Hi all

Can anyone help please?

I'm looking for markings refs for a Pink upper surfaces/Mauve undersides Mklll Spitfire PR.

I'd be nost grateful for any assistance.
Cheers
Peter
:-)

Hi Peter.
Thats an interesting combination.What squadron used that and when?
Nige

Hi Nige...



Thats the problem...lol. I'm looking for exactly that. I found the scheme on the Don Colour site but they don't show any insignia, codes, serials etc.
I think it was around 41/42 for when but not sure.
From what I can gather PR Spits came in a wide range of schemes. The more familiar PRU blue, P

Hi Nige...



Thats the problem...lol. I'm looking for exactly that. I found the scheme on the Don Colour site but they don't show any insignia, codes, serials etc.
I think it was around 1941/42 for when but not sure.
From what I can gather PR Spits came in a wide range of schemes. The more familiar all over PRU blue, all over PRU pink, All metal, all white and I think faded camo shades to name but a few. Plus an all sky scheme and this PRU pink upper/Deep Mauve under I'm searching for.
Someone did an all pink model on site a year or so ago. It must be in the features archives. I'll have a dig.

Cheers
Peter
:-)

Hi Peter.
I thought it was unusual! It would make an interesting subject if you can find any references.


I did a build review for a MKX PRU Spit.
These were operated by 541 and 542 Sqns.
https://armorama.kitmaker.net/review/1515
I hope you manage to find some photographic evidence of this unusual scheme as it would really stand out in a Spitfire collection.
Nige

Many thanks Nige...

great start and a great help.

The Pink uppers with Dark Mauve unders scheme is what intrigues me. The ref on Don Colours is the first time I've seen this two colour PRU job.

I'll keep you posted...should I get lucky :-)

Again thanks
Cheers
Peter
:-)

Oh b*gg*r...


While searching for refs for PR Spitfire colours I found amongst the All-sky scheme, all metal, plus the usual PRU pink and PRU blue schemes a reference to at least one aircraft of this type that was mottled....yes I did say mottled.

No pic of course...but the biggest pity is I can't find the source again. My computer failed to save it during a network hicup at work.

I've looked everywhere with no luck, even regimentally clicking everything in the History files.

So if anyone might care to join the "Hunt for the mottled Spitfire" please join me.

It was pukka RAF, not a captured aircraft that got a coat of RLM whatever.

And still no sign of any refs for the pink uppers/dark mauve unders scheme either....

Rowan says this is all part of the "fun"...

Cheers and many thanks.
Peter

:-)

Spitfire Mk III was a prototype which never made it into production. The Mk V had been introduced as a stop-gap and it was considered not worth developing the aircraft further. The Spitfire PR III was first called a PR.Mk IC as it was a modified Mk I.

The PRU was allowed a lot of latitude in what it did and experimented with different colours including a green and pink. I have never come across either the pink and mauve or dappled scheme. Also it is unlikely that pink was used on a PR.Mk.IC. For high altitude PR Blue was used, the pink colour was for low altitude 'dicing' missions. The pink was to camouflage them as they flew just below the cloud base. As it was expected that they would meet enemy aircraft at these altitudes the PR.Mk.IG was developed for this purpose, retaining the eight gun armament of the MK I.
It is these PR.Mk.IGs that were painted pink, a very pale shade, sort of off-white. Later some Spitfire Mk IXs were used in a similar role and some of these were also painted pink.

Ref. Wings of Fame Vol 5 Spitfire Spyplanes
Spitfire 70, Key Publications special.

Hi Antoni
you are quite right. The Mk 3 was as you say.

But I'm talking about the PR Mk3 which was based on the Mk 1. I think its this way??? ...unless I've got it wrong again... :-)

Cheers
Peter
:-)

No you are not wrong. At the beginning of the war there does not seem to be any consistent method of allocating Mk numbers apart from new engines. The first PR Spitfires were all modifications of the MK I. At this time role prefixes such PR, F, LF, etc were not used so seven type designations - a to g – were used to identify the various configurations. They were also known as PR Ia to PR Ib. Then a new wing was introduced which became referred to as the ‘b’ wing and the original wing retrospectively the ‘a’ wing. Things were getting confusing so in 1941 the c to g versions became the PR III, PR IV, PR V, PR VI and PR VII. The a and b types were no longer used so there was no PR I or PR II. This still causes confusion. Many often mistake a PR V as a modification of a Spitfire Mk V which it was not. The PR Spitfires were also known as Type A, Type B etc. So the full designation is Spitfire PR I Type A (PR Ia). So many, myself included, prefer to refer to these first seven PR types as PR IA, IB etc as this is the clearest way of indicating the exact type being referred to without it being confused with other different types and types of wings (a, b, c ,e) fitted.

Later type designations such as F for fighter began to be used. Probably to stop more confusion unique Mk numbers began to be issued regardless of the role. So the F.IX built for PR was called a PR.XI but there is no F.XI. A few Mk IX airframes were modified for the PR role and called PR IX and unofficially as IX/XI. They were operated by 1 PRU and some sources refer to them as Mk XI. Some F.IXs were modified for a tactical reconnaissance role and these were designated FR.IXs.

The PR types IA to IF were developed to fly at high altitudes, carrying no armament, and relying on stealth and speed to evade detection. At these high altitudes blue was found to be the most effective colour. There was still a requirement for low-level reconnaissance and for this role the PR IG was developed. As they were likely to meet enemy fighters at these low attitudes it was felt necessary that they be able to defend themselves and so they retained the Mk I armament. The PR IG was to be flown in conditions of low cloud to help it avoid detection and the pink colour was used as it helped to make the aircraft blend in with the cloud base when flying just below it.

The PRU was allowed to do much as it liked and carried out its own modifications and experiments with camouflage. It is possible that some unusual schemes were trialled such as pink and mauve but none of my references mention it. There are also a lot of schemes that I see that are based mostly on false assumptions, inadequate research and even the ceiling method (dreamt up while staring at the ceiling). I have learned to be sceptical about anything for which I cannot find photographs or good documentary evidence.

Many thanks Antoni...
amazing stuff. I'm sure there are many here who will find the info very useful...no more so than me.

I found the Pink/Mauve scheme on the Don Colour site.
I thought it so interestingly unusual I posted here hoping other refs might have been known.
So far it looks like it may be unique to Don Colour.

On British experimental camo schemes it seems there is little offered in the way of info and refs. The mottled scheme Spitfire is now way up on my wish list.

Again many thanks for your fascinating insight..

Cheers
Peter
:-)

The "pink" was not, really, a pink at all; it was a pinkish-white, which was designed for low-level use, in cloudy conditions. In Europe, the setting sun can, often, tinge clouds with a pinkish hue, and the Spitfires were designed to blend into this. The problems arrived if the cloud gave out, and the pilot found himself, at low level, over green land, or blue/grey sea; it tended to make him a little nervous. Even as late as 1944, there were F.R.IX Spitfires, with 16Squadron, which were pink; the RAF Museum has colour photos. The Mauve was part of another low-level scheme, introduced late in 1944. The full scheme was Extra Dark Sea Grey & Extra Dark Sea Green, on the upper surfaces, with P.R.U. Mauve (its full title) on the undersides. No photographic proof has ever been found, of this scheme, but a Naval P.R.XIII is favourite.
Edgar Brooks

Pilots were ordered to abort the mission and return to base is there was no cloud.

The colour photographs of FR IXs were taken in Belgium and published in either The Aeroplane or Flypast a few years ago.

I did some digging around this afternoon and the first colour used by the PRU was a light green called camotint. Possibly the ‘Sky’ colour mentioned in one of the posts above. It looks close enough to Sky to be easily mistaken for it. I also found some PR VIIs (Type G) with Medium Sea Grey upper surfaces and PRU Blue under surfaces. Perhaps this scheme has been mistaken for Pink/Mauve? WHS probably still have copies of Spitfire 70 on the shelves. If you look at page 40 there is a photograph of the Mk VII prototype (not a PR Mk VII) undergoing high altitude testing. It looks to me that it is also painted MSG/PRU Blue with a sky spinner. Another scheme is a Type D PR IV which is white with PRU Blue upper wing and tail surfaces and PRU Blue on top of the nose and a very narrow strip along the fuselage spine.

The USAAFs 14th Photo Sqn 7th Photo Grp operated Spitfire PR Mk XIs. They were PRU Blue with Stars and Bars on the fuselage and upper port lower starboard wings. Spinners were painted yellow. In the winter of 1944/45 a thick red band was painted below the exhaust from the spinner to the end of the panel as a group marking. Some were given names and mission markings. I cannot see exactly what they are but they are red and circular. There are even some colour photographs of them in Wings of Fame.

"Camotint" was the invention of Sidney Cotton. He hit on the idea after he saw a pale green Lockheed 12A, owned by the Maharajah of Jodphur, take off, from Heston, and quickly disappear from view. Cotton ordered the colour from the Titanine Dope Company, and had his Lockheed painted. He then used it to photograph Germany, from the air, pre-war, even giving high-level Germans a lift, while he did so.
Edgar