Hi all,

I'm going to be building an (Airfix) Anson of 500 County of Kent Squadron RAF for a local IPMS club build. Now what I have found is that 500 Sqd fitted a 20mm cannon in place of the toilet to some of their Anson's and they where unique in doing this.

Does anyone out there have any infomation and/or pictures of this installation? Did the gun face forward, backward, fixed, trainable etc.

500 Sqd has the distiction of the first attack on a U-boat 5th Sept 1939 and shotting down 3 Bf-109s in combat with an Anson!!! Now that is something

Looking forward to anything you can add.

Ciao
Luciano

hello mate! i found this on the R.A.F. waddington website
"Anson crews began to get a bit of a reputation for adding extra weapons, usually machine guns pointing out of the windows. 500 Sqn went one better with 20mm Hispano cannons poking out of holes cut in the floor where the toilet used to be. These were used to fire down onto E-boats"
no pics, but this suggests there were two cannons sticking out of the belly maybe pointing forward and down like an upside down schrage muzik installation.
hth, phil

Cheers Phil, but I would have thought that they would either be fixed forward or trainable even if only a little bit. Unlike the target of schrage muzik where they are both moving relatively fast, the target for the Anson would be almost stationary 'relatively'.
I also found the info reguarding the toilet removal but if the toilet is in the rear of the cabin the Anson is a tail dragger you would not be able to have fixed weapons pointing down.
Sorry just some thoughts Still need answers though as this has me puzzled.

Ciao
Luciano

They shot down 3 Me 109s'??? With an Avro Anson???

Wow! COOL!

I thought I knew a lot about the British Forces but they continue to surprise me.

Sorry Luciano, I have absolutely no idea about this. I just wanted to say it must have been a bummer to be a Bf 109 pilot and be shot down by an Avro Anson
Talk about wolf in sheeps clothing :-)
Mal

we need to find out more info on the toilet, it may be that that theres only one way to fit cannons in the space it leaves. i was thinking it might have gone through at a very shallow angle, giving the pilot a chance to see where he's shooting and aim easier.
another point is that if there are no pics of this plane no-one can pick you up on it!

Cheers guy's I think I've opened a can of worms on this.
Found a cutaway in a book I've got guess what no toilet!
I agree with you Phil may have been a very shallow fixing so the pilot could see where his aiming.
Now would it have had a fairing around it? As already discovered that a lot of Anson crews flew with the gear down as it was to much effort to raise and lower the gear, something like 170 turns of the handle.

Sorry got the Bf-109 action slightly wrong - Shot down two chased the third one off - repeat CHASED A BF-109 IN AN ANSON now that is some feat.

Ciao
Luciano

The Imperial War Museum, Duxford has this to say regarding “Faithful Annie”:

”Incredibly, the Annie had success in air-to–air combat: in September 1939, an Anson of 269 Sqn shot down a Dornier Do 18. On 1st June 1940, Plt Off Peters of No 500 (County of Kent) Squadron led a patrol of three Ansons to Dunkirk to support the evacuation of the BEF. The flight was attacked by nine Me 109s and two Ansons were sufficiently damaged to force them to return to base. Peters remained on station, and made himself a very difficult target by slow, evasive manoeuvres at wave-top height. One Me 109 overshot his attack and Peters downed it with his nose gun; a second 109 was then shot down, and a third returned to base with severe damage. Peters returned safely to base – with just one bullet hole in his aircraft. Annie had truly proved herself “faithful”, and Peters was awarded a well-earned DFC.

It was to mark this feat that the Imperial War Museum at Duxford decided to restore their Anson – N4877 – in the appearance and configuration of Plt Off Peter’s aircraft (N9732 MK-V). N4877 had served with the RAF from December 1938 to 1978, when its Certificate of Airworthiness expired.”

Source: http://www.griffon.clara.net/ccmaa/ccmaa_anson_iwm.htm also see http://duxford.iwm.org.uk/server/show/ConWebDoc.1194

Nine versus three and the Anson's won!

According to "The Hamlyn Concise Guide to British Aircraft of World war II by David mondey", a 20mm cannon was fitted in the commanding officer's Anson firing downward through a hole between the wing spars.

David

Hi Luciano

I found the following mention in PSL's "RAF Coastal Command 1936 - 1969":

"With their Ansons now operating over the Channel within a few minutes flying time of German fighter bases, No.500 Squadron crews got their armourers to mount extra side guns. They were also likely to stumble over very well armed "E" boats, and with the panache so typical of "auxiliaries", some of their aircraft were fitted with a free-mounted 20mm cannon firing through the floor of the cabin. The vibration caused when the cannon was fired loosened the mounting, but the directors of the British Cannon Manufacturing Company were so impressed by the unit's ingenuity that they presented to the Squadron a properly manufactured mount. There is no record of any success with the weapon but it made the crews feel less naked."

All the best

Rowan

Thank you guy's.

I think I need some Vickers K guns for the side windows and a 20mm cannon now this will be different, a conversion with no picture but as soon as I have made it someone will come up with a picture Murphuys law or some other law.

Ciao
Luciano

Sorry, but after reading all of this, it just brings a whole new meaning to the term 'tunnel gun.'


Cheers :-) :-) :-)

Just an update for you guy's, a member of my local IPMS dug up an old book on 500 Sqd and in it it describes the fit of the 20mm gun. So for those intrested this is what they did:

A large area of the belly between the main spar's was removed and the cannon was then mounted at the balance point of the spar in a 'free' mounting. The cannon could be aimed up and down but not side to side this gun was fired/aimed by the W/T operator. It also states that if fired backwards the cannon recoil would increase the speed of the Anson by 5 knots! In one combat log the W/T op got his glove stuck in the mechanisam while changing the magazine and dropped the magazine which was seen by another crew member, to land on the deck of the S-boat they where attacking.

This mod was only carried out on an aircraft of 'B' flight while nearly all the rest of the Sqd had the standard upgrade of two .303's mounted one each side operated again by the W/T operator on a mounting firing out the waist windows. There is also a note about one aircraft having two extra forward firing .303 Brownings bolted on the side.

(Sort of) A side note reading this book, during a raid on their airfield 'Detling' in Kent by He-111's one of the He-111's came in at 100 feet straffing with its nose gun, one of the 500Sqd pilots was caught in the open and watched as the He-111 came right at him with bomb bay open. As the He-111 went over something fell out of the bomb bay -NOT a bomb..... But the bomb release gear
This aircraft paid for the low level pass and went down where it exploded due to still having the bombs on board.

Ciao
Luciano