_GOTOBOTTOM
World War II
Discuss WWII and the era directly before and after the war from 1935-1949.
Hosted by Rowan Baylis
Which was the best fighter, bomber etc......
TedMamere
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Moselle, France
Joined: May 15, 2005
KitMaker: 5,653 posts
AeroScale: 4,347 posts
Posted: Monday, October 09, 2006 - 04:08 PM UTC

Quoted Text

hello, here are my choices! only based on how awful/good/weird/lousy they LOOK!!



Hi Jean-Bernard!

Not a single French Aircraft in the list, that's not nice! :-)

Jean-Luc
jba
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Rhone, France
Joined: November 04, 2005
KitMaker: 1,845 posts
AeroScale: 12 posts
Posted: Monday, October 09, 2006 - 05:15 PM UTC
hi Jean-Luc!
okaaay
let's put:
twin engine fighter: Breguet 693
and especially:
twin engined bomber: Amiot 143, the amount of glassy parts in this ones is extraordinary!

Tojo72
_VISITCOMMUNITY
North Carolina, United States
Joined: June 06, 2006
KitMaker: 4,691 posts
AeroScale: 238 posts
Posted: Monday, October 09, 2006 - 06:03 PM UTC
single engine fighter...............P-51
multi engine fighter.................P-38
carrier based fighter...............Corsair
groud attack.............................P-47
single engine bomber...........Il-2m-3
twin engine bomber................B-25
multi-engine bomber..............B-24
Anti-shipping............................Avenger
dive bomber.............................Curtis Helldiver
Jet...............................................Me-262
Lucky13
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: June 01, 2006
KitMaker: 1,707 posts
AeroScale: 1,119 posts
Posted: Monday, October 09, 2006 - 07:23 PM UTC
Here's my list fellows

Single Engined Land Based Fighter: TA 152H
Single Engined Carrier Based Fighter: F4U-1A Corsair
Twin Engined Fighter: P-38L
Ground Attack: Hawker Tempest Mk VI
Single Engined Land Based Bomber: A-36 Apache
Single Engined Carrier Based Bomber: Grumman Avenger
Twin Engined Bomber: B-26G Marauder
Multi Engined Bomber: B-29 Superfortress
Land Based Dive bomber: Ju-87D
Carrier Based Dive Bomber: SBD Dauntless
Anti shipping Aircraft: B-25G Mitchell
Reconnaissance Aircraft: De Havilland Mosquito
Jet Engined Aircraft: Me 262
Flying Boat/Amfibian: PBY-5A
Nightfighter: P-61C Black Widow
Torpedo Bomber: Nakajima B6N2 Tenzan


Ok folks......now you can start throwing your SmileyCentral.com at me...... :-) :-)
JPTRR
Staff MemberManaging Editor
RAILROAD MODELING
#051
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Tennessee, United States
Joined: December 21, 2002
KitMaker: 7,772 posts
AeroScale: 3,175 posts
Posted: Monday, October 09, 2006 - 11:34 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Andy, you are right. The P-38 would blast either of those out of the sky. They could not compete in a dogfight.




Quoted Text

Mosquito - 30% greater range
Mosquito - Faster
Mosquito - 4x20mm cannon, 4x7.7mm guns (P-38 1x20mm and 4x12.7mm)

Me thinks it would all come down to the pilot again but at least this time its the brits that wouldn't go Bingo!




Hi Lee,

The only WWII RAF planes I am fond of are the Gladiator, Lancaster and the Mosquito. The Mossie is rightfully considered one of the outstanding planes of the war, but

With any airplane, one has to be careful with how one compares X with Y. Long ago I had an F-15 pilot explain how speed and “fast” don’t always mean the same thing: he tried chasing down F-111s and Tornados; F-15 is faster than either but not down where they flew, and even though F-15 should catch them, he never had the gas to chase them down. Likewise, Mosquito was fast. It was fast at altitude, and had gas to keep running. Its speed made it difficult for the short-legged Luftwaffe fighters to scramble and climb to Mosquito’s altitude, and then with an overtake of only 5-10 MPH, they’d run out of gas unless the intercept was perfect. Fer’ instance, at 380mph the Mossie would cover 38 miles every six minutes. It would take about 18-20 minutes for a Bf-109G to climb up to 36,000’, during which time the Mosquito would run 114+ miles. Even with RADAR it would take some precise vectoring to get the Bf-109 within a mile of the De Havilland. If the Jerry interceptor was only a mile behind the Mossie, it would take six minutes to close the gap with a 10mph overtake. The -109 couldn’t hit 390 with a drop tank and without the drop tank it couldn’t fly for more than about 90 minutes--and they need time to recover. But if they got in position for a shot, Mosquito went down in flames.

The fastest operational Mossie was faster than the fastest operational P-38, 422mph Vs 414mph.
PR.34 Photo-reconnaissance aircraft. Very long range development of the PR.XVI with Merlin 113 and 114 engines. This was the fastest version of the Mosquito managing 422mph in level flight.
But that was not the representative Mossie, which only reached 380 +/-. The FB Mk.VI was the most numerous and the P-38 could outrun it at probably any altitude. It could out climb the De Havilland at almost any altitude. And I dare say that the P-38 could out-range Mosquito, too (maybe not with internal fuel only). Despite their poor performance high over NE Europe, below 15000 P-38J & L were able to outmaneuver Bf-109, and even FW-190s in all except lateral transition (or whatever rate of roll is called) and zoom. Mosquito was maneuverable but she couldn’t outmaneuver these at any altitude. I read that in John Randall Daniel 'Bob' Braham’s book.
John Randall Daniel 'Bob' Braham …. the most highly decorated airman of the RAF in World War II. He claimed 29 enemy aircraft destroyed, probably destroyed one more, and damaged 6. He was the top scoring Allied ace flying twin-engine fighters…--Wikipedia
(One must be careful citing Wikipedia [a.k.a., ‘Wink-wink Ipedia‘]. Both Richard Bong and Tommy McGuire were Allied twin-engine fighter pilots and both had more than 29 kills.)

Most of Mossie’s kills were as night fighters and intruders. I dare venture to guess that few were enemy fighters in a clear air mass dogfight. All that firepower means nothing if the pilot can’t get his pipper on the target. P-38 was successful in engaging fighters in a clear air mass dogfight, albeit over the warmer MTO & North Africa.

I give De Havilland’s masterpiece deserved laurels, but they must be viewed and compared in context.
Lucky13
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: June 01, 2006
KitMaker: 1,707 posts
AeroScale: 1,119 posts
Posted: Monday, October 09, 2006 - 11:46 PM UTC
Excellent reading Fred! I was thinking earlier if you had put the same Merlin engines in the P-38 as they did in the P-51, would that had made the same difference to the Lightning as it did to the Mustang in performance??
SmileyCentral.com
FalkeEins
_VISITCOMMUNITY
England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: March 07, 2005
KitMaker: 868 posts
AeroScale: 690 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 12:48 AM UTC

..don't quite understand though why Fred is comparing the Mosquito with the P-38 ..the Mossie could do all the things listed above ...while hauling thousands of lbs of bombs....

...I don't think the Luftwaffe set up any specialist Staffeln to counter the the P-38..they certainly did with the Mosquito...to stand any chance of intercepting a Mosquito power boosted 109 Gustavs had to be loitering at high altitude along one of the Moquitos' corridors into Germany...suggest Fred reads chapter 10 of Eagle Editions history of JG 300 (Vol 1) which details every attempt by this unit to catch Mosquitos during the summer and fall of 1944 ....victories can be counted on the fingers of one hand....
JPTRR
Staff MemberManaging Editor
RAILROAD MODELING
#051
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Tennessee, United States
Joined: December 21, 2002
KitMaker: 7,772 posts
AeroScale: 3,175 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 01:35 AM UTC

Quoted Text

..don't quite understand though why Fred is comparing the Mosquito with the P-38 ..the Mossie could do all the things listed above ...while hauling thousands of lbs of bombs....



Hi Neil,

My comparison started with Big Skip's comment
Quoted Text

Best is surely subjective. I think the best twin engined fighter was the P38, but others will argue the ME110 or mosquito

. I agreed with him but another poster indicated that the Mossie was better because it was faster, longer ranged, and carried more firepower, as well as the truism
Quoted Text


Me thinks it would all come down to the pilot ...



In what I consider the definition of a twin-engine fighter in the context of this thread--a twin-engine aerocraft built to fight other aeroplanes in air-to-air combat--a like number of Mosquitos would not last long in air-to-air combat with a like number of P-38s. These fast De Havillands were essentially special-ops birds that had to avoid dog fights. They were pesky, they were dangerous, they were versitile, effective and useful, but they were not fighters. They couldn't fight fighters on even terms. P-38 could.


Quoted Text

...I don't think the Luftwaffe set up any specialist Staffeln to counter the the P-38..they certainly did with the Mosquito...



They didn't have to. P-38s came looking for the Luftwaffe.
Quoted Text

..suggest Fred reads chapter 10 of Eagle Editions history of JG 300 (Vol 1) which details every attempt by this unit to catch Mosquitos during the summer and fall of 1944 ....victories can be counted on the fingers of one hand....



For the reasons set forth above. Mosquito was at its best flying high and fast to get valuable intel, intel the Nazis didn't want us to have. Then there was the Nazi pride aspect.

But Mosquito was not a fighter as P-38 was a fighter. Mosquito was a super-powered bomber. That is why is could carry big bomb loads in a nice drag-eliminating bomb bay. P-38 could carry some 4000 lbs of bombs, all hung out and producing drag. Consider the P-38 strike against Polesti. It was a disaster, but the P-38 was still able to carry a big bomb load a long ways to bomb the refineries. Mosquito was high powered, and had many roles to fill. P-38 was not developed and redeveloped into specialized versions as Mosquito was. It did not need to be.

Mosquito was a superior light bomber, nightfighter and recon bird. P-38 was a superior air-to-air fighter. And there USAAF stopped its development. That's my point. It is not a slight against Mosquito, just an objective comaparison of who would have won in a dogfight.
Dirk-Danger
_VISITCOMMUNITY
England - North West, United Kingdom
Joined: September 06, 2006
KitMaker: 252 posts
AeroScale: 162 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 02:38 AM UTC
Fred,

I'm starting to agree with you to a certain point. However, you do keep going on about how the mossy was good at high level when in fact all its major uses and successes came at low level. I recal reading somewhere about the mossy attack on the Norwegian gestapo headquarters where one aircraft came back with bits of chimney pots embedded in its nose because they were flying so low!

Anyway, getting back to the point about twin engined best fighter - perhaps its not the mossy. But the best all round twin - definately the mossy.

Lee
JPTRR
Staff MemberManaging Editor
RAILROAD MODELING
#051
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Tennessee, United States
Joined: December 21, 2002
KitMaker: 7,772 posts
AeroScale: 3,175 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 05:59 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Anyway, getting back to the point about twin engined best fighter - perhaps its not the mossy. But the best all round twin - definately the mossy.



Hi Lee,

Second-best. Obviously you've never heard of the US Army Air Corps AT17, the Bamboo Bomber?????? :-) :-) :-)

Yes, I concur with you. Mossy, the best all round twin. Of course, the same can be said of the JU-88 which actually had a few more variants, but I would put the Mossie on top due to performance.



Quoted Text

...you do keep going on about how the mossy was good at high level when in fact all its major uses and successes came at low level.



Perhaps more appropriately '...all its most glamorous uses and successes came at low level...' I would consider its greatest successes as the nameless but essential recon missions, the annonimous nightfighter missions killing Germans over London and killing the German nightfighters that were reaping a grim harvest upon Bomber Command. :-)
Brigandine
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Dunedin, New Zealand
Joined: July 12, 2006
KitMaker: 553 posts
AeroScale: 86 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 07:42 AM UTC
The P-38 was successful - up to a point. In the 8th Air Force in Europe it couldn't compete against the FW 190 and Me 109; certainly not to the point of damaging German air power in the way the P-51-B/C & Ds did. It had the lowest servicibility rate in theatre of the three main US fighters. In N/W Europe the P-38 failed in its main role, that of fighter. By 1945 there was only one 8th AF FG using the Lightning.
The areas in which the P-38s were most successful were in the S/W Pacific (knocking down Yamamoto, said to be equivalent to winning a battle...), the Phillipines, the CBI and the Mediterranean.

So far I can't find any evidence that there ever was a test carried out in which a P-38 was pitted against a Mosquito; to say "a like number of Mosquitos would would not last long against a like number of P-38s" has never been, nor ever could be proven properly.

More to the point the Mossie carried TWO crew members - that it was able to carry out all assigned roles successfully, in an environment in which it was pitted against the best fighters available to the Luftwaffe, says a lot about it's design, and about those who flew them.

S/E Fighter - The Merlin engined P-51s. Fighting ability, long range, able to take on and beat Fw 190s and Bf 109s. helped break the Luftwaffe.

M/E Fighter - As a pure fighter? De Havilland Hornet was superb! That actually fought during the war? P-38; although it didn't succeed in N/W Europe, it did immense damage to Japanese hopes.

C/B Fighter - F6F.

G/A aircraft - IL2, by a nose over Typhoon.

S/E Bomber - Designed for role? I can't think of any that did better than the Mitsubishi Ki-51 'Sonia'. Francillon "The aircraft was so successful that, as late as 1944, a new assembly line was set up." (Japanese aircraft of the Pacific War). Can anyone think of a land based S/E bomber that WAS successful? Best S/E bomber, developed from a fighter, was the Fw 190 F/G series.

T/E Bomber - Pure bomber? De H Mosquito. Successfully pioneered concept of fast, unarmed bomber penetrating as far as Berlin in daylight with minimal loss. Became high-altitude night precision bomber and target marker, again with minimal loss.

M/E Bomber - Lancaster.

C/B Bomber - Grumman Avenger.

Dive Bomber - D3A 'Val', by a nose over Ju 87.

Anti Shipping - Beaufighter.

Recce - Designed for role: Ki-67 'Dinah'. Redesigned for role: PRU Spitfires.

Jet/Rocket - Me 262.

Jeff W.

JPTRR
Staff MemberManaging Editor
RAILROAD MODELING
#051
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Tennessee, United States
Joined: December 21, 2002
KitMaker: 7,772 posts
AeroScale: 3,175 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 09:53 AM UTC

Quoted Text

The P-38 was successful - up to a point. In the 8th Air Force in Europe it couldn't compete against the FW 190 and Me 109...It had the lowest servicibility rate in theatre of the three main US fighters. In N/W Europe the P-38 failed in its main role, that of fighter.



History bears this out--to a point. P-38E-H over NW Europe were plagued by technical problems and weather: low temperatures and high humidity (even in summer) that wreaked havoc on the engines and turbo superchargers; compressibility kept it from catching Germans in a dive or escaping in a dive. The pilots froze and windshields frosted over. Their rate of roll was poor. All of the good qualities the aircraft offered were negated by these conditions. They were failures over NW Europe as escort fighters.

P-38J and L had boosted ailerons and dive brakes. They could roll better and dive after the Germans. P-38 could turn very tight for such a big bird, tight as single engine fighters--tighter than some. With counter-rotating props it did not suffer from torque in a tight turn, and its stall was straight ahead. As such it could out-turn Bf-109Gs at most speeds, and even FW-190s--the FW had a vicious warningless stall that resulted in a 'flick', thus few pilots would fly it to its potential. IIRC, they never solved the engine/turbo problems for high altitude ops and thus serviceability stayed low. And when P-38J and L were proving they could dogfight, Gen. Doolittle had had a belly full and got rid of them as 8th AF escorts. So in that regard even the J and L were failures over NW Europe as high-altitude fighters. When they fought below 20000 they were dangerous to the Jagdwaffe.


Quoted Text

So far I can't find any evidence that there ever was a test carried out in which a P-38 was pitted against a Mosquito; to say "a like number of Mosquitos would not last long against a like number of P-38s" has never been, nor ever could be proven properly.

Power-to-weight ratio, wing loading, rate-of-roll and cornering velocity, rate-of-climb and dive, visiblity, handling, speeds, most favor P-38J/L against FB.VI. I can not find the stall speeds or G limits on either--that would really help figure out turn rate/radius. Without them, we are stuck with pilot reports.


Quoted Text

pitted against the best fighters available to the Luftwaffe

Mossie didn't go out on air-to-air missions except for night bomber escort and interceptor duty. Its job was to stay away from the best fighters available to the Luftwaffe.

Guys, don't get me wrong. Mosquito is one of THE BEST warplanes of WW2. But an air-to-air fighter is wasn't. P-38 could tangle with single-engine fighters, whereas that usaually ended badly for Mosquito. Now Mosquito was developed into Hornet, a world-class fighter.

Mosquito had the capacity to grow and adapt. It could do many things P-38 could never do. But P-38 could have been developed if P-47 and P-51 had failed, but I wonder if the limitations of the supercharghers would ever have been ironed out, allowing it to perform well over NW Europe? That remains speculation. With any fighter--any aircraft--it all comes down to the engine.
Lucky13
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: June 01, 2006
KitMaker: 1,707 posts
AeroScale: 1,119 posts
Posted: Tuesday, October 10, 2006 - 11:36 AM UTC
Kill ratio?

Hellcat 19:1
Corsair 11:1 some say 19:1
Mustang 11:1
Thunderbolt 4.6:1
They destroyed though.....
86,000 railway cars
9,000 locomotives
6,000 armored fighting vehicles
68,000 trucks
Lightning 10:1

Just to mention a few....
Siderius
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Tennessee, United States
Joined: September 20, 2005
KitMaker: 1,747 posts
AeroScale: 1,673 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 08:21 AM UTC
Thought I'd weigh in again on this twin engine debate. There seems to be a little bit of nationalism here that needs to be looked past.
The mosquito was never designed as a fighter from the outset, it was great a what is did, high speed bombing. When it was converted with a solid nose into a fighter-bomber is did well, but probably wasn't thought to survive long against single engine German fighters.
The P-38 was on the otherhand designed from the outset as a fighter! It was then capable of carrying some bombs in the fighter-bomber role.
The P-38 could hold its own against German singles, with a very high turning rate. I have a video of a P-38 in Europe being chased by a lone Focke-Wulf 190A. Just as the wingman to the FW pulls into frame, the P-38 pulls a strong turn to the left with the addition of power, pulls right out of the guns of the approaching FW! This is indeed an impressive sight.
The first fighters over Berlin I think were P-38's in the early spring of 1944.
Yes the P-38's had some engine problems at high altitudes in Europe, but with the addition of drop tanks and careful management of the engines it was a potent foe. With range, firepower, and maneuverability.
Had the Westland Whirlwind not had problems with engines, it too might of been a potent advesary in Europe. It too was designed as a twin engine fighter from the outset.
It is important to note once more that the P-47's, and P-38's broke the back of the German air force in winter '43 to spring '44. This takes nothing away from the P-51's which were great fighters in their own right. Although on a search and destroy mission ahead of the bomber stream, doing attacks on trains, or airfields I might opt for a Thunderbolt with it's big air cooled engine (no radiator to hole) or a Lightning with two engines, at least I could get home on one. Thanks for reading. Russell
Removed by original poster on 10/12/06 - 10:40:12 (GMT).
JPTRR
Staff MemberManaging Editor
RAILROAD MODELING
#051
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Tennessee, United States
Joined: December 21, 2002
KitMaker: 7,772 posts
AeroScale: 3,175 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 08:42 AM UTC
Russell, if you are so smart, then why isn't there a book titled Siderius, The Fighter Pilot Who Changed The Art Of Warfare? :-)


Quoted Text

Thought I'd weigh in again on this twin engine debate. There seems to be a little bit of nationalism here that needs to be looked past.
The mosquito was never designed as a fighter from the outset, it was great a what is did, high speed bombing. When it was converted with a solid nose into a fighter-bomber is did well, but probably wasn't thought to survive long against single engine German fighters.
The P-38 was on the otherhand designed from the outset as a fighter! It was then capable of carrying some bombs in the fighter-bomber role.
The P-38 could hold its own against German singles, with a very high turning rate. I have a video of a P-38 in Europe being chased by a lone Focke-Wulf 190A. Just as the wingman to the FW pulls into frame, the P-38 pulls a strong turn to the left with the addition of power, pulls right out of the guns of the approaching FW! This is indeed an impressive sight.
The first fighters over Berlin I think were P-38's in the early spring of 1944.
Yes the P-38's had some engine problems at high altitudes in Europe, but with the addition of drop tanks and careful management of the engines it was a potent foe. With range, firepower, and maneuverability.
Had the Westland Whirlwind not had problems with engines, it too might of been a potent advesary in Europe. It too was designed as a twin engine fighter from the outset.
It is important to note once more that the P-47's, and P-38's broke the back of the German air force in winter '43 to spring '44. This takes nothing away from the P-51's which were great fighters in their own right. Although on a search and destroy mission ahead of the bomber stream, doing attacks on trains, or airfields I might opt for a Thunderbolt with it's big air cooled engine (no radiator to hole) or a Lightning with two engines, at least I could get home on one. Thanks for reading. Russell

Removed by original poster on 10/12/06 - 11:08:57 (GMT).
JPTRR
Staff MemberManaging Editor
RAILROAD MODELING
#051
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Tennessee, United States
Joined: December 21, 2002
KitMaker: 7,772 posts
AeroScale: 3,175 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 09:08 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Kill ratio?

Hellcat 19:1
Corsair 11:1 some say 19:1
Mustang 11:1
Thunderbolt 4.6:1
They destroyed though.....
86,000 railway cars
9,000 locomotives
6,000 armored fighting vehicles
68,000 trucks
Lightning 10:1

Just to mention a few....



Hi Jan,

More stats (from U.S. NAVY FIGHTERS of WW II by Tillman & Lawson, pg 35:

Pacific Kills:

F6F --5156 KILLS *306 ACES
F4U --2140 *93 " "
P-38 --1700 *90
F4F/FM-- 1006 *58
P-40 --706 *27
P-47 --697 *32
P-51 --296 *5
P-39 --243 *1
P-61 --63 *1
Total --12,007 *706

These do not include some 1500 USAAF / AVG kills in the CBI. But over the Pacific Hellcat killed 40% of Japanese shot down, while all USN / USMC fighters accounted for 60%. Beware that numbers alone do not tell the whole story. USN had more opportunities to engage large Japanese airpower concentrations. Corsair was relegated to the backwaters during the big aerial killing season of mid-1943 to early 1945. Otherwise, Corsair would probably have just as many kills as Hellcat.
Lucky13
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Scotland, United Kingdom
Joined: June 01, 2006
KitMaker: 1,707 posts
AeroScale: 1,119 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 10:59 AM UTC
Hi Fred.....

Any idea what the numbers might be here in europe??
Bigskip
_VISITCOMMUNITY
England - South East, United Kingdom
Joined: June 27, 2006
KitMaker: 2,487 posts
AeroScale: 575 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 01:01 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Thought I'd weigh in again on this twin engine debate. There seems to be a little bit of nationalism here that needs to be looked past.



With regard to the above and as the person who seems to have started this long debate re Mossie vs P38, please take note of my nationality. I can't go into statistics regarding the two, i just think the lightning is a better plane. Like others i wonder what it would have done with Merlin engines in!

Andy
(English and Proud of it)
JPTRR
Staff MemberManaging Editor
RAILROAD MODELING
#051
_VISITCOMMUNITY
Tennessee, United States
Joined: December 21, 2002
KitMaker: 7,772 posts
AeroScale: 3,175 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 09:06 PM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Fred.....

Any idea what the numbers might be here in europe??



Hi Jan,

I've seen them but can't quote them accurately. I'll look and try to get back in a timely manner.

Roughly, in the ETO, P-38 about 1:1, P-47 4:1 and P-51 5:1. RAF is more of a mystery, I'm certain the stats are out there.

Let me again caution that simple kill:loss ratios can be misleading (Re: Corsair VS Hellcat). When P-51s were the predominate USAAF fighter over Germany the Luftwaffe had already been broken. There are many Mustang pilots who say that they flew their whole tour without seeing a German fighter in the air. But those relatively few times the relatively few GAF fighters came up to play, the P-51 slaughtered them in greater numbers than the P-47s. In summer 1944 the 56th FG, retaining their P-47s by choice, noted that while they were still bringing back their kills, the relatively inexperienced Mustang groups were usually brings back more!
 _GOTOTOP