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World War II: USA
Aircraft of the United States in WWII.
Hosted by Rowan Baylis
Airfield and Airplane "wear" help!
Hellbird769
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Posted: Saturday, October 08, 2005 - 03:19 AM UTC
I have been looking at the diorama pictures that have been posted, and all I can say is WOW!

Its been 20 years since I did my last model, so I have a few questions.

1. What is the best way to make a 1/72 scale airfield? I really want to build the area of the field where the planes were parked, being serviced, etc. The field I have on mind is the West field on Tinian Island for B-29's. I have some pics, but its hard to tell what the material was that was used in these areas. In all honesty it looks like gravel, so I guess the true question is what materials make best 1/72 scale gravel? What is the technique used to secure it to my diarama base?

2. How and what do ya'll use to show carbon marks from planes? To show bullet holes, or other damage? In some pics it looks like these things are painted on, but i am interested in the others that look like "real" holes, bent props, torn wings, etc.

Thanks!

Edit: Ok, I have added pics to my account here. So, does that look like gravel where the crew photos are? Also, that is the plane i want to build.
GI_Babycakes
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Posted: Saturday, October 08, 2005 - 04:24 AM UTC
i just sent you a link, but from what i can tell, it might be concrete. since the bomb "bunkers" were walled concrete, they may have used the same material.

my edit: thats an awesome plane. i looked at your pics and it's really hard to tell! the link i sent you has color pics and i think they will help.
Merlin
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Posted: Saturday, October 08, 2005 - 04:53 AM UTC
Hi Sean

That does look like gravel - maybe ground-up coral from the construction?

Here are a couple of links:

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/tinian.htm

http://www.raymartinsr.com/tinian/tinian_main.htm

http://www.444thbg.org/htrasklittlemike.htm

http://www1.city.nagasaki.nagasaki.jp/abm/abm_e/qa/gm_e/qa_a6_e.html

I hope this is some help - all the best

Rowan
Hellbird769
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Posted: Saturday, October 08, 2005 - 12:19 PM UTC

Quoted Text

thats an awesome plane.



Thanks. That is my grandfathers plane, he was the pilot and flew her from delivery to wars end.
Hellbird769
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Posted: Saturday, October 08, 2005 - 12:22 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Sean

.........maybe ground-up coral from the construction?




I think your right on this. i have been researching it more, and have found that the Seabees used ground coral to make the 8000ft runways. It would be safe to assume that they might have used the same in other areas.

So, anyone know how to make "crushed Coral" for 1/72 scale?
JPTRR
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Posted: Monday, October 10, 2005 - 02:11 AM UTC
When airfields were built, it was intially with what was at hand. Even the Japanese on Guadalcanal quarried locally, rolling with a steamroller. AFAIK, their airfield complex at Rabual only had one paved runway.

In China, the B-29 fields were rolled limestone, quarried and crushed, then rolled with 18t rollers, by local coolies.

In the PTO crushed coral was the norm. As available, oil would be put down but mainly the coral was "raw"--hence all those nicely sandblasted to bare metal props and leading edges we modelers like to put on our birds! Muddy places like Henderson Field and New Guinea were liberally covered with Marston Mat, PSP (Pierced Steel Planking), which was also put over the coral base as available. It was widely used in North Africa, muddy Sicily ansd Italy, and France after D-Day.

Heavy bombers flew off of these runways. The concrete and asphalt surfaces seemed to be ALMOST exclusive to England. However, some of our 8th & 9th AF fighter units flew off of sod field in England, at least until constrction crews could catch up.

The Axis, lacking the Allies' capacity for luxurious facilities, seemed mainly to fly off of dirt and gravel. I recall a story (Horrido, or The Blonde Knight of Germany--Eric Hartman?) about one of the Luftwaffe's top units in Russia, after retreating west, landing on a paved runway--nobody was used to it and the first few planes' landing gear collapsed due to applying soft-field proceedures to a hard surface.

Of course, note photos of Japanes planes esconced in the cocanut groves. We did it too.

Model railroad track ballast makes nice coral/gravel. Take your pick:
Various Ballasts

White Ballast

How did this effect the looks of the airplanes? Desert and Pacific coral field threw up clouds of dust--airplanes can be dusty--until the daily Pacific deluge washes them off--streaky airplanes.

The dust and coral sandblasts every leading edge.

Muddy fields--mud splatters around the wheels and gear. You can put foodprints on the walking areas.
Hellbird769
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Posted: Monday, October 10, 2005 - 02:53 AM UTC

Quoted Text

When airfields were built, it was intially with what was at hand. Even the Japanese on Guadalcanal quarried locally, rolling with a steamroller. AFAIK, their airfield complex at Rabual only had one paved runway.

In China, the B-29 fields were rolled limestone, quarried and crushed, then rolled with 18t rollers, by local coolies.

In the PTO crushed coral was the norm. As available, oil would be put down but mainly the coral was "raw"--hence all those nicely sandblasted to bare metal props and leading edges we modelers like to put on our birds! Muddy places like Henderson Field and New Guinea were liberally covered with Marston Mat, PSP (Pierced Steel Planking), which was also put over the coral base as available. It was widely used in North Africa, muddy Sicily ansd Italy, and France after D-Day.

Heavy bombers flew off of these runways. The concrete and asphalt surfaces seemed to be ALMOST exclusive to England. However, some of our 8th & 9th AF fighter units flew off of sod field in England, at least until constrction crews could catch up.

The Axis, lacking the Allies' capacity for luxurious facilities, seemed mainly to fly off of dirt and gravel. I recall a story (Horrido, or The Blonde Knight of Germany--Eric Hartman?) about one of the Luftwaffe's top units in Russia, after retreating west, landing on a paved runway--nobody was used to it and the first few planes' landing gear collapsed due to applying soft-field proceedures to a hard surface.

Of course, note photos of Japanes planes esconced in the cocanut groves. We did it too.

Model railroad track ballast makes nice coral/gravel. Take your pick:
Various Ballasts

White Ballast

How did this effect the looks of the airplanes? Desert and Pacific coral field threw up clouds of dust--airplanes can be dusty--until the daily Pacific deluge washes them off--streaky airplanes.

The dust and coral sandblasts every leading edge.

Muddy fields--mud splatters around the wheels and gear. You can put foodprints on the walking areas.



Thanks for the information. From pictures I have seen of Tinian, it looks like gravel or crushed coral (according to books) in the areas they park the planes. So, this leads to the next question. What color is crushed coral? Can not tell from black and white photos.
GI_Babycakes
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Posted: Monday, October 10, 2005 - 03:55 AM UTC
i have some coral at home that is white. i don't know if it was bleached before it was sold or if that is the natural state.
CRS
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Posted: Monday, October 10, 2005 - 05:28 AM UTC
Michael's sells crushed coral, in the floral arrangement section, looks to be the right consistancy for 1/72, very finely ground, in a couple of colors, white and sand (very pale reddish brown).
Hellbird769
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Posted: Monday, October 10, 2005 - 05:55 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Michael's sells crushed coral, in the floral arrangement section, looks to be the right consistancy for 1/72, very finely ground, in a couple of colors, white and sand (very pale reddish brown).



Thanks!
CRS
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Posted: Monday, October 10, 2005 - 06:10 AM UTC
Thank you, for those pics of the airfield at Tininan, I've had a dio in mind for some time featuring that base. I was really surprised, not a palm tree in sight
Hellbird769
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Posted: Monday, October 10, 2005 - 07:32 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Thank you, for those pics of the airfield at Tininan, I've had a dio in mind for some time featuring that base. I was really surprised, not a palm tree in sight



I have others if you need them. I have some more arial views, some sketches of areas, etc. I have very few pics of the South Field (where the 58th was based). Most are of the North Field w/ her 4 8000 - 8500 ft runways. Let me know if you need more. Oh, and your right, not many palms, mostly shrubs and dirt.
CRS
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Posted: Monday, October 10, 2005 - 08:20 AM UTC
Do you have any photos showing the Harbor / Dock area ? My Dio deals with the Indianapolis and it's "delivery".
Hellbird769
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Posted: Monday, October 10, 2005 - 09:15 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Do you have any photos showing the Harbor / Dock area ? My Dio deals with the Indianapolis and it's "delivery".



No, I really do not have any of the Harbor in my collection, but.........I did know of a few sites that did. Look in my pics, and you will find some harbor pics from then and now, and a pic of the "pits" and your "delivery" in its pit. :-)
CRS
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Posted: Tuesday, October 11, 2005 - 08:34 AM UTC
Sean - Thanks a MegaTon, just what I needed
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