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Modern (1975-today)
Discuss the modern aircraft age from 1975 thru today.
Israeli Blue/Brown Cammo-Myth or Fact?
18Bravo
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Colorado, United States
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Posted: Monday, February 06, 2006 - 07:21 AM UTC
I have a 1/48 P-51D I plan on doing with Tauro decals. The instructions call for the same blue/brown pattern I've seen others use, including an Ouragan in Scale Aircraft Modelling (April 1998) which calls for Navy blue. However, I recall a few years ago reading that this color had either been misinterpreted or had jusr changed over time. Anyone know for sure the colors used in the Suez campaign?
VonCuda
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North Carolina, United States
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Posted: Monday, February 06, 2006 - 07:57 AM UTC
Hey 18Bravo,
I found this site with some pics of a P-51D with Israeli markings. It isn't the blue/brown pattern but rather a red/brown. There is also an excellent history report to go along with the aircraft.

Link http://modelingmadness.com/reviews/korean/cleaver7251d.htm

Hope this helps
Hermon
18Bravo
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Colorado, United States
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Posted: Monday, February 06, 2006 - 09:00 AM UTC
Thanks for that link. What that brief history does not mention is that the Israeli plan to cut the communication lines did not work as well as planned, but the pilots, unwilling to accept defeat, used their wingtips and propellors to accomplish the mision. Interesting about the color-it's the first I've heard of that combo being used, and does not mention the blue at all. Looks like further research is required...
vanize
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Texas, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 - 01:16 PM UTC
well, if the blue wasn't used, someone should tell the Israeli Air Force Museam (as well as about every other expert on the subject), as they have LOADS of aircraft there done up in this sceme (and NONE in with the red brown) - and many of those are supposedly wearing their original paint as far as I know:
http://home.att.net/~david.pride/Aviation/IAF_index.htm

the accepted generalization is that air superiority aircraft were in silver and ground attack and second line aircraft got the blue and tan sceme.
Drader
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Wales, United Kingdom
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Posted: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 - 03:14 PM UTC
Museums aren't known for getting things right all the time, so they're a resource to be used with a great deal of caution. Very few exhibits wear their original paint schemes and restoration is usually based on what is 'current knowledge' which is subject to change.
VonCuda
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North Carolina, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 - 06:49 PM UTC
To clear up any confusion, My post wasn't ment to be a final or definitive answere. I didn't mean to imply that there was no "blue/brown" camo scheme used by the Israeli Airforce. I simpily found a website with an example of what I considered to be a neat and unusual camo scheme with a story that related to the original post.

Sorry for the mix up.

Hermon
Drader
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Wales, United Kingdom
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Posted: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 - 07:03 PM UTC
Maybe the people running this site might know?

http://www.isradecal.com/ids_main.html
18Bravo
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Colorado, United States
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Posted: Wednesday, February 08, 2006 - 09:18 PM UTC
I appreciate the input about the museum, but it was that very museum that started the controversy, as I recall. I'm not saying they're incorrect-just that I've read those colors were not used, and want to clarify. Two of my favorite references for all things Israeli are Modern Military Powers, Israel, by Temple Press, and Israeli War Machine, by Ian V. Hogg. Both have color plates showing aircraft of that period in a green/light brown pattern. Now I know that even these might not be 100% reliable, but their colors for all other eras are spot on, and I find Hogg's references to be generally very well researched. As I said earlier, further research on my part is required, so I have taken Drader's advice and contacted Isradecals. If they say blue, that's two decal companies among others, so I'll go with it. Otherwise, I might compromise and go witha bluish green. (which, by the way, is how the color looks to me in those museum photos)
vanize
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Texas, United States
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Posted: Thursday, February 09, 2006 - 01:53 AM UTC
I will admit there is some chance that the dark greyish-green blue is not 100% accurate - however there really are a LOT of aircraft displayed by the IAF museam in this sceme - from p-51s to Valtours and lots of others (many more than featured on that website i sited earlier), many of which appear to have never been repainted since their service days and are now heavily weathered. It could be some chemical process in the aging of a more green paint makes it look closer to blue after exposure to lots of UV - yellows do tend to fade (but then again, so do blues - so mixing a green out of the two could leave you with unpredictable results decades later!).

Several years ago I put a lot of effort into figuring this color scheme out, and in the end was satisfied that the Israelis did use some sort of bluish color over tan - though perhaps not as intense a blue as depicted by some sources - though reproducing blues in print or on a screen is notoriously difficult, so perhaps they also did not intend to depict a strong dark blue either...

Anyway, the point is, blues are difficult - they don't age well and they don't reproduce well.

one last point - it seems to me the IAF museam tends to be more concerned with historical color accuracy of their displayed vehicles than other museums are. Not sure if this is true for sure, especially in certain individual cases, but that is the impression i get.
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