NOTE: All pictures in this thread are "thumbnails" -- click on them for a larger picture if you desire.
I have selected a combat from 25 April 1917, except in this case, the ace is the loser. If you followed discussions over in the campaign Forum thread you'll know there is some controversy over this action and no little conflicting information. I have selected the information I like and here we go -- my interpretations are as good as any.
On 25 April 1917 at 0815AM (0915 German time) near the towns of Oppy/Gavrelle, Vizefeldwebel Sebastian Festner, an NCO pilot of Jasta 11 with 12 kills, attacked Sopwith 1-1/2 Strutters of 43 Sqn, RFC, and was shot down and killed. The victors were Lt C.R. O'Brien (pilot) and 2Lt J.L. Dickson (gunner). Although Dickson apparently fired the fatal shots, both received credit -- their 3rd and 2nd victories respectively.
Vzfw Festner's aircraft. All sources seem to agree that he flew Albatros D.III 2251/16. There are no known pictures of this aircraft and only the Kagero Jasta 11 book has gone out on a limb and published a color drawing. Right, wrong, or unknown, I'm going to use that as my guide -- it is reasonable given the sketchy descriptions in other books. Fortunately my chosen color scheme is simple, except the factory finish nose.
I am using the Eduard 1/48 Albatros D.III Limited Edition kit, and also have the Profi-Pack version. This is going to be a fairly simple build -- I'll use some but not all of the extra goodies. These two kits certainly are nice and they come with a lot of markings options.
O'Brien/Dickson's aircraft. A 2-seater Strutter, serial A8232. I have no photo of this specific aircraft but 43 Sqn did not adopt it's pyramid squadron marking until later summer so it is reasonable to assume a simple PC-10/CDL scheme with typical national markings. In 43 Sqn, as with many others, aircraft were marked with a letter for the flight and a number for the aircraft within the flight. These varied in size, location, and "font". I do not know what flight O'Brien or Dickson were part of, nor the aircraft number so I am simply going to use the B5 that comes with the kit.
I am using the Roden 1/48 Strutter kit - this is the one with clear plastic fuselage and flying surfaces will supposedly enable one to achieve true "see-thru" of doped fabric aircraft. Don't hold your breath ... in fact I've probably blown that in the fuselage already by spraying very very light grey as inside fabric. Regardless of my thoughts on clear plastic, this is a typically good Roden multi-media kit.
An afternote. Festner we know about. O'Brien, in a different aircraft with a different gunner, was shot down on 1 May 1917 and became a POW. He apparently survived captivity but I know nothing else of him. I can find no mention of J.L. Dickson in casualty lists and so assume he also survived the war but I know nothing more of his service or life after the war.
Please note that I have some other priorities on the workbench right now, so this will not progress very fast for a while. But just to show that plastic is being harmed, here's my pile of plastic with some paint applied ...
Questions, comments, etc ???
John
Early Aviation
Discuss World War I and the early years of aviation thru 1934.
Discuss World War I and the early years of aviation thru 1934.
Hosted by Jim Starkweather
Bloody April: The Death of Sebastian Festner
jRatz
North Carolina, United States
Joined: March 06, 2004
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Joined: March 06, 2004
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Posted: Monday, March 05, 2007 - 07:16 AM UTC
JackFlash
Colorado, United States
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Posted: Monday, March 05, 2007 - 08:18 AM UTC
Greeting JRatz!
Very nice start! One word of caution. The camouflage on this machine was in the 3 colour format. dk grn, light green and Venetian red (red brown.) The undersurfaces were of course in lt. blue. Member Dan San Abbott's forte is the the Albatros D.III camouflage. You may want to check with him for the sequence and layout.
Very nice start! One word of caution. The camouflage on this machine was in the 3 colour format. dk grn, light green and Venetian red (red brown.) The undersurfaces were of course in lt. blue. Member Dan San Abbott's forte is the the Albatros D.III camouflage. You may want to check with him for the sequence and layout.
Kitboy
Gelderland, Netherlands
Joined: July 20, 2006
KitMaker: 258 posts
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Joined: July 20, 2006
KitMaker: 258 posts
AeroScale: 256 posts
Posted: Monday, March 05, 2007 - 11:43 PM UTC
Funny picture your last one. I do wonder what you make of the Strutter with its clear plastic. Got one on my stash. Understood that Rode got so many bad critics for it, they changed it into normal plastic.
Greetings, Nico
Greetings, Nico
jRatz
North Carolina, United States
Joined: March 06, 2004
KitMaker: 1,171 posts
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Joined: March 06, 2004
KitMaker: 1,171 posts
AeroScale: 151 posts
Posted: Tuesday, March 06, 2007 - 07:26 AM UTC
Stephen (and Nico):
I got this from DSA, over on The Aerodrome I think, and I plan to adjust the Kagara colors accordingly (well within limits of what I have in paint available or can sorta mix) ...
All Albatros built machines in following serial number batch had their upper surfaces painted in an asymetric three color camouflage of : Dark olive green, pale whitish green and rust brown. The rudder was painted the same color as the central color on the tailplane. The trailing edge of the rudder was straight, not rounded. The under surfaces and wheel covers were painted sky blue. Fuselage were shellacked and varnished in warm yellow color, they were not stained. All Struts, cowlings and all external metal parts were painted grey, tinged green.
1. 400 Alb.D.III 1910/16 to 2309/16.
Nico,
The concept was interesting, but I think it takes more painting skill than I have. Also it makes for brittle plastic and, especially on tailplane, a much thicker plastic than usual ... It won't be all that pretty ...
John
I got this from DSA, over on The Aerodrome I think, and I plan to adjust the Kagara colors accordingly (well within limits of what I have in paint available or can sorta mix) ...
All Albatros built machines in following serial number batch had their upper surfaces painted in an asymetric three color camouflage of : Dark olive green, pale whitish green and rust brown. The rudder was painted the same color as the central color on the tailplane. The trailing edge of the rudder was straight, not rounded. The under surfaces and wheel covers were painted sky blue. Fuselage were shellacked and varnished in warm yellow color, they were not stained. All Struts, cowlings and all external metal parts were painted grey, tinged green.
1. 400 Alb.D.III 1910/16 to 2309/16.
Nico,
The concept was interesting, but I think it takes more painting skill than I have. Also it makes for brittle plastic and, especially on tailplane, a much thicker plastic than usual ... It won't be all that pretty ...
John
JackFlash
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 25, 2004
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Posted: Friday, March 30, 2007 - 02:54 PM UTC
Tick tick tick... John! Oh John! Now where is he...? His area of the hangar is quiet.
jRatz
North Carolina, United States
Joined: March 06, 2004
KitMaker: 1,171 posts
AeroScale: 151 posts
Joined: March 06, 2004
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AeroScale: 151 posts
Posted: Sunday, April 01, 2007 - 05:24 AM UTC
Buried, struggling, etc. 3 IPMS reviews behind, review posting on IPMS got behind, some major stuff going on in the town that I'm involved with, all the usual real life stuff ...
I'm mostly done the interior of the Albie, but a couple pieces a day just isn't progress. I had hoped to have it buttoned up 3 weeks ago so I could start the Strutter interior.
I will keep plugging away ...
John
I'm mostly done the interior of the Albie, but a couple pieces a day just isn't progress. I had hoped to have it buttoned up 3 weeks ago so I could start the Strutter interior.
I will keep plugging away ...
John
jRatz
North Carolina, United States
Joined: March 06, 2004
KitMaker: 1,171 posts
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Joined: March 06, 2004
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Posted: Sunday, April 08, 2007 - 05:57 AM UTC
8 April Update (click on images for larger)
Just to show I haven't been completely idle, just too darn busy, here are the pix of my Albatros cockpit.
After a double check that I haven't left anything too obvious out, I'll go ahead & seal up the fuselage.
I then intend to shift to the Strutter and get it to roughly the same state of build ...
Sorry, but this isn't going at all the way I planned ...
John
Just to show I haven't been completely idle, just too darn busy, here are the pix of my Albatros cockpit.
After a double check that I haven't left anything too obvious out, I'll go ahead & seal up the fuselage.
I then intend to shift to the Strutter and get it to roughly the same state of build ...
Sorry, but this isn't going at all the way I planned ...
John
Kitboy
Gelderland, Netherlands
Joined: July 20, 2006
KitMaker: 258 posts
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Joined: July 20, 2006
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Posted: Sunday, April 08, 2007 - 08:13 PM UTC
That looks quit familiar to me
Carry on building
Nico (reaching end of part one; the Albatros)
Carry on building
Nico (reaching end of part one; the Albatros)
jRatz
North Carolina, United States
Joined: March 06, 2004
KitMaker: 1,171 posts
AeroScale: 151 posts
Joined: March 06, 2004
KitMaker: 1,171 posts
AeroScale: 151 posts
Posted: Monday, April 09, 2007 - 06:27 AM UTC
Nico,
Don't do what I did -- Stephen pointed out that I got the magneto switch (the black assembly on the RHS wall) on the wrong fuselage side & sure enough when I went back to the instructions & looked closely I could see it. Wish they had a "This end forward" arrow. Anyway, it's gonna stay right where it is ...
John
Don't do what I did -- Stephen pointed out that I got the magneto switch (the black assembly on the RHS wall) on the wrong fuselage side & sure enough when I went back to the instructions & looked closely I could see it. Wish they had a "This end forward" arrow. Anyway, it's gonna stay right where it is ...
John
jRatz
North Carolina, United States
Joined: March 06, 2004
KitMaker: 1,171 posts
AeroScale: 151 posts
Joined: March 06, 2004
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AeroScale: 151 posts
Posted: Monday, April 30, 2007 - 06:09 AM UTC
OK, fuselage is closed up, tail is on, lower wings are on, landing gear is prepped.
I'm starting to paint the fuselage.
And the wings, and now I'm confused about the order of colors. I have a post from DSA that gives colors as Dark Olive Green, Pale Whitish Green, Rust Brown on top wing and I assume that runs from left to right.
Roden color charts, many others, have different order. I note Stephen & Nico seem to follow the DSA sequence. What is correct and how can so many references have so many different schemes ?
Now you know why I do British -- PC10/12 up, CDL under - easy ...
Thanks,
John
I'm starting to paint the fuselage.
And the wings, and now I'm confused about the order of colors. I have a post from DSA that gives colors as Dark Olive Green, Pale Whitish Green, Rust Brown on top wing and I assume that runs from left to right.
Roden color charts, many others, have different order. I note Stephen & Nico seem to follow the DSA sequence. What is correct and how can so many references have so many different schemes ?
Now you know why I do British -- PC10/12 up, CDL under - easy ...
Thanks,
John
Kitboy
Gelderland, Netherlands
Joined: July 20, 2006
KitMaker: 258 posts
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Joined: July 20, 2006
KitMaker: 258 posts
AeroScale: 256 posts
Posted: Monday, April 30, 2007 - 01:41 PM UTC
As if PC10/PC12 is easy!!!! Wow, I can hardly recall the number of fierce arguments wether PC10 is brown or green
As far as the DIII went, I simply stuck to Stephen's findings
Greetings, Nico
As far as the DIII went, I simply stuck to Stephen's findings
Greetings, Nico
JackFlash
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,669 posts
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Joined: January 25, 2004
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Posted: Monday, April 30, 2007 - 03:39 PM UTC
Quoted Text
OK, fuselage is closed up, tail is on, lower wings are on, landing gear is prepped.
I'm starting to paint the fuselage.
And the wings, and now I'm confused about the order of colors. I have a post from DSA that gives colors as Dark Olive Green, Pale Whitish Green, Rust Brown on top wing and I assume that runs from left to right.
Roden color charts, many others, have different order. I note Stephen & Nico seem to follow the DSA sequence. What is correct and how can so many references have so many different schemes ?
Now you know why I do British -- PC10/12 up, CDL under - easy ...
Thanks,
John
Hey John,
There is some evidence that the camouflage pattern or the sequnce of colours was changed or completely flipped every 50 or so machines.
jRatz
North Carolina, United States
Joined: March 06, 2004
KitMaker: 1,171 posts
AeroScale: 151 posts
Joined: March 06, 2004
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AeroScale: 151 posts
Posted: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 06:15 AM UTC
Quoted Text
Hey John,
There is some evidence that the camouflage pattern or the sequnce of colours was changed or completely flipped every 50 or so machines.
My serial is 2251/16, what would you guess that to be - Dark Olive on the Left or the Right ?
Thx, John
JackFlash
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 25, 2004
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Posted: Tuesday, May 01, 2007 - 10:46 AM UTC
I'll have Dan San Abott ring in on that. This is his forte.
JackFlash
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,669 posts
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Joined: January 25, 2004
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Posted: Friday, June 01, 2007 - 11:46 PM UTC
John you still out there? Waggle your wings sir!
jRatz
North Carolina, United States
Joined: March 06, 2004
KitMaker: 1,171 posts
AeroScale: 151 posts
Joined: March 06, 2004
KitMaker: 1,171 posts
AeroScale: 151 posts
Posted: Saturday, June 02, 2007 - 01:52 PM UTC
Yes, I have an assembled fuselage with lower wings attached.
I have the plywood front fuselage painted, the red rear fuselage painted, and the green stripe -- and some leakage thru the masking to fix. I have a paint batch mixed for what I understand is primered metal up front. I'm gonna mix some light blue under-wing colors & the top of wing colors, any day now ...
I'm really buried with some other things, and my bench is not getting a lot of attention right now ... Strutter is really dormant ... Let's not be real hard & fast on ending dates ....
John
I have the plywood front fuselage painted, the red rear fuselage painted, and the green stripe -- and some leakage thru the masking to fix. I have a paint batch mixed for what I understand is primered metal up front. I'm gonna mix some light blue under-wing colors & the top of wing colors, any day now ...
I'm really buried with some other things, and my bench is not getting a lot of attention right now ... Strutter is really dormant ... Let's not be real hard & fast on ending dates ....
John
JackFlash
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,669 posts
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Joined: January 25, 2004
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Posted: Saturday, June 02, 2007 - 06:29 PM UTC
Greetings John;
You and Nico seem to be in the same boat as it were. Would it help if we moved the finish date to July 31st?
You and Nico seem to be in the same boat as it were. Would it help if we moved the finish date to July 31st?
JackFlash
Colorado, United States
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,669 posts
AeroScale: 11,011 posts
Joined: January 25, 2004
KitMaker: 11,669 posts
AeroScale: 11,011 posts
Posted: Sunday, June 03, 2007 - 01:21 PM UTC
Quoted Text
Yes, I have an assembled fuselage with lower wings attached.
I have the plywood front fuselage painted, the red rear fuselage painted, and the green stripe -- and some leakage thru the masking to fix. I have a paint batch mixed for what I understand is primered metal up front. I'm gonna mix some light blue under-wing colors & the top of wing colors, any day now ...
I'm really buried with some other things, and my bench is not getting a lot of attention right now ... Strutter is really dormant ... Let's not be real hard & fast on ending dates ....John
Hey John check this out.
Quoted Text
Allright then mr. Lawson, you put the finger a bit where it hurts. To be honest i was neglecting this project a bit too much, but hereby I make the promise I will start right back on it this week.
So if the the date of finish will be moved up to the 31st of july I will do my very best to get the project finished by then.
Greetings, Nico
DONE!!!
jRatz
North Carolina, United States
Joined: March 06, 2004
KitMaker: 1,171 posts
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Joined: March 06, 2004
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Posted: Sunday, June 03, 2007 - 02:18 PM UTC
All I can promise is valiant effort ...
John
John
jRatz
North Carolina, United States
Joined: March 06, 2004
KitMaker: 1,171 posts
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Joined: March 06, 2004
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Posted: Saturday, June 30, 2007 - 01:10 PM UTC
Sorry, I am formally dropping out. I have not been near my bench in a month and when I get there, I have other priorities.
I regret having to do this because I certainly enjoyed the research effort that I had to put into this GB and I highly recommend a similar format for other GB -- well done, Stephen !!!
Again, my apologies
John
I regret having to do this because I certainly enjoyed the research effort that I had to put into this GB and I highly recommend a similar format for other GB -- well done, Stephen !!!
Again, my apologies
John
JackFlash
Colorado, United States
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Posted: Saturday, June 30, 2007 - 02:09 PM UTC
No worries John. Life sort of takes over once in awhile. Were still here and with you no matter what comes.