This seems to be a very controversial topic among a/c modelers so I thought I'd ask what you guys (and gals!) do in regards to panel lines. Do you pay no attention to them? Do you accent them by pre-shading, post-shading, oil wash, pastels or use some other method?
I personally seem to change everytime I do a a/c. Initially I used oil washes but on the corsair I just finished I got good results just by running a sharp no. 2 pencil down the recessed lines.
Whatever method you use I think good reference pictures are a must. Not all a/c have prominent panel lines while others seem about a foot deep. A lot depends on the construction of the plane but also on the location of the panels in regards to engine exhaust on the older prop planes, in my opinion. Seems some of the panel lines would become more pronounced as dust, smoke and soot from the engine exhaust is caught on the ridges between panels of the a/c. The lines would become more prominent as more exhaust matter built up onto those ridges.
Interested in everyone elses opinions.
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Panel Lines-what do you do with them?
Tin_Can
Florida, United States
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Posted: Saturday, August 24, 2002 - 11:59 PM UTC
modelcitizen62
Virginia, United States
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Posted: Sunday, August 25, 2002 - 01:25 AM UTC
trying to bait us again?
I tend to agree with you on changing approach depending on the model. If I'm going to do a USN/USMC a/c that's seen a fair bit of at-sea or tropical zone combat service, I'm more likely to do pre- and post-shading of panel lines to help give the paint the appearance of seeping oil, moisture and corrosion.
As for general panel line shading, I've always had a problem with the Hasegawa box model photos showing a pure black wash in the recesses. It looks even more toy-like than if there was no shading. Like you Tin, I use an BH lead in my mechanical pencil to shade general panel and hatch lines, then go back with appropriate grey or even brownish washes for panel seams experiencing more abuse -- access and entry hatches, panel joints downstream of exhaust and oil leakage, areas of heavy maintenance.
Like you said too Tin, some aircraft have, in real life, some pretty awful panel lines in some places. So what if the unknowing spectator thinks it may be poor workmanship if you reproduce that effect -- don't be afraid to try it if it floats your boat.
I cannot stress enough to look at photos and always be mindful of where and when and under what environmental conditions those photos were taken, how the environment reacts with the paint of a particular air airm. Most importantly -- be aware of the EXTENT of that wear so you don't over- or under-do it.
I'll float between post shading and pastel weathering of paint, but I try to drybrush some of the airfram high points -- flying surface leading and trailing edges, canopy opening edges, gun barrels, appropriate exposed rivets
I got ragged by a chamber of commerce bunch once when they asked me to do a model, for a local airport grand opening, of a hometown boy's A-6E that he flew from the Teddy R during Desert Storm. A lot of them griped and moaned that it was ratty looking, beat to hell, grimy and an insult to the local hero. When he arrived opening day, I got some really dirty looks when he said i'd followed his photographs and recollections properly. Go for the realism and forget the "experts"
Just my inflation rate's worth
I tend to agree with you on changing approach depending on the model. If I'm going to do a USN/USMC a/c that's seen a fair bit of at-sea or tropical zone combat service, I'm more likely to do pre- and post-shading of panel lines to help give the paint the appearance of seeping oil, moisture and corrosion.
As for general panel line shading, I've always had a problem with the Hasegawa box model photos showing a pure black wash in the recesses. It looks even more toy-like than if there was no shading. Like you Tin, I use an BH lead in my mechanical pencil to shade general panel and hatch lines, then go back with appropriate grey or even brownish washes for panel seams experiencing more abuse -- access and entry hatches, panel joints downstream of exhaust and oil leakage, areas of heavy maintenance.
Like you said too Tin, some aircraft have, in real life, some pretty awful panel lines in some places. So what if the unknowing spectator thinks it may be poor workmanship if you reproduce that effect -- don't be afraid to try it if it floats your boat.
I cannot stress enough to look at photos and always be mindful of where and when and under what environmental conditions those photos were taken, how the environment reacts with the paint of a particular air airm. Most importantly -- be aware of the EXTENT of that wear so you don't over- or under-do it.
I'll float between post shading and pastel weathering of paint, but I try to drybrush some of the airfram high points -- flying surface leading and trailing edges, canopy opening edges, gun barrels, appropriate exposed rivets
I got ragged by a chamber of commerce bunch once when they asked me to do a model, for a local airport grand opening, of a hometown boy's A-6E that he flew from the Teddy R during Desert Storm. A lot of them griped and moaned that it was ratty looking, beat to hell, grimy and an insult to the local hero. When he arrived opening day, I got some really dirty looks when he said i'd followed his photographs and recollections properly. Go for the realism and forget the "experts"
Just my inflation rate's worth
Sabot
Joined: December 18, 2001
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Posted: Sunday, August 25, 2002 - 01:32 AM UTC
Personally, I just try to accent them slightly since they aren't as stark or visible on a real vehicle. As far as Mike's A-6E story, I would have clarified whether or not they wanted a realistic (grimy, ratty) plane or a pristine looking "desk top" model. However, I have the benefit of 20/20 hindsight.
modelcitizen62
Virginia, United States
Joined: May 13, 2002
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Joined: May 13, 2002
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Posted: Sunday, August 25, 2002 - 04:13 AM UTC
Good point Rob -- I should have mentioned that they wanted it to look just like the one he flew in Desert Storm, and I guess they forgot that troops, airmen, sailors, planes, tanks, and gear get dirty and worn when you use them.
ladymodelbuilder
Virginia, United States
Joined: February 26, 2002
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Posted: Sunday, August 25, 2002 - 05:14 AM UTC
Hi fellows,
I usually rub some pastel chalk dust into the panel lines. I use just enough so you can see them, but don't want them to stick out at ya too much. I think that a model with the panel lines too dark looks more like a toy than a model....
Just my thoughts on the subject....
I usually rub some pastel chalk dust into the panel lines. I use just enough so you can see them, but don't want them to stick out at ya too much. I think that a model with the panel lines too dark looks more like a toy than a model....
Just my thoughts on the subject....
otto
Baden-Württemberg, Germany
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Posted: Sunday, August 25, 2002 - 07:59 AM UTC
Panel lines ?????? Well you SAND them off and make it smooth!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Tanks dont have panel lines.....I think those are called welds!!! LOL Just kidding!!!!! .... #:-) ...Otto!!!
penpen
Hauts-de-Seine, France
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Posted: Sunday, August 25, 2002 - 08:16 AM UTC
What I'm now trying to do is apply a wash, but not too dark (certainly not black). It's color should depend on the color of the panels... But, I'm still working at the method right now...
Ranger74
Tennessee, United States
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Posted: Sunday, August 25, 2002 - 11:03 PM UTC
I don't do much for panel lines. I may highlight flying surfaces, like elevators, etc. If I see photos that show that certain panel lines affect airflow from exhaust or some other staining item, then I might do something. I have seen to many "award-winning" kits with every panel line darkened to a toy-like appearance. It ends to draw my eyes to teh panel lines and away from teh overall aircraft. Sorry, but I just don't go into highlighing panel lines, especially on 1/72 A/C. Now I do not do modern aircraft with their flat, easily dirtied finishes, so I can avoid some of that controversy. Maybe that is one reason I like the clean Golden Age aircraft, as they were kept very clean.
lambertjr
United States
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Posted: Monday, August 26, 2002 - 12:52 AM UTC
It's all in what plane and scale your building. The sea going aircraft of the USN,USMC,RN and RAF get pretty nasty out on the flight deck. The aircraft of the worlds major airforces are usually clean of heavy wear. Helicopters are another story.....
Scale is a huge factor in how much the lines are accented. Then again, I have 1/32 Blue Angel and Thunderbird jets that look like the surface is sheer.
Hey Ranger74, I have a couple of photos of the a/c my grandfathers flew in the war (ww2) and they are as dirty as can be, if that is the golden age you are referring to :-)
Scale is a huge factor in how much the lines are accented. Then again, I have 1/32 Blue Angel and Thunderbird jets that look like the surface is sheer.
Hey Ranger74, I have a couple of photos of the a/c my grandfathers flew in the war (ww2) and they are as dirty as can be, if that is the golden age you are referring to :-)
slodder
North Carolina, United States
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Posted: Monday, August 26, 2002 - 01:07 AM UTC
Agreed - I vary my technique depending on kit and paint scheme. I usually do something to them. Mostly I use a thin wash and 'fill' the recesed lines with a complementary darker color than the base color. The scale plays a part too. The smaller the scale the lighter less apprent I will make the lines.
bison44
Manitoba, Canada
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Posted: Thursday, August 29, 2002 - 12:54 AM UTC
If you trace a pencil along the panel line, is that before or after the gloss coat goes on? And doesn't the pencil markings run when u put the final dullcoat on to seal everything in? I have had so many problems with washes and panel lines i just leave them alone. If they are overdone they do make the plane look like a toy.
Tin_Can
Florida, United States
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Posted: Thursday, August 29, 2002 - 12:56 AM UTC
Quoted Text
If you trace a pencil along the panel line, is that before or after the gloss coat goes on? And doesn't the pencil markings run when u put the final dullcoat on to seal everything in? I have had so many problems with washes and panel lines i just leave them alone. If they are overdone they do make the plane look like a toy.
I run the pencil around the panel edges before glosscoating for decals and haven't had any problems with the problems running.
sfilak
New York, United States
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Posted: Thursday, August 29, 2002 - 05:16 AM UTC
Another interesting effect that you can get from using a pencil on the panel lines is to smudge each line with an artist's blending stump after drawing the lines in. This will give you a nice, heavy weathering effect for use on modern USN jets, where the TPS schemes wear very heavily. Best of all, if you don't like it, you can go back with an eraser and remove any unwanted detail. I wouldn't use this particular technique for every plane, but it does work very well for modern Navy jets.
Tin_Can
Florida, United States
Joined: January 26, 2002
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Posted: Thursday, August 29, 2002 - 09:29 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Another interesting effect that you can get from using a pencil on the panel lines is to smudge each line with an artist's blending stump after drawing the lines in. This will give you a nice, heavy weathering effect for use on modern USN jets, where the TPS schemes wear very heavily. Best of all, if you don't like it, you can go back with an eraser and remove any unwanted detail. I wouldn't use this particular technique for every plane, but it does work very well for modern Navy jets.
Great Tip! Thanks.
Posted: Sunday, September 29, 2002 - 06:16 PM UTC
My method of panel line highlighting seems a bit drastic but it is just part of the overall effect. After decalling I brush on a second coat of Klear (Future), then, depending on the aircraft, for example a Typhoon with Ocean Grey, Dark Green topsides and Medium Sea Grey Undersides. I would mix artist oil paint, Ivory Black, Madder Brown and Paines Grey with just a touch of white. For the undersides I would add more white. I add white spirit to make a wash but not in the normal sense of the word, it isn't tinted thinner. I then flow this mixture into the panel line and around raised detail. Because it isn't tinted thinner you tend to have to brush it on, as apposed to capillary doing the work. It will look a mess but it is left for 24 hours. When you come back to it you take a cloth and dip it in thinners, then take most of it of with another cloth. Wipe over the model, with the air flow, and you will get (if done correctly) not only beautifully highlighted panel lines, which are not to stark but a very subtle weathering effect of the paintwork. There is more to this technique which includes primer coates and preshading. If you are interested email me. If there is alot of interest I'll post again outlining the whole proceedure. I will endeavour to post some pics.