Merlin has called for Campaign ideas down in of all places the Air Campaign (Group Build)titles for 2007. I have made some suggestions but would like to ask if some of you would head down there and vote on your favorites.
For Early Aviation I would like to suggest...
"In Enemy Hands." Real captured aircraft that were used for evals fighter schools by both sides of the lines.1915-1918 I have some great references to share.
"When I Flew with..." Pick the real fighter unit you would have flown with and add your own personalized markings Allied or Central powers.
"Dual of the aces" Pick someone to build against. Build opposing aircraft as your favorite ace or just be yourself. Describe in a narrative the combat moves that you would use against each other. The more colourful the aircraft the more colourful the narrative.
"Bloody April 1917" Build an history correct - ace's mount from Allied or Central Powers and his victim. Describing in the best detail you can the fateful combat.
"Enemy Ace vs G-8 and his Battle Aces, Pulp Fiction" Whether its was from the 1930's or the 1960's pulp book or comic book heroes. 1918 Markings per the books you reference.
"Ginger to the rescue..." Sign up with either British or German units opposing each other and go up on patrol. Describing the slug fest and try to out do each other. The advantage here is the markings and colour schemes are wide open.
The ones we don't use now we can save for coming years.
Early Aviation
Discuss World War I and the early years of aviation thru 1934.
Discuss World War I and the early years of aviation thru 1934.
Hosted by Jim Starkweather
Early Aviation "Campaigns for your approval
JackFlash
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,669 posts
AeroScale: 11,011 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 02:42 PM UTC
TreadHead
Joined: January 12, 2002
KitMaker: 5,000 posts
AeroScale: 370 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 06:42 PM UTC
Howdy Stephen 
, and "Good Mornin' " to ya!
First off, allow me to say that I just love all of your ideas!.....very good set of options there laddie
My two fav's would have to be "In Enemy Hands." , and "When I Flew with..." .
The first one would give me a chance to indulge my desire to build an example of an aircraft that carried the originally good luck symbol-inferred Haken Kruz.
Whilst the second would present the opportunity for another selfindulgence....and this is one inspired by the recent film "Flyboys". After seeing the ground crew painting each pilots personal logo on the side of their fuselage, I was magically transported back in time and space and wondered what I might choose to have painted on the side of my aircraft.......so I definiitely like that idea
All of your other choices are dandy.....the only other thing I might add to your excellent list is a Bomber based Group Build. I know most everybody thinks of the first Battle of Britian taking place in the early stages of WWII.....but for the really well-read, it actually took place in the summer of 1917. And for those who might want to argue the fact, I will gently point them to Raymond H. Fredette's excellent book on the matter entitled ' The Sky on Fire' ISBN 0-15-682750-6.
But if fighters are the quarry for 2007, then that's fine.
{besides, my 3 Gotha kits in 1/48th scale are all back in Colorado at the moment, so they are in fact, out-of-reach at the moment}
Tread.
, and "Good Mornin' " to ya!First off, allow me to say that I just love all of your ideas!.....very good set of options there laddie
My two fav's would have to be "In Enemy Hands." , and "When I Flew with..." . The first one would give me a chance to indulge my desire to build an example of an aircraft that carried the originally good luck symbol-inferred Haken Kruz.
Whilst the second would present the opportunity for another selfindulgence....and this is one inspired by the recent film "Flyboys". After seeing the ground crew painting each pilots personal logo on the side of their fuselage, I was magically transported back in time and space and wondered what I might choose to have painted on the side of my aircraft.......so I definiitely like that idea
All of your other choices are dandy.....the only other thing I might add to your excellent list is a Bomber based Group Build. I know most everybody thinks of the first Battle of Britian taking place in the early stages of WWII.....but for the really well-read, it actually took place in the summer of 1917. And for those who might want to argue the fact, I will gently point them to Raymond H. Fredette's excellent book on the matter entitled ' The Sky on Fire' ISBN 0-15-682750-6.
But if fighters are the quarry for 2007, then that's fine.
{besides, my 3 Gotha kits in 1/48th scale are all back in Colorado at the moment, so they are in fact, out-of-reach at the moment}
Tread.
Lucky13
Joined: June 01, 2006
KitMaker: 1,707 posts
AeroScale: 1,119 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 06:49 PM UTC
I'll throw in "Balloon Busters" here for consideration as well.
Limited to those WWI pilots that downed 5 or more "gasbags"
Limited to those WWI pilots that downed 5 or more "gasbags"
TreadHead
Joined: January 12, 2002
KitMaker: 5,000 posts
AeroScale: 370 posts
Posted: Wednesday, October 11, 2006 - 07:30 PM UTC
Oooooohhhhhhhhh........now that's a dandy idea Jan
I was working on a rather large scale Zeppelin project, but that was scratchbuilt from an aluminum tube spine with plastruct circles along it's length at accurate intervals. Unfortunately that project is both back in Colorado and on the back burner, but I think building anything Zeppelin-related is a fine idea!Which brings up a potential question for our good and true JackFlash.....were there any specific armament, or tools-of-the-trade employed by WWI aircraft to shoot down the 'gasbags'?
Tread.
jRatz
Joined: March 06, 2004
KitMaker: 1,171 posts
AeroScale: 151 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 12, 2006 - 06:23 AM UTC
Stephen,
Let me lead off with "I hate to waste a build on bogus markings, etc".
So, I like "When I Flew With" and "Duel of Aces" as long as authentic markings are allowed ...
We could/should allow non-ace & non-fighter aircraft ...
OTOH, for our very first campaign, we could consider just having a WW1 build, using any/all criteria of own markings, authentic, etc, just to see how many WW1 folks we get and how many models get completed ... Then we could move on to more esoteric builds ...
John
Let me lead off with "I hate to waste a build on bogus markings, etc".
So, I like "When I Flew With" and "Duel of Aces" as long as authentic markings are allowed ...
We could/should allow non-ace & non-fighter aircraft ...
OTOH, for our very first campaign, we could consider just having a WW1 build, using any/all criteria of own markings, authentic, etc, just to see how many WW1 folks we get and how many models get completed ... Then we could move on to more esoteric builds ...
John
JackFlash
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,669 posts
AeroScale: 11,011 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 12, 2006 - 09:35 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Stephen, Let me lead off with "I hate to waste a build on bogus markings, etc". So, I like "When I Flew With" and "Duel of Aces" as long as authentic markings are allowed ... We could/should allow non-ace & non-fighter aircraft ...
OTOH, for our very first campaign, we could consider just having a WW1 build, using any/all criteria of own markings, authentic, etc, just to see how many WW1 folks we get and how many models get completed ... Then we could move on to more esoteric builds ... John
Hey John;
I understand your sentiments. I love accurate, historical builds. So thats precisely the reason I included the two you mention. The options of the fantasy schemes allows for people to explore beyond just the historical perameters. Fantasy football or baseball are highly attractive to many sports fans. In the same vein modern flying replica builders often employ schemes with colours from their colllege alma maters. I still can't believe someone built a SSW D.IV in purple and gold...with a lion's head. But the point is whatever gets chosen is because the membership wants to try it.
Since the Age of Aces Campaign we have had very little to claim as our own. Movie schemes, pulp or comic book schemes would all be highly inventive. Lets just hope no one reads the Blue Max book an decides to do an early version of Bruno Stachel's Black Fokker D.VII. Profanity... egads. Then there is the real scheme Nieuport 24bis N5086 "Diana" a fully nude female figure with bow and arrow. Oh yeah this could get interesting. But lets see what the members vote for. Me, I need a quad latte...
Lucky13
Joined: June 01, 2006
KitMaker: 1,707 posts
AeroScale: 1,119 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 12, 2006 - 09:47 AM UTC
If and it's a BIG if, we should do the "When I flew with..." campaign, we should go through the "same" channels as they did back in the day before they painted their personal markings. Because that's what they did right? Otherwise you'd end with god knows what, or am I wrong?
They had to get markings approved?
They had to get markings approved?
JackFlash
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,669 posts
AeroScale: 11,011 posts
Posted: Thursday, October 12, 2006 - 04:25 PM UTC
Greetings Jan;
Certainly each air service had their assigned unit markings. This was registered with the army area commander's headquarters that the unit served in. These documents are as scarce as hens teeth but their existence has been verified.
There were variations even between the RNAS and RFC . For the BEF this was all standardized in 1918.
The Germans group, unit, machine markings have made a great study of their own.
The AEF had strict guidelines for markings.
The Fench are well known for most units.
The problem we will run into is everyone will probably have individual kits that they want to build so we are going to get quite a cross-section of machines.
Certainly each air service had their assigned unit markings. This was registered with the army area commander's headquarters that the unit served in. These documents are as scarce as hens teeth but their existence has been verified.
There were variations even between the RNAS and RFC . For the BEF this was all standardized in 1918.
The Germans group, unit, machine markings have made a great study of their own.
The AEF had strict guidelines for markings.
The Fench are well known for most units.
The problem we will run into is everyone will probably have individual kits that they want to build so we are going to get quite a cross-section of machines.
jRatz
Joined: March 06, 2004
KitMaker: 1,171 posts
AeroScale: 151 posts
Posted: Friday, October 27, 2006 - 06:56 AM UTC
Stephen:
I'm trying to figure out what campaign to vote for.
Please explain "Bloody April 1917" Build an history correct - ace's mount from Allied or Central Powers and his victim. Describing in the best detail you can the fateful combat.
Must aircraft/combat take place in April 1917 or is the period broader ?
Do I understand that we'd have to build two models -- an Ace and the opponent ?
Does the "Ace" have to be an "Ace" in April '17 or could this be an early combat of a future ace ?
Thx,
John
I'm trying to figure out what campaign to vote for.
Please explain "Bloody April 1917" Build an history correct - ace's mount from Allied or Central Powers and his victim. Describing in the best detail you can the fateful combat.
Must aircraft/combat take place in April 1917 or is the period broader ?
Do I understand that we'd have to build two models -- an Ace and the opponent ?
Does the "Ace" have to be an "Ace" in April '17 or could this be an early combat of a future ace ?
Thx,
John
JackFlash
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,669 posts
AeroScale: 11,011 posts
Posted: Friday, October 27, 2006 - 08:17 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Stephen:
I'm trying to figure out what campaign to vote for.
Please explain "Bloody April 1917" Build an history correct - ace's mount from Allied or Central Powers and his victim. Describing in the best detail you can the fateful combat....Thx,
John
Greetings John;
There are three posts here to help others as well. You may want to skip to the third for a quick answer. Bloody April was a tough time for the RFC. The book Bloody April..Black September is really good source for your question. But they do not seemed to publish the official German scores for this month as follows:
The German claimed 362 e/a and 29 Ballons this month. Of the e/a fell 12 on other fronts and no balloons.
291 e/a were claimed in air combat on the West Front and 8 on other fronts.
German Flak units claimed 48 e/a on the West Front and 4 on other fronts. Of the Flak claims on the West Front fell 28 within German Lines and 20 over enemy lines. 4 more e/a were claimed by Flak units as Forced down over enemy lines(These were not officialy confirmed).
11 e/a were claimed as Forced landings within German lines, all on West Front. Of the total e/a fell 171 within German lines. 169 of these on West Front and 2 on other Fronts.
Thus 299 + 52 + 11 = Total = 362
The German also sometimes had victories which were reconfirmed. And perhaps a few victories should be added to these but its difficult to make any correction with the material we have today.
JackFlash
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,669 posts
AeroScale: 11,011 posts
Posted: Friday, October 27, 2006 - 08:30 AM UTC
The German also officialy recorded their losses in April 1917 as follows:
66 aircraft was lost on the West front and 8 on other front.
10 Balloons were lost, all on West front.
Of the total of aircraft were 39 lost in Air combat on West front and 4 on other fronts =43.
23 aircraft went missing on the West front and 4 on other fronts.
3 aircraft was lost due enemy Flak, all on West front.
1 more aircraft was reported lost on West front by other reason.
So 43 + 27 + 3 + 1 = Total = 74 aircraft.
But for the aviation historian this is not the whole truth. The Germans like the other countries involved in the War seldom talled the whole truth regarding their own losses especially in Daily and monthly reports. In general terms by the knowledge we had today You might double the German losses in long terms to come near some acceptable truth.
The reason for that is that the German does not seems to counted aircraft in their monthly reports which came down with wounded or unwounded crews within their own lines. So a guess without examination their actual losses for April which infact can be found in Kofl reports etc...is around 150 +- 50 = 200 aircraft.
66 aircraft was lost on the West front and 8 on other front.
10 Balloons were lost, all on West front.
Of the total of aircraft were 39 lost in Air combat on West front and 4 on other fronts =43.
23 aircraft went missing on the West front and 4 on other fronts.
3 aircraft was lost due enemy Flak, all on West front.
1 more aircraft was reported lost on West front by other reason.
So 43 + 27 + 3 + 1 = Total = 74 aircraft.
But for the aviation historian this is not the whole truth. The Germans like the other countries involved in the War seldom talled the whole truth regarding their own losses especially in Daily and monthly reports. In general terms by the knowledge we had today You might double the German losses in long terms to come near some acceptable truth.
The reason for that is that the German does not seems to counted aircraft in their monthly reports which came down with wounded or unwounded crews within their own lines. So a guess without examination their actual losses for April which infact can be found in Kofl reports etc...is around 150 +- 50 = 200 aircraft.
JackFlash
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,669 posts
AeroScale: 11,011 posts
Posted: Friday, October 27, 2006 - 08:40 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Stephen:
I'm trying to figure out what campaign to vote for.
Please explain "Bloody April 1917" Build an history correct - ace's mount from Allied or Central Powers and his victim. Describing in the best detail you can the fateful combat.
Must aircraft/combat take place in April 1917 or is the period broader ?
Do I understand that we'd have to build two models -- an Ace and the opponent ? Does the "Ace" have to be an "Ace" in April '17 or could this be an early combat of a future ace ?
Thx,
John
Now that I explained what Bloody April 1917 is, let me say that we have not been too strict in its application. The Ace could have become and Ace later on. (Using the term "Ace" in the venacular has different standards for each combatant nation. Five victories is typical for the allies. lets say 5 victories minimum. Yes the combat has to have taken place somewhere between April 1 - 30, 1917. Though it can be any two combatants that actually meet during that time period and yes that would entail two builds. But To make it easy. If you already have one model in hand we could allow that you simply build its opposite.
JackFlash
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,669 posts
AeroScale: 11,011 posts
Posted: Friday, October 27, 2006 - 08:52 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Oooooohhhhhhhhh........now that's a dandy idea Jan
Which brings up a potential question for our good and true JackFlash.....were there any specific armament, or tools-of-the-trade employed by WWI aircraft to shoot down the 'gasbags'?
Tread.
Greetings Tread sorry I didn't get to this post right away. While there were variations in armament the real tool of the trade as it were was tracer rounds. Instead of one out of every 10 or 12 rounds being tracers they used one out of every 3 or 4 rounds.
Later the British did develop a Vickers 11mm for balloon busting but outwardly it is difficult to tell the 7mm from the 11mm versions.
Merlin
Senior Editor
#017
Joined: June 11, 2003
KitMaker: 17,582 posts
AeroScale: 12,795 posts
Posted: Friday, October 27, 2006 - 07:50 PM UTC
Hi all
The Poll is now open, so get voting for the first Early Aviation campaign to run from January-to-June next year.
All the best
Rowan
The Poll is now open, so get voting for the first Early Aviation campaign to run from January-to-June next year.
All the best
Rowan
jRatz
Joined: March 06, 2004
KitMaker: 1,171 posts
AeroScale: 151 posts
Posted: Saturday, October 28, 2006 - 07:22 AM UTC
Stephen,
Not that I don't appreciate the history, but I expressed my question poorly. I should have said "Please explain the Campaign ..." . I know what Bloody April was, etc ... I was just trying to figure the parameters.
I guess I like that one best -- it will force me to do something out of my interest level -- ie, I have only one German kit in the house & that is the Staaken ...
John
Not that I don't appreciate the history, but I expressed my question poorly. I should have said "Please explain the Campaign ..." . I know what Bloody April was, etc ... I was just trying to figure the parameters.
I guess I like that one best -- it will force me to do something out of my interest level -- ie, I have only one German kit in the house & that is the Staaken ...
John
 |
WEB HOSTING BY
Copyright ©2021 AeroScale and Kitmaker Network, a subsidiary of Silver Star Enterprises
All Rights Reserved. Please read our Conditions of Use and Privacy Policy.
All Rights Reserved. Please read our Conditions of Use and Privacy Policy.