Hi,

I'm currently building an Fw-190 D9 and now I find myself in need of some pointers with exterior colors.
I got an aviprint decal sheet for it and while I was checking the colors needed for the camo scheme, I got a little confused.
Here's pics of the instructions:


(all the color try-outs are xtracrylics except the middle dark green, which is vallejo air RLM71, other dark greens should be 83)

First I noticed that my xtracrylics bottles have the numbers mixed up on 82 and 83. The labels say "lichtgrün RLM 83" and "dunkelgrün RLM 82", which I think should the other way round? (I checked IPMS-stockholm's paint charts and they say 82 and 83 are often cunfused with each other)

Okay, I thought it was just the numbers wrong, but the dark green didn't look right compared to the pictures. The lower pic shows the color samples on the instructions sheet. (three samples side by side in the middle are the dark greens) They look darkish because they're gloss and the coats are thick (applied with a cocktail stick), but the xtracrylics dunkelgrün (on the left) doesn't look right. It's like more blueish or something.
In the middle is vallejo air's equivalent for RLM 71, which looks much better compared to the drawing. The sample on the right is xtracrylics RLM71, which looks good too (xtracrylics' will be be lighter when airbrushed and varnished).

So, what should I paint my plane with?
Is it with the instruction's text, drawings, mislabelled paints, or is it just me and my color vision finally giving up the ghost?

Hi Eetu

1. go and buy yourself the Fw 190 D-9 (pt.1) book by JaPo .... if you plan to do more D-9 in the future, it is the best source on Fw 190 D colours out there ... with part 2 to follow sooo (?)

2. do not trust printed colour information (esp. not in decal sheets). the drawing is an artists impression, which is altered during the printing process!

The whole colour debate is a little boring .. try to make yourself a picture on how the colour should look, choose a colour line which fits your impression best (you could also pick the colours from different manufacturers, but you have to check how they interact)

Explanation:

1. if you use the proper WW2 original colour on a model, it would just look wrong, so you have to lighten it to get a scale effect

2. especially the late war colours are subject of large debates ..
2.a. old colour stocks had to be used first, so the use of prewar or early war colours (63,64, 70, 71) is possible
2.b. official colour charts change over the time (official mixtures and hue)
2.c. different colour manufacturers used different mixtures to save rare raw material .. so some colours have different hues (well know RLM 76, but there are others too)
2.d. the existence and the hues of the 81,82,83 colours are debated too

3, on a model the different layers after the main colours are on have a large influence on how it looks finished (several layers of gloss cote for the decals, washings, final flat cote, pastels ...)

4. colour impressions are highly subjective

There is more that influences the look of a colour, not to mention the appearance it makes on colour photos or even b/w ... you can't get it 100% right for every model you will build. But of course you can get close

if you want to get into this,buy yourself the 2 vol. Merrick book (Luftwaffe C&M, Classic Pub./Ian Allan) and the Luftwaffe Colors book by Ullman (Hikoki, oop) Also the aforementioned Fw book is a good addition. ... BTW I have not read Merrick yet (first have to get over that 100 Pound r/o), but the colour charts are a good start to get a picture

So in your case I would go with 75 and either 71 or the lighter green in the 80ies range

I hope my longish post does help you a little

best wishes

Steffen

Eetu, might I suggest doing a google search for photos of this aircraft. When the books and didn't help on my Me262 I found that hitting the search button worked best for me. Even those webpages had joined the color debate but they all did agree on one thing Natural Metal. Trust me on this one you wing area is RLM75 for the leading edges and Aluminum for the rest of the wing. The RLM 76 is only on the fuselage and that is debatable. Your aircraft reminds of Red 15 a Dora that has been under much scrutiny and in the same scheme as this one you're building. The final verdict there was only the nose was painted RLM 76 as they came from a diffenrt maufacturer than the rest of the aircraft. Hope that helped out in some of the confusion. STUG



PS I though I was the only one addicted to late war Natural Metal birds, glad to know I'm not only suicidal person here.lol :-)

Yes, that plane got natural metal, two thirds of the wings (minus ailerons), one third RLM75, and the rest of the bottom RLM 76. Well, at least according to those instructions. But I presume they'd take the same with their decal sheets as their reference books?

What about the natural metal? The most attractive option on the sheet has some, so I'll paint it. And hope for the best...
Btw, is it possible to airbrush metallics without taking the risk of having my airbrush spitting metal flakes to all paintwork after that? (with handbrushing, I learnt it the hard way to have separate brushes for metallics as well as thinner containers I wouldn't want to make the same mistake with an expensive airbrush) Or does it just take more careful cleaning to really scrub the whole instrument clean?



That's what I've been doing. I have RLM paints from both vallejo and xtracrylics, and comparing them, most shades I have show just minor differences. Only 83's have any larger difference, and on this issue, I'm leaning toward Xtracrylics, since they are said to have been matched to RLM directly, not renamed F.S shades.

It now seems that the manufacturer goofed and reversed the numbers on RLM 82 & 83. I did a few searches and several paint chart say that 82 is light and 83 dark green. But then, IPMS stockholm's German paint chart points out two shades for 83 and says that 82 and 83 are often confused with each other.
http://www.ipmsstockholm.org/colorcharts/stuff_eng_colorcharts_germany.htm

This list shows the (IMO) reversed numbers, from 2004. I don't know if they've been fixed later.
https://aeroscale.kitmaker.net/news/657




I tried that by typing the werke nummer and hitting search. I came up with a few interesting hits.
Wings palette wasn't of much help. There was one side profile drawing, from a Russian publication, I don't know how old and sporting quite a strange camo scheme and markings when compared to the newer material at hand (not much of that either).
http://wp.scn.ru/en/ww2/f/456/2/3/31
Among the good-looking hits were a few forums, one with discussion about whether the aircraft was a red (decal sheet) or black 18 (the russian drawing). Red was confirmed as correct. http://forum.12oclockhigh.net/archive/index.php?t-1648.html



That looks like the best option. 75 and 76 are clear choices. I presume 82 is the one for the light green. That would then leave 71 as a viable candidate for the darker green, although I'll have to test-spray the greens before I make the final choices.
That 83 looks quite good too. When you compare the greens in the instructions' drawing, there's a difference in hue, while the difference between 71 and 82 seems to be mainly in shade.

There's still a good way to go 'till I'm in the painting stage, so opinions and recommendations are extremely welcome.

Hi Eetu,

Everyone else have given you good council, here is a bit more.

I finally got a Monogram Official Luftwaffe Colors book of the early 80s, Mr. Merrick is an author of it. I understand that this tome has held up well but recent research shows the need for some revisions. RLM 81, 82 & 83 are confusing, apparently RLM even mixed them up in official documents. IIRC, 82 & 83 should be swapped.

I have Yellow 13 and it is the first book to document that many Doras had an unpainted bottom wing, except as you mentioned.

This probably doe not really help but might help put your mind at reat.

Eetu, Yes you can shoot metilizers through your airbrush without hurting future finishes. I usually just shoot one kit ata time then when it's all done I go ahead and clean it out with a nice laquer thinner to make sure there are no other pigments left behind. As with any paint though you just need to make sure you do a good job cleaning you airbrush. HTH stug

Any pics of the final product? This is great. I'm working on a Dora too. I have a friend taking pics for me. Let's compare?

Mark

Sure, let's do that.
I'm currently done with basic construction and ready for priming. I was thinking about starting a thread with some WIP pictures and then the finished plane.
Btw, are you building Tamiya's kit or one of the numerous boxings originating from the Trimaster moulds?
This original Trimaster kit has been great except for a few things. The landing gear legs are problematic to get to the correct angle and the drag link fitting. Also, I'm not that fond of steel PE, although annealing them with ligher makes them much easier to handle. The minor wing root fit issue was quite easily corrected with a piece of sprue glued inside the fuselage to spread it slightly and gluing a thin strip of styrene to each wing.

(If you see a double post, sorry. After posting I dediced to alter it, so I copied it and deleted the original. Now the forum overview showed 7 post, last one being guitarlute101's, but I could see the 8th, but with no chance to edit or delete. So I posted this one, just to be sure)