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World War II: Germany
Aircraft of Germany in WWII.
Hosted by Rowan Baylis
Hs 126 Vs Bf 109 F-2
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Posted: Friday, March 02, 2007 - 04:50 PM UTC
Looks superb as always!
That plexiglass wing alignment techinque looks interesting. Do you mark the the plexiglass so you know where the struts will go, then glue the struts to the fuselage or how are you doing it?
Does the real wing have any kind of locators for the struts?

You're quite a brave fellow for tackling the wing after almost finishing the fuselage. I would have dryfitted the parts like crazy and probably glued on the struts (if possible) right after getting the fuselage construction ready. I have noticed that thinking "it will fight" is sure to cause chronical fit problems for me...
TedMamere
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Posted: Friday, March 02, 2007 - 07:53 PM UTC

Quoted Text

That plexiglass wing alignment techinque looks interesting. Do you mark the the plexiglass so you know where the struts will go, then glue the struts to the fuselage or how are you doing it?
Does the real wing have any kind of locators for the struts?


Hi Eetu!

Yes, that's how I do. Basically, the plexiglass is a replacement for the wing. I drill the holes in the exact same locations and test fit/glue the struts. It is much easier to work with something transparent as you can see what you do. For the Hs 126 I cheated a little I filled the locator holes so I can drill my own ones in the wing later for a better fit.
Right now I'm still fighting with the Henschel's upper wing... I hope there wil be not too much casualties!

The Bf 109 F-2 is finished though...











My conclusion about ICM's model is that it's a nice model. Not really for beginners because of a rather complex part's breakout but ideal for someone wanting to have a nice Bf 109 without having to pay to much for it. For Messerschmitt specialists it won't replace Hasegawa's version because some areas are not very convincing (cockpit, wheels, overdone fabric structure etc...) However, it's perfect to try out new techniques (that's what I did) and it features a detailled engine which the other kit don't have. Good is when you have some replacement spare parts. I used an instrument panel and an armor plate from an Hasegawa kit and the wheels are from an Academy kit.

Jean-Luc
lampie
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Posted: Friday, March 02, 2007 - 08:10 PM UTC
Top Job Jean Luc.
I love that snakeskin scheme.
I must admit Im a little in awe of your airbrushing skills!
Nige
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Posted: Friday, March 02, 2007 - 08:51 PM UTC

Quoted Text

For Messerschmitt specialists it won't replace Hasegawa's version because some areas are not very convincing (cockpit, wheels, overdone fabric structure etc...)


Hello Jean-Luc

Well my friend, here you might be wrong. the expert maybe will do some kind of kit bashing to utilitize the new more correct fuselage ... when you compare it you will notice it is higher than the Hasegawa ...

back to your models .. outstanding as always ... and you see although I had an early start I am still far away from finishing it ...

I have ordered the Eduard masks for it, as the panel lines are not very pronounced on the canopy.
Also I hope to get LifeLike's Bf 109 pt 2 soon (with Hans Philipp's "white 9")



BTW there is also a Hs 126 built up in the latest SAMI ... seems they got a review sample (selected, very good parts) ...

cheers

Steffen
TedMamere
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Posted: Friday, March 02, 2007 - 10:38 PM UTC
Hi all!


Quoted Text

Well my friend, here you might be wrong. the expert maybe will do some kind of kit bashing to utilitize the new more correct fuselage ... when you compare it you will notice it is higher than the Hasegawa ...


Well I hope the experts have also noticed that the ICM Bf 109's fuselage shape is more "squarish" when compared to the Hasegawa one, at least the rear, from the cockpit to the tail. I don't know if this is what you meant by more correct fuselage. Anyway, if I compare the shape of the fuselage (not the dimensions) I think Hasegawa's interpretation seems closer to the reality (see picture below)... but I'm far from being an expert...





I'm looking forward to see our "white 9". How do you plan to tackle that "snake" camouflage?


Quoted Text

BTW there is also a Hs 126 built up in the latest SAMI ... seems they got a review sample (selected, very good parts) ...


Doh! I wanted to be the first modeler in the world to finish the FM Hs 126! :-)
More seriously, do you have the new SAMI? I was at my book shop today but they didn't had the last issue... ... dissapointed I bought a book about the F4U Corsair!


Quoted Text

I must admit Im a little in awe of your airbrushing skills!


Nigel, it is not that much the airbrushing but more the Blu-Tac/pastels technique which helped me achieve this result. It's because my airbrushing skills are not that good that I have to find alternative solutions.

Still struggling with the Hs 126 wing!

Jean-Luc
alpha_tango
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Posted: Saturday, March 03, 2007 - 12:12 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Well I hope the experts have also noticed that the ICM Bf 109's fuselage shape is more "squarish" when compared to the Hasegawa one, at least the rear, from the cockpit to the tail. I don't know if this is what you meant by more correct fuselage. Anyway, if I compare the shape of the fuselage (not the dimensions) I think Hasegawa's interpretation seems closer to the reality (see picture below)... but I'm far from being an expert...





Hi Jean-Luc

I was just pulling your leg, but still I am not convinced the Hasegawa is better (accuracy) .... it is easier to build.

Your photo does not prove anything .... I think while the ICM is too "squarish" the Hasegawa is too "eggish" and it has the dimensional issue (and more):

http://www.geocities.jp/yoyuso/bf109f/bf109fe.html

(there is always someone better)

The good thing at the ICM is that the edge is where you normally have an "optical edge"* on the real a/c, so it is not that obvious (as your fine model shows)

(*i do not know if that makes sense, you as an art teacher can surely explain that better)

Somewhere I've seen a picture of the aft fuselage from the inside, which shows how it really looks .. cannot find it (as I wrote in the magazines thread :-) )

best wishes

Steffen
TedMamere
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Posted: Saturday, March 03, 2007 - 12:41 AM UTC

Quoted Text

I was just pulling your leg, but still I am not convinced the Hasegawa is better (accuracy) .... it is easier to build.


Hi again Steffen!

You are probably right, I should have said the Hasegawa kit gives a more precise and detailed model, not more accurate.

Wow that link is very interesting. I looked at my Tamiya Bf 109 E model and I found it was somewhere between "squarish" and "eggish" :-) Perhaps the best is to take a little from Hasegawa, Tamiya, ICM, Hobbycraft, Fujimi etc... and mix it to get the perfect 109. It's fascinating how guys (I don't mean necessarily you) are going so far into detail! Cut the Hasegawa fuselage in pieces (as if there wasn't already enough parts) to get the it 1mm higher! I guess there are probably as many ways to build a model than there are modelers...

I don't have 3 view plans of the Me 109 with cross sections, do you have some? Oh well, if you don't have some it's not that important after all, is it?

Jean-Luc
alpha_tango
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Posted: Saturday, March 03, 2007 - 12:51 AM UTC
Hello again


Quoted Text

It's fascinating how guys (I don't mean you) are going so far into detail!


What kinda compliment is that? .... :-) :-) :-) :-)


Quoted Text

I don't have 3 view plans of the Me 109 with cross sections, do you have some? Oh well, if you don't have some it's not that important after all, is it?

Jean-Luc


I have, but (BUT!) I do not know If I can trust them (thats why I did not use them for our discussion .. despite I have to find them in my "collection") ... I have no blue prints from any Bf 109 manufacturer ... but who has..

best wishes

Steffen
TedMamere
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Posted: Saturday, March 03, 2007 - 01:14 AM UTC

Quoted Text


Quoted Text

It's fascinating how guys (I don't mean you) are going so far into detail!


What kinda compliment is that? .... :-) :-) :-) :-)


Steffen! Sorry! :-)

Yes, after I wrote this passage, I realized it could be misinterpreted, so I changed it a little. What I mean is that you are able to build a kit out of the box (Wyvern) without nitpicking about accuracy and all, simply for the fun. Other builder just can't live with these damn inaccuracies... which is not a problem neither! As I said everybody can enjoy the hobby the way he/she wants!

Jean-Luc
alpha_tango
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Posted: Saturday, March 03, 2007 - 01:20 AM UTC


Ich habe dich schon richtig verstanden ... ich baue nur scheiß Modelle und kümmere mich nicht um irgendwelche störenden Vorbilder

cheers

Steffen
TedMamere
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Posted: Saturday, March 03, 2007 - 02:27 AM UTC

Quoted Text

ich baue nur scheiß Modelle


Hallo Steffen!

Es ist besser ich sage nichts mehr! :-) Sonst grabe ich mein eigenes Grab noch! Scheiße das kann ich auch nicht sagen, sonst wird das auch missverstanden...

Jean-Luc
alpha_tango
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Posted: Saturday, March 03, 2007 - 02:45 AM UTC
Hallo Jean-Luc

ist es nicht schön, wie man hier mit deutschen Kraftausdrücken um sich werfen kann .. in englisch wären da sicher schon einige (autocensored) Einträge dabei gewesen :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)

Im Ernst: ich hatte das schon gleich richtig verstanden.

viele Grüße

Steffen
TedMamere
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Posted: Saturday, March 03, 2007 - 02:50 AM UTC

Quoted Text

ist es nicht schön, wie man hier mit deutschen Kraftausdrücken um sich werfen kann .. in englisch wären da sicher schon einige (autocensored) Einträge dabei gewesen :-) :-) :-) :-) :-)


Hallo Steffen!

Ich nehme an Babel fish läuft auf vollen touren! :-) :-) :-) :-)

Jean-Luc
Removed by original poster on 03/04/07 - 18:07:33 (GMT).
alpha_tango
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Posted: Saturday, March 03, 2007 - 04:07 PM UTC
Hier ist mal mein Scheiß-Modell

ham-fisted Steffens home improvement

10 minutes with a file and 20 minutes with sanding sticks and scriber saws ....

cheers

Steffen
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Posted: Saturday, March 03, 2007 - 11:19 PM UTC



Hi Steffen!

I can't get the quicktime movie to work, now you've made me curious!

Below are picture of the Hs 126 with the wing...





As you can see, filler was needed on every strut, I even had to reduce some of them. The result is not perfect but acceptable if you don't look too closely. I used NONE of the locator holes on the fuselage and the wing!

Jean-luc
alpha_tango
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Posted: Saturday, March 03, 2007 - 11:52 PM UTC
Hi Jean-Luc

it is just a short mpg and your browser should be able to display it (if you have allowed it) else just rightclick and save and watch with your favourite media player ..

cheers

Steffen

P.S. could you please contact a tech guy of Aeroscale .. I have double posted my last post and then removed the wrong post .. I can still see it, but no longer edit or remove .. seems to be a similar problem as we had some time ago?
TedMamere
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Posted: Sunday, March 04, 2007 - 01:16 AM UTC

Quoted Text

it is just a short mpg and your browser should be able to display it (if you have allowed it) else just rightclick and save and watch with your favourite media player ..


Hi again Steffen!

I made what you said but it's still not working

Jean-Luc
alpha_tango
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Posted: Sunday, March 04, 2007 - 01:41 AM UTC
Hi J-L

strange .. I tried it several times an it worked ... I'll upload the original file to my website and sent you a link via PM .. it is much too large for such a small vid, but as you refuse to see the small one

cheers

Steffen
TedMamere
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Posted: Sunday, March 04, 2007 - 03:25 AM UTC
Hi Steffen!

Thanks!

This time it worked fine! So the ICM fuselage is more accurate than the Hasegawa one... if you sand it to shape! :-)

Jean-Luc
alpha_tango
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Posted: Sunday, March 04, 2007 - 03:41 AM UTC

Quoted Text

Hi Steffen!

Thanks!

This time it worked fine! So the ICM fuselage is more accurate than the Hasegawa one... if you sand it to shape! :-)

Jean-Luc


Hi Captain

it still is not as I did not sand the lower edges ..... it is no Bf 109 Egg plane :-) :-) :-) :-)

... and as you stated I do not care about accuracy at all ...

cheers

Steffen
TedMamere
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Posted: Sunday, March 04, 2007 - 10:58 AM UTC

Quoted Text

... and as you stated I do not care about accuracy at all ...


This is going to follow me all my life! Oh well, I deserved it I guess! :-)

Jean-Luc
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Posted: Sunday, March 04, 2007 - 06:54 PM UTC
Ok, just to comment on your Bf 109 - and stay out of the German discussion
As always great work. The faults in the Bf 109 kit does not scare me so much, but that wing problem on the HS 126 would leave me demoralised and sleepless.

BTW I also have some cuts of the BF 109 body, but not from the manufacturer, just from Kagero.

Looking forward to see what Steffen can make out of the Bf 109.

Thanks for sharing - great work.
alpha_tango
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Posted: Sunday, March 04, 2007 - 07:11 PM UTC
Thanks Jesper

for posting in this thread .. it was starting to become a privat conversation between the Captain and me .. and only because he insists that I am not able to build a model

Remark: The German part is not necassary for this thread .. just a little fooling because of Jean-Lucs remark:
Quoted Text

It's fascinating how guys (I don't mean you) are going so far into detail!


I think Jean-Luc did an outstanding job on both models ... though the Henschel looks strange in the last picture, but I think this is a distorsion of the camera.

Do not be too curious about my result .. I will hardly reach Jean-Luc's level of craftsmenship and artistic talent ...

BTW did Kagero already do Monographs on the Bf 109 F series? I thought only G's ...

best wishes

Steffen
TedMamere
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Posted: Tuesday, March 06, 2007 - 10:04 PM UTC

Quoted Text

... though the Henschel looks strange in the last picture, but I think this is a distorsion of the camera.


Hi Steffen!

Or maybe it's because the canopy was still masked. Maybe it looks better on the following pictures...











The Hs 126 was a big single engined aircraft as you can see when compared to the Bf 109...



Well, that's it... at least for me. I'm looking forward to see the other Bf 109 F-2s... or Hs 126s

My conclusion about Fonderie Miniature's kit? I gave it 50% in the review (see here ) and I think it was fair as the modeler has to do the other 50% himself!
The pluses of the kit are the nicely detailled interior and engine, the overall dimensions and shape and the fact that it is the only injected kit of the Hs 126 in 1/48 scale!
The minuses are the bad molding quality of some parts (again see review), the thickness of some parts (wings, rudder, horizontale tailplane etc...), the engine's cowling and flaps (brrrrrr!), the vacuformed canopy (pretty rough), the smaller struts, the vague locators (all of them), the panel lines, the surface detail etc...
With the HiPM Vindicator and the Special Hobby Ju 87 A kits, this was the most challenging kit I've built so far.

I found the latest SAMI in my book store today and as Steffen said, there is a build article about FM's Hs 126 in it. I've read it and the conclusion was: "... The FM kit faithfully reproduces the real machine, is easy to build, and can be turned into a magnificient model..." This sounds like misleading publicity for me!

Jean-Luc
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