I have searched the Aerodrome forums and found the following
http://www.theaerodrome.com/forum/archive/index.php/t-10379.html
If i understood it correctly, the boundary between the two colors starts on the 7th rib counting from the wingtip at the trailing edge... but how much sloped is this boundary? where does it end along the leading edge?
Here is a picture of a completed model, I want to know if the pattern is correctly applied at least for the top wing
I understand that the lower wing is the reverse of the top wing, whatever is the scheme used, but I want to ask, do the "slopingt" of the bottom wing follow the upper wing or it's the opposite
To clarify my question if / and are the boundaries between colors, or to be precise, the way they slope or slant then
if
Top wing green / mauve green (as in the picture)
then
Bottom wing green / mauve [fuselage] mauve green
or
Bottom wing green mauve [fuselage] mauve / green (reverse sloping)
Was reverse sloping ever used? As "reverse sloping" I mean that instead of making an arrow head flowing in the direction of flight, they form an V opposed to the direction of flight. I don't think so, but I want to be sure.
Also, were there variations where only 2 zones of color were used or the slopes were all in the same direction, slanted towards one side? Like in this picture , I want to know if it's a correct scheme
Early Aviation
Discuss World War I and the early years of aviation thru 1934.
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Q about Albatros green and mauve camo pattern
Romani
Madrid, Spain / Espaņa
Joined: December 19, 2006
KitMaker: 14 posts
AeroScale: 13 posts
Joined: December 19, 2006
KitMaker: 14 posts
AeroScale: 13 posts
Posted: Monday, December 18, 2006 - 10:52 PM UTC
JackFlash
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,669 posts
AeroScale: 11,011 posts
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,669 posts
AeroScale: 11,011 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 12:58 AM UTC
In classic fashion it depends. The locations of colours in the two or three colour painted camouflage on the upper surfaces of the wings changed every fifty or so machines. When this changed the angle that they were laid at changed as well. Our friend Dan-San has done a highly proficient study of this subject. In the two colour sometimes lt. green was on the outer tips sometimes it was the dk green. In the three colour from the left the sequence could begin with Red Brown, lt. green or dark green.
By the way Romani it is good to see you here. Check with WWI Aero #129 as Dan's article on the subject was published there. I will ask him to write a bit for us here.
By the way Romani it is good to see you here. Check with WWI Aero #129 as Dan's article on the subject was published there. I will ask him to write a bit for us here.
Dan-San
California, United States
Joined: January 28, 2006
KitMaker: 29 posts
AeroScale: 28 posts
Joined: January 28, 2006
KitMaker: 29 posts
AeroScale: 28 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 01:00 AM UTC
Romani:
The Alb.D.III was built by its parent company, Albatros Werke G.m.b.H., (Alb), Johannisthal and Ostdeutsche Werke, Schneidemuehl, (Albs or later OAW).
The machine you modeled was built by Albatros Werke. The wings, tailplane and rudder were camouflaged in three colors, light green, olive green and rust brown on the upper surfaces. The rudder was painted the same color as the center color on the tailplane. The undersides of the wings, tailplane and wheel covers were light sky blue. All 1916 Albatros built Alb.D.III machines had painted camouflage schemes and can be distinguished by straight trailing edge on the rudder.
There were at least six patterns used and all were asymetrical. Forward is /
Upper wing patterns:
1. [---------/ ----/ ----- ], 2.[ ------ / ------/ ------ ] 3. [----- ----------------].
The pale green was most often was the dominant color covering the largist area.
Generally the slope / in the pattern was the same on the lower wing. the early schemes on the lower wings were:
[-------/-----[ body]-----/--------] or [---/ ---------[ body ] -------------].
The areas differed from pattern to pattern, the sprayed color separation edges were diffused.
The tailplane was divided chordwise in a gentle slope [---/--/ --] or [-------] spanning one rib bay.
The rudder was painted the same color as the center color on the tailplane.
The Alb.D.III machines with serial numbers D.600/17 to D.649/17 and D.750/17 to D.799/17 were camouflaged in two colors on the upper surfaces dark green and pale green with sky blue under surfaces.
The Alb.D.III built by OAW were delivered in two camouflage schemes, painted or covered with printed five color fabric.
On the painted schemes the colors were divided by a hard curved line were on the upper wing (up ^):
1.Mauve / dark green / mauve or 2. dark green / mauve / dark green.
Lower wing;
3.Dark green / mauve [ body] mauve dark green or,
4.Mauve/ dark green [ body] dark green mauve.
There was also a curvy chordwise line, [------l------l-------] pattern.
The tailplane was divided spanwise from tip to tip with a hard curvy line. The were two patterns, mauve forward and dark green aft or dark green forward and mauve aft.
The rudder was painted pale yellow ochre to match the fin.
The fuselage was shellaced anf varnished. It is my belief the schellac was tinted yellow.
Mauve is not purple, it is a pale slightly bluish pink. I refer you to Windsock Datafile, ALBATROS D.III by Peter M.Grosz. See photo bottom of page 59 for a typical OAW pattern. The light areas are mauve.
I would suggest research on a specific plane before modeling.
Merry Christmas,
Dan-San
The Alb.D.III was built by its parent company, Albatros Werke G.m.b.H., (Alb), Johannisthal and Ostdeutsche Werke, Schneidemuehl, (Albs or later OAW).
The machine you modeled was built by Albatros Werke. The wings, tailplane and rudder were camouflaged in three colors, light green, olive green and rust brown on the upper surfaces. The rudder was painted the same color as the center color on the tailplane. The undersides of the wings, tailplane and wheel covers were light sky blue. All 1916 Albatros built Alb.D.III machines had painted camouflage schemes and can be distinguished by straight trailing edge on the rudder.
There were at least six patterns used and all were asymetrical. Forward is /
Upper wing patterns:
1. [---------/ ----/ ----- ], 2.[ ------ / ------/ ------ ] 3. [----- ----------------].
The pale green was most often was the dominant color covering the largist area.
Generally the slope / in the pattern was the same on the lower wing. the early schemes on the lower wings were:
[-------/-----[ body]-----/--------] or [---/ ---------[ body ] -------------].
The areas differed from pattern to pattern, the sprayed color separation edges were diffused.
The tailplane was divided chordwise in a gentle slope [---/--/ --] or [-------] spanning one rib bay.
The rudder was painted the same color as the center color on the tailplane.
The Alb.D.III machines with serial numbers D.600/17 to D.649/17 and D.750/17 to D.799/17 were camouflaged in two colors on the upper surfaces dark green and pale green with sky blue under surfaces.
The Alb.D.III built by OAW were delivered in two camouflage schemes, painted or covered with printed five color fabric.
On the painted schemes the colors were divided by a hard curved line were on the upper wing (up ^):
1.Mauve / dark green / mauve or 2. dark green / mauve / dark green.
Lower wing;
3.Dark green / mauve [ body] mauve dark green or,
4.Mauve/ dark green [ body] dark green mauve.
There was also a curvy chordwise line, [------l------l-------] pattern.
The tailplane was divided spanwise from tip to tip with a hard curvy line. The were two patterns, mauve forward and dark green aft or dark green forward and mauve aft.
The rudder was painted pale yellow ochre to match the fin.
The fuselage was shellaced anf varnished. It is my belief the schellac was tinted yellow.
Mauve is not purple, it is a pale slightly bluish pink. I refer you to Windsock Datafile, ALBATROS D.III by Peter M.Grosz. See photo bottom of page 59 for a typical OAW pattern. The light areas are mauve.
I would suggest research on a specific plane before modeling.
Merry Christmas,
Dan-San
JackFlash
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,669 posts
AeroScale: 11,011 posts
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,669 posts
AeroScale: 11,011 posts
Posted: Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 01:13 AM UTC
Dan-San. The man!
For other views of my Albatros D. type fighters and their camouflage see;
https://aeroscale.kitmaker.net//features/1270
For other views of my Albatros D. type fighters and their camouflage see;
https://aeroscale.kitmaker.net//features/1270
Romani
Madrid, Spain / Espaņa
Joined: December 19, 2006
KitMaker: 14 posts
AeroScale: 13 posts
Joined: December 19, 2006
KitMaker: 14 posts
AeroScale: 13 posts
Posted: Sunday, December 24, 2006 - 11:33 PM UTC
Dear Dan San, apologies for being so late in replying, I've been very busy with my new job assignment , I wish you a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year and I thank you very much for providing this info. The model pictured is not mine, I wish I could model so well! I was just linking the photo to illustrate the point.
And I thought that lozenge cammo was complicated... oh well, half the fun of building a model is the historical research. I only had a couple top views and box art to illustrate how green and mauve was applied. I will henceforth endeavour to apply the correct pattern to my 1/72 models and even the 1/144 gaming minis... even if most people can't tell !
Just one precision, you say the slope on the tailplane extended one (1) rib, but what about the slope in the wings? did it extend 3 wing ribs as in the top view of the model I modest.
I understand that I must find pictures of the specific plane, but I am asking because in most photographs the top surface of the wing isn't visible and just needed a generic guideline of what can be a correct pattern, it might not be the one used in an exact airframe, but at least is a correct one. For gaming purposes it's enough.
Thank you for pointing out the references, I have the Albatros DV datafile and the Squadron Signal book, I will try to find the DIII
Of special interest was the following bit of info
That resembles similar practice in the French SPAD VII where the engine cowling was painted a similar color to the yellowish Clear Doped Linen of the fabric surfaces, but that makes me wonder, if the rudder in the Albatros wasn't simply CDL? Though if you say it was painted yellow ochre, it must be so.
Also, it becomes clear now why the pattern was reversed every 50 aircraft, is simply a matter of paint economy, to use the same amount of green and mauve paint.
And Stephen, the answer to your signature is : Yes!
:-)
And I thought that lozenge cammo was complicated... oh well, half the fun of building a model is the historical research. I only had a couple top views and box art to illustrate how green and mauve was applied. I will henceforth endeavour to apply the correct pattern to my 1/72 models and even the 1/144 gaming minis... even if most people can't tell !
Just one precision, you say the slope on the tailplane extended one (1) rib, but what about the slope in the wings? did it extend 3 wing ribs as in the top view of the model I modest.
I understand that I must find pictures of the specific plane, but I am asking because in most photographs the top surface of the wing isn't visible and just needed a generic guideline of what can be a correct pattern, it might not be the one used in an exact airframe, but at least is a correct one. For gaming purposes it's enough.
Thank you for pointing out the references, I have the Albatros DV datafile and the Squadron Signal book, I will try to find the DIII
Of special interest was the following bit of info
Quoted Text
he rudder was painted pale yellow ochre to match the fin.
That resembles similar practice in the French SPAD VII where the engine cowling was painted a similar color to the yellowish Clear Doped Linen of the fabric surfaces, but that makes me wonder, if the rudder in the Albatros wasn't simply CDL? Though if you say it was painted yellow ochre, it must be so.
Also, it becomes clear now why the pattern was reversed every 50 aircraft, is simply a matter of paint economy, to use the same amount of green and mauve paint.
And Stephen, the answer to your signature is : Yes!
:-)
Dan-San
California, United States
Joined: January 28, 2006
KitMaker: 29 posts
AeroScale: 28 posts
Joined: January 28, 2006
KitMaker: 29 posts
AeroScale: 28 posts
Posted: Monday, December 25, 2006 - 11:21 AM UTC
Romani:
I'll try to answer all your questions.
Albatros Werke Johannistahl
1. The slope of the upper wing camouflage on Albatros built D.III was about two rib bays. The lower wing camouflage was slightly less, the slope angle was approximately the same, The slope of the camouflage on the tailplane was approximately one rib bay.
2. The rudder on Albatros built was painted the same color as the middle color, however not always. That requires checking photographs.
3. The Albatros Werke used spray guns with pressurized covered pots, Defilbis spray gun system. All camouflage schemes were assymetrical.
4. No Johannistahl built Alb.D.III was covered with printed fabric.
Ostdeutsche Albatros Werke Schneidemuhl.
A. On all OAW built Alb.D.III the had the rounded rudder.
B. The OAW built Alb.D.III that were not covered with five color intermediate pattern printed fabric, had symetrical camouflage schemes.
Printed fabrics in 1917.
I will investigate the printed fabric further. In 1917 when the printed fabric was introduced, several manufacturers used the light lower five color pattern on the upper surfaces of the wings, tailplane, rudder and wheel covers and plain unprinted fabric on the under surfaces. I don't know why this was done, I can only surmise they had not printed the top fabric pattern. I discuss this in "Schlachtflieger!" in some detail.
I have intended reviewing Alb.D.III(OAW) and Alb.D.V (Albatros) photos. I have a suspicion that Albatros did also. I am not too sure of OAW.
Have a Happy New Year,
Dan-San
I'll try to answer all your questions.
Albatros Werke Johannistahl
1. The slope of the upper wing camouflage on Albatros built D.III was about two rib bays. The lower wing camouflage was slightly less, the slope angle was approximately the same, The slope of the camouflage on the tailplane was approximately one rib bay.
2. The rudder on Albatros built was painted the same color as the middle color, however not always. That requires checking photographs.
3. The Albatros Werke used spray guns with pressurized covered pots, Defilbis spray gun system. All camouflage schemes were assymetrical.
4. No Johannistahl built Alb.D.III was covered with printed fabric.
Ostdeutsche Albatros Werke Schneidemuhl.
A. On all OAW built Alb.D.III the had the rounded rudder.
B. The OAW built Alb.D.III that were not covered with five color intermediate pattern printed fabric, had symetrical camouflage schemes.
Printed fabrics in 1917.
I will investigate the printed fabric further. In 1917 when the printed fabric was introduced, several manufacturers used the light lower five color pattern on the upper surfaces of the wings, tailplane, rudder and wheel covers and plain unprinted fabric on the under surfaces. I don't know why this was done, I can only surmise they had not printed the top fabric pattern. I discuss this in "Schlachtflieger!" in some detail.
I have intended reviewing Alb.D.III(OAW) and Alb.D.V (Albatros) photos. I have a suspicion that Albatros did also. I am not too sure of OAW.
Have a Happy New Year,
Dan-San