I can get you more pictures.

Holdfast
Staff MemberPresident
IPMS-UK KITMAKER BRANCH
#056
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England - South West, United Kingdom
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Posted: Friday, October 29, 2004 - 08:04 AM UTC
:-) Maybe when I retire, Chuck. At the moment I just want to do a heavily weathered one :-) If you have any pictures of Betty's in the Tan/Green scheme I would be interested.
Thanks for thinking of me
Mal
Victory
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England - North West, United Kingdom
Joined: July 14, 2004
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Posted: Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 05:46 AM UTC
Hi Mal,

Thanks for your kind words. The airbrush is a double action external mix. I am glad I got the double action type - it gives you more control - even for a beginner like me. It was a good buy for £100 (thats for a compressor and airbrush - brand new). God - I love that ebay. :-)

I did not get any bleed under using the post it notes - I used the airbrush with lots of air and little amounts of paint sprayed with the tip of the airbrush about five inch away from the model. On the ME109 I have got a hard edge upper camo using this method. I varied the camo on the hurricane by using the post it notes close to the model for a sharp edge and then sometimes with the post it notes held a few millimeters from the model. I was just trying different methods to see how they looked. I have noticed some wartime pictures of RAF aircraft with just that effect - some hard edge and others soft. I read somewhere that it could have been due to 'field repairs'. They must have had some big post it notes in those days. :-)

I will also try tamiya masking tape on another model to see how that works out too. Thanks for the masking tips - I would never have thought to cut a new clean straight edge before using the tape.

I also have got some fresh ideas of my own for camo masking - so I will let everyone on armorama know the details if it works ok for me.

Just been to my local model shop (Lancaster) for some 'tyre black' paint but they have none in stock.
I will just mix some grey and black paint for now.

What is the 'Scotch Magic tape, from the green box' & ' use the very low tack out of the blue box' ? Where can I get it and what does green box / blue box refer to - different levels of tack?

With your Spitfire 1/48 - what is the 'putty' you used for the camo mask? Is it blue tack rolled out into strips?

Mal - sounds like you have got a lot of projects ahead of you. Its going to be difficult to model water realistically, I bet. I quite fancy doing an Arado Ar 196 myself. I hope you can get cracking on yours - get some pics posted too!

see ya
Wad_ware
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Illinois, United States
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Posted: Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 06:28 AM UTC
Hi Victory,
Welcome to Armorama from me too. You definately have found the right place for modeling. I don't think there is anything that can be asked that won't or can't be answered by someone here.

I mainly build 1/48th kits but have built 1 1/72nd plane. That small scale can get kind of intimidating at times, especially for people like me with big clumsy fingers.
I do highly recommend getting some kind of magnification to work under with the smaller kits. That really can make a difference in working with those smaller pieces and might help you feel more satisfied with your finished projects. There are all kinds of things to choose from from free standing lighted ones to goggle-like visors you wear and can flip up and down in and out of your way.

Both your hurricane and stuka are a good start from your 30 year modeling break. And I see you are all ready getting some good advice and tips from others here.
Just sit back and enjoy the hobby. There will always be someone here to help you out. The group builds and campaigns are a lot of fun to get into here also.

Good modeling
Wayne
Victory
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England - North West, United Kingdom
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Posted: Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 07:47 AM UTC
hi Wayne,

Thanks for the welcome

I have found this website to be an excellent resource and very friendly too. I have got a 1/48 Mustang stacked in the corner ready to build. It will give me a good 'feel' for the 1/48 scale.

see ya
Wad_ware
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Illinois, United States
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Posted: Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 09:22 AM UTC
Both scales have their good points and bad points. One obviously mentioned above is the size. 1/72nd takes up a lot less room than the same kit in 1/48th.
But if you have no problem with space you may end up liking the 1/48th scale better for yourself. The larger size gives a lot more detailing. Plus, if some time in the future you try some photo etch detailing (which I highly recomment also) in the 1/48th scale I think you will be addicted to it for life like I am :-)

Wayne


Victory
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Posted: Saturday, October 30, 2004 - 11:15 AM UTC
Hi Wayne,

Yes - I might be 'converted' to 1/48 like yourself. I do have a 'thing' about ww2 bombers though - so 1/72 is more practical for those subjects. I still remember building the airfix Short Stirling a lot of years back and I would like to build another.

I don't think I will be using photoetched parts just yet.

see ya,
Vince

Holdfast
Staff MemberPresident
IPMS-UK KITMAKER BRANCH
#056
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England - South West, United Kingdom
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Posted: Sunday, October 31, 2004 - 08:18 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I also have got some fresh ideas of my own for camo masking - so I will let everyone on armorama know the details if it works ok for me.

Nice one Vince, this is what it's all about, letting others know your own little tricks. You're never too old to learn I for one am always looking out for new tips and techniques.

Quoted Text

Just been to my local model shop (Lancaster) for some 'tyre black' paint but they have none in stock.
I will just mix some grey and black paint for now.

It's very unlikely that a local model shop will stock Xtracolor, but if you can make it to the IPMS Scale Modelworld, Hannants the manufacturer, will be there. You are right though any dark grey will do, black just looks to false on a model.

Quoted Text

What is the 'Scotch Magic tape, from the green box' & ' use the very low tack out of the blue box’? Where can I get it and what does green box / blue box refer to - different levels of tack?

I'll see about putting a couple of pics on here so yo can see what the boxes look like. Yep the green and blue are different levels of tack

Quoted Text

With your Spitfire 1/48 - what is the 'putty' you used for the camo mask? Is it blue tack rolled out into strips?

It is actually White Tack, same thing, made by the same company. To give a hard edge the white tack is rolled out to an even thickness, between 2 boards. It is then squashed flat and sliced down the middle. This gives you 2 lengths to use, the cut edge is the mask edge. For a slight overspray don't squash the sausage and it will leave you a little stand off, if you spray perpendicular to it. I actually prefer to spray feathered edges freehand, but have used this method on my SB2C Helldiver and F4U-1 Corsair, because I was having problems with my old airbrush. Those 2 are in the features gallery and in my personal gallery

Quoted Text

Mal - sounds like you have got a lot of projects ahead of you. Its going to be difficult to model water realistically, I bet. I quite fancy doing an Arado Ar 196 myself. I hope you can get cracking on yours - get some pics posted too!

Always have plenty on the go can never finish one at a time. I will go weeks without finishing anything, then over a couple of weeks I will complete a few. I've just finished a Hs 129, you can see that on the front page, I will have a Typhoon Mk 1B finished this week followed closely by a Mk V Spitfire, remember, "you just can't have to many Spitfires" :-)
Mal
Holdfast
Staff MemberPresident
IPMS-UK KITMAKER BRANCH
#056
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England - South West, United Kingdom
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Posted: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 - 07:27 AM UTC

Quoted Text

What is the 'Scotch Magic tape, from the green box' & ' use the very low tack out of the blue box’? Where can I get it and what does green box / blue box refer to - different levels of tack?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I'll see about putting a couple of pics on here so yo can see what the boxes look like. Yep the green and blue are different levels of tack


As promised:




The tape in the green box can be used for masking canopies (I use Parafilm M), however the tape in the blue box is to low tack for that and will peel off any area that isn't flat. I get it rom Staples, when I see it on offer. They tend to do tape in a dispenser, with 2 or 3 rolls extra. I have only seen the green sold like that, the blue seems to be much harder to find. They come in several widths as well.
Mal
Victory
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Posted: Tuesday, November 02, 2004 - 11:49 AM UTC
Thanks for that Mal. I know what to look out for now.

Congrats on the snow-bird project. I have been showing the pictures to my work collegues.

May see you at Telford.

see ya,
Vince
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