Hi all:

Does anybody knows if this car was used in England during the first years of WW2 ?

...and what colour were the ground vehicles used by the RAF in the same period ?

Thanks.

From all the information, I have, RAF vehicles were the same brown as Army vehicles; the blue was post-war. The Citroen 2CV, I'm sure, was, also, post-war; I can't remember seeing a "pregnant roller-skate" before the 1970s.
Edgar

Hi Edgar:

Thanks for your answer. The car that I´m talking is the 11 CV that was first build in France in 1934. As you have said the 2 CV was from the 70.s.

Carlos

Hi all:

I found this info in the web and I believe it´s interesting to share it here:

UK - NW Europe/Home service

Colours BS381c 1930 and 987c of 1942-45. Standard supplied pre-mixed. BS987c colours are referred to as “Standard Camouflage Colours” with a number – e.g.. SCC2 or SCC14.

Patterns MTP 20 and 26 of 1939 and 46 of 1941, Vehicle markings 1943. MTP20 gives general guides, 46 specific patterns, generally adhered to.

Applied by a. factory b. REME/RE base depots.

Documents MTPs referred to above and ACIs 175 and 225 (May 1938); 96 (Feb. 1939); 837 (Dec.39); 465 (May 40), 1559 (Aug 41); 2202 (Nov. 41), 1160 (May 42); 1496 (Oct.43); 533 (April 44); 1100 (Aug 1944).

Notes
There is a high correlation between official documentation, contemporary photographs, supplemented by veterans accounts which means that there is little gap between theory and practice here. British crews seldom camouflage painted their own vehicles, this being done in the factory, or by RE/REME units at base depots rather than in the front line. Painting/re-painting was essentially part of vehicle maintenance. The vast majority of this painting was done with pre-mixed paint conforming to one of the two British Standards given in table to, and according to patterns laid down in the relevant documentation, or at worst conforming to their general spirit. There were clearly time delays in implementation, and misunderstandings, confusions and short cutting, but enough was done more or less by the book, more or less when the book said for documentation to allow fairly confident statements to be made about the colours in a given photo, or for the appearance of a model to be reconstructed when neither is available. Hence all the evidence suggests that a Matador Models Covenanter would be painted in two colours following MTP 20, and badged according to contemporary practice even if we didn't have good photos of most Covenanter units. However the same pattern and colours would be most unlikely on a Tamiya Cromwell, even if we didn't have a photo to work from.

From August 1941 RAF vehicles conformed to the relevant ACIs and MTPs. Before this point, apart from some ad hoc painting, they were overall BS381c No.33 Blue Grey – virtually Humbrol 77, or 77 with a touch of grey only. This is very definitely NOT “RAF Blue” as we might understand it – say Humbrol 96, or the colour of an RAF uniform. The one lead I have on Royal Navy vehicles, a chance phone call from someone who is restoring one, suggests that whilst the RAF were using No.33 they were using No.32 Admiralty Dark Grey. If this is so, then Humbrol 112 is a fair match.

If we discount the Middle East which issued its own instructions on patterns, photographic evidence shows British vehicles conforming to patterns from one of two Military Training Pamphlets - MTP 20 of June 1939 and MTP 46 of 1941, with Part 4a of November that year that most often quoted. For convenience, although probably not using the terms historically, these two MTP numbers can be used as shorthand to describe patterns. Various Army Council Instructions set out the Colours to be used, if the MTP didn't state this or if changes were needed.

Given these basic patterns and a range of colours anyone painting a British vehicle could set up some very flexible effects. Colours for MTP20 were originally from the 1930 BS381c, but later colours from the 1942 BS 987c were used, with this range, usually identified by a number and an SCC (Standard Camouflage Colour) prefix coming to predominated on MTP 46 schemes. Most typically the tones were browns until the introduction of SCC 15 (olive drab) in 1944. The British Standards were for pre-mixed colours which were to conform to the specified standards. Colour photographs and careful interviews with veterans confirm that they were used.

The changeover from one range to the next was by no means hard and fast, and so even after D-Day when SCC 15 predominated, it is difficult to be certain when another shade is around. In broad terms the survival of early Khaki Greens/Bronze Greens would be unlikely in 1944, but browns were still around after D-Day, especially on softskins.

One complication is that few of the BS987c colours had official names, and hence what we have are virtually nicknames, for example "Desert Pink" for SCC11b. This makes life very awkward as "dark green" in a contemporary document could be one of the BS381c Bronze Greens or a BS987c SCC7 or even 15. However it is possible to work towards reasonable certainly by looking at dates and contexts.

In Summary

Colours Pattern
1939-41 Greens from BS381c MTP 20 style
1941-42 BS987c colours appear MTP 20, MTP46 appears
1942-44 BS987c SCCs predominate MTP46 predominates
1944-45 SCC15 from BS987c None after August 44

The main base tones and mixes are on the MAFVA website

Link to the site were I gathered the info:

http://matadormodels.co.uk/tank_museum/xcamo_ww2uk.ht

Now it only rests the question about the Citröen 11 CV.

Hi Chaps,
You're right about 11CV, it was built since early thirties and after the war up until 1955 when the fabulous Citroen DS19 replaced the Traction Avant family. However 2CV was designed before the war, and several prototypes were even built. Unfortunately war stopped it from being mass produced. Nevertheless the proper 2CV was introduced in 1948, and not as you said in 1970's. Some 2CV's were still in production in 1990's as 2cv Charleston. This in the end does not answer your initial question about the 11CV Carlos and I'm sorry that I can't help you. I must also apology for the .

Cheers
Greg